Dodgeballz
06-23-2005, 06:56 PM
Man , there is a picture of this ugly fella on my license :D
Anyway, no trip for nachos til my wife gets hers . :hyper: :hyper:
Anyway, no trip for nachos til my wife gets hers . :hyper: :hyper:
View Full Version : got my CCW license today
Kelly Drown
06-23-2005, 07:25 PM
Congratulations! Welcome to the CCW club. :)
Glockusmaximus
06-23-2005, 07:52 PM
+2 congrats!
DrBaker
06-23-2005, 08:26 PM
Now you have a good excuse to get more guns.
J.P.
06-23-2005, 08:28 PM
Great,now your are *paying* to excercise a RIGHT.
What is the world comming to?
J/K (sort of)
congrats!
What is the world comming to?
J/K (sort of)
congrats!
Michael Brown
06-23-2005, 09:30 PM
J.P.
Your statement raises an issue I've diuscussed with a lot of people over the years regarding the 2nd Amendment.
I believe that the ability to OWN firearms is a right but the ability to carry them in public where my family is the backstop is a priviledge that relies on a minimal level of education and competence.
What does everyone think?
Michael Brown
Your statement raises an issue I've diuscussed with a lot of people over the years regarding the 2nd Amendment.
I believe that the ability to OWN firearms is a right but the ability to carry them in public where my family is the backstop is a priviledge that relies on a minimal level of education and competence.
What does everyone think?
Michael Brown
J.P.
06-23-2005, 10:55 PM
I disagree with you on this one Michael.
The way I read it is..."Keep *AND* Bear arms"
"Bear" meaning to use or carry.
I just don't see anyway around it (nor want to) unless the Constitution is re-written.
Having said that,I do believe that training is a good thing and everyone should have some.
Really,you can never have enough.
I'm actually suprised at your response,Michael,because criminals don't follow the rules anyway and good guys don't really have a large track record of shooting innocents in public gunfights.......?or do they?
The way I read it is..."Keep *AND* Bear arms"
"Bear" meaning to use or carry.
I just don't see anyway around it (nor want to) unless the Constitution is re-written.
Having said that,I do believe that training is a good thing and everyone should have some.
Really,you can never have enough.
I'm actually suprised at your response,Michael,because criminals don't follow the rules anyway and good guys don't really have a large track record of shooting innocents in public gunfights.......?or do they?
walpur6isknight
06-23-2005, 11:08 PM
your point is a valid one, mr brown. however i think if we openly had the right to carry firearms with no kinds of liscensing, alot more folks would just tote them around.
which would deter most criminals.
but i do understand.
i doubt ill ever get a ccw liscense.
hey, theres always one in the car, with muffs and earplugs, and eye protection and several hundred rounds of ammo, oh and a cleaning kit, because i am going to go shooting. ;)
lol
seriously though, i dont feel the need to carry one on my person. ive never been a victim of a crime, and your chances are still pretty slim.
besides i have an extra wallet they can have (the criminals).
they wont find much in it but hey, i hope it works.
which would deter most criminals.
but i do understand.
i doubt ill ever get a ccw liscense.
hey, theres always one in the car, with muffs and earplugs, and eye protection and several hundred rounds of ammo, oh and a cleaning kit, because i am going to go shooting. ;)
lol
seriously though, i dont feel the need to carry one on my person. ive never been a victim of a crime, and your chances are still pretty slim.
besides i have an extra wallet they can have (the criminals).
they wont find much in it but hey, i hope it works.
J.P.
06-23-2005, 11:39 PM
Of course if you are an idiot that should obvoiously preclude you from carrying a gun.
kjones99
06-24-2005, 12:31 AM
Of course if you are an idiot that should obvoiously preclude you from carrying a gun.
well, it doesn't keep them from driving a car...
well, it doesn't keep them from driving a car...
J.P.
06-24-2005, 12:47 AM
i doubt ill ever get a ccw liscense.
hey, theres always one in the car, with muffs and earplugs, and eye protection and several hundred rounds of ammo, oh and a cleaning kit, because i am going to go shooting. ;)
shooting or circumventing?
hey, theres always one in the car, with muffs and earplugs, and eye protection and several hundred rounds of ammo, oh and a cleaning kit, because i am going to go shooting. ;)
shooting or circumventing?
J.P.
06-24-2005, 12:48 AM
well, it doesn't keep them from driving a car...
Excellent point!
Frankly,if I had a choice of the two,I'd rather have people walking around wearing guns than driving in cars.
Excellent point!
Frankly,if I had a choice of the two,I'd rather have people walking around wearing guns than driving in cars.
Michael Brown
06-24-2005, 01:09 AM
I don't know J.P. I think the Federalist papers make it seem as though "bear" is specifically defined as for the purposes of resisting the government if it becomes tyrannical.
I think the law of individual self-defense is answerable to a higher authority than the Constitution.
I think the license should be free but I still believe it to be a revokable privilege. I think charging money is wrong, except for the requirement to obtain training and incidentals like fingerprinting. The processing doesn't cost $125 in my opinion.
That said, if you have to demonstrate minimal competence to operate a car on a public road, then you should also have to do so to carry a firearm on a public road.
Michael Brown
I think the law of individual self-defense is answerable to a higher authority than the Constitution.
I think the license should be free but I still believe it to be a revokable privilege. I think charging money is wrong, except for the requirement to obtain training and incidentals like fingerprinting. The processing doesn't cost $125 in my opinion.
That said, if you have to demonstrate minimal competence to operate a car on a public road, then you should also have to do so to carry a firearm on a public road.
Michael Brown
kjones99
06-24-2005, 02:08 AM
how do you feel about open carry? personally, i think it would have a major decrease on crime. thoughts??
straight69jack
06-24-2005, 02:18 AM
Honestly
We have wackos out there now shooting cause someone cut the off on the highway. Man there would be shootings everyday for some reason or another, atleast now its either trained CCWers carrying or a crazy BG.
If it was legal to carry with no formal training,,,, I dont even want to think about it. It would be ridicioulous
We have wackos out there now shooting cause someone cut the off on the highway. Man there would be shootings everyday for some reason or another, atleast now its either trained CCWers carrying or a crazy BG.
If it was legal to carry with no formal training,,,, I dont even want to think about it. It would be ridicioulous
DrBaker
06-24-2005, 04:50 AM
I don't know J.P. I think the Federalist papers make it seem as though "bear" is specifically defined as for the purposes of resisting the government if it becomes tyrannical.
I think the law of individual self-defense is answerable to a higher authority than the Constitution.
I think the license should be free but I still believe it to be a revokable privilege. I think charging money is wrong, except for the requirement to obtain training and incidentals like fingerprinting. The processing doesn't cost $125 in my opinion.
That said, if you have to demonstrate minimal competence to operate a car on a public road, then you should also have to do so to carry a firearm on a public road.
Michael Brown
I tend to agree with this post.
I think the law of individual self-defense is answerable to a higher authority than the Constitution.
I think the license should be free but I still believe it to be a revokable privilege. I think charging money is wrong, except for the requirement to obtain training and incidentals like fingerprinting. The processing doesn't cost $125 in my opinion.
That said, if you have to demonstrate minimal competence to operate a car on a public road, then you should also have to do so to carry a firearm on a public road.
Michael Brown
I tend to agree with this post.
J.P.
06-24-2005, 05:23 AM
I don't know J.P. I think the Federalist papers make it seem as though "bear" is specifically defined as for the purposes of resisting the government if it becomes tyrannical.
I think the law of individual self-defense is answerable to a higher authority than the Constitution.
I think the license should be free but I still believe it to be a revokable privilege. I think charging money is wrong, except for the requirement to obtain training and incidentals like fingerprinting. The processing doesn't cost $125 in my opinion.
That said, if you have to demonstrate minimal competence to operate a car on a public road, then you should also have to do so to carry a firearm on a public road.
Michael Brown
We'll just have to disagree on the interpetation,I suppose.
"Resiting a tyrannical government" is exactly why we have gun laws.
That is a concept that has long since passed.Ain't gonna happen.
This government gets away with a lot more that our Founding Fathers ever would have stood for.
Higher authority...I'm with ya' brother. :thumb:
Revokable for what reasons?
Because there was a mixup at DHS and someone was filed as being in arrears on child support payments?
Because a whacko ex-wife convinced a magistrate that she needed a protective order?
National security?
A government whim?
When you are dealing with the government,the sky's the limit.Why settle for the costs of the actual work...how does that pay for pork? $$$
The difference is we drive cars but we don't shoot guns,we carry them.
Obviously there should be swift reprecussions to those that cause harm.
I'm all for training...why doesn't it start in grade school?
Seems to be the only right that is glossed over and dismissed.
You want to bun a flag...sure go right ahead...I'm going to bear arms.
:soapbox:
I think the law of individual self-defense is answerable to a higher authority than the Constitution.
I think the license should be free but I still believe it to be a revokable privilege. I think charging money is wrong, except for the requirement to obtain training and incidentals like fingerprinting. The processing doesn't cost $125 in my opinion.
That said, if you have to demonstrate minimal competence to operate a car on a public road, then you should also have to do so to carry a firearm on a public road.
Michael Brown
We'll just have to disagree on the interpetation,I suppose.
"Resiting a tyrannical government" is exactly why we have gun laws.
That is a concept that has long since passed.Ain't gonna happen.
This government gets away with a lot more that our Founding Fathers ever would have stood for.
Higher authority...I'm with ya' brother. :thumb:
Revokable for what reasons?
Because there was a mixup at DHS and someone was filed as being in arrears on child support payments?
Because a whacko ex-wife convinced a magistrate that she needed a protective order?
National security?
A government whim?
When you are dealing with the government,the sky's the limit.Why settle for the costs of the actual work...how does that pay for pork? $$$
The difference is we drive cars but we don't shoot guns,we carry them.
Obviously there should be swift reprecussions to those that cause harm.
I'm all for training...why doesn't it start in grade school?
Seems to be the only right that is glossed over and dismissed.
You want to bun a flag...sure go right ahead...I'm going to bear arms.
:soapbox:
Kelly Drown
06-24-2005, 07:58 AM
Personally, I agree with Michael to some extent. I think the CCW is indeed an added priviledge. We do have the rights to bear arms, and this state is much more lenient the most other states. You can buy as many as you want, take them all out to the gun range and shoot them, or go hunting with them. The don't really impede those rights. But to carry a handgun concealed from sight, loaded and ready to shoot, in public, and in the city limits where you wouldn't be allowed to carry your shotgun, I think is the priveledge we're paying for.
Where I grew up, in Northern Minnesota, gun safety was a mandatory class when you reached the 6th grade. So is Snowmobile safety. Basically they go over hunting safety and rules very thoroughly. After all, you're likely to be in the same woods as a dozen other hunters, you need to make sure you don't shoot each other. And just about everyone hunts, and I've owned guns since I was 6 years old.
Having said that, I thought the CCW classes were kind of lame. You spend $125 for a 8 hour class, for a guy to reiterate over and over that you are not a cop for 4-6 hours straight. I could have learned everything that I learned in that class from a brochure in 15 minutes. While this wasn't a gun safety class, I do wish they would teach more of it. I have friends that have guns and I see them do stupid things with them all the time... like handing the gun you're looking at back to the owner barrel first. It makes me cringe sometimes.
I DON'T think you should have to pay to renew your CCW license, Unless.... they redo the background check to see if you have any new stuff show up on your record. I'm all for that. If you commit a crime, you loose your right to bear arms. The renewal fee is used for research, not just another way to tax you.
I do think there should be more required training involved in getting your CCW, but not for additional money. After all, the reason for getting your CCW is that you might have to shoot another person. I think the current competency requirements are low for that. One of the women who was in our class was closing her eyes and firing wildly. She managed to hit her own target like once, and several other's targets as well, and that's from 8 feet away on a full body target. She passed too.
-Kelly
Where I grew up, in Northern Minnesota, gun safety was a mandatory class when you reached the 6th grade. So is Snowmobile safety. Basically they go over hunting safety and rules very thoroughly. After all, you're likely to be in the same woods as a dozen other hunters, you need to make sure you don't shoot each other. And just about everyone hunts, and I've owned guns since I was 6 years old.
Having said that, I thought the CCW classes were kind of lame. You spend $125 for a 8 hour class, for a guy to reiterate over and over that you are not a cop for 4-6 hours straight. I could have learned everything that I learned in that class from a brochure in 15 minutes. While this wasn't a gun safety class, I do wish they would teach more of it. I have friends that have guns and I see them do stupid things with them all the time... like handing the gun you're looking at back to the owner barrel first. It makes me cringe sometimes.
I DON'T think you should have to pay to renew your CCW license, Unless.... they redo the background check to see if you have any new stuff show up on your record. I'm all for that. If you commit a crime, you loose your right to bear arms. The renewal fee is used for research, not just another way to tax you.
I do think there should be more required training involved in getting your CCW, but not for additional money. After all, the reason for getting your CCW is that you might have to shoot another person. I think the current competency requirements are low for that. One of the women who was in our class was closing her eyes and firing wildly. She managed to hit her own target like once, and several other's targets as well, and that's from 8 feet away on a full body target. She passed too.
-Kelly
J.P.
06-24-2005, 04:15 PM
But to carry a handgun concealed from sight, loaded and ready to shoot, in public, and in the city limits where you wouldn't be allowed to carry your shotgun, I think is the priveledge we're paying for.
See,cars are far more dangerous than a square citizen carrying a handgun.
Anyone can drive a car,even illegal ailiens.They cause death and destruction.
Although the current requirements for a CWL are very low (agreed) we don't see a rash of people blasting away in public.
There are good and bad people out there...the good ones are afraid of breaking the law.
If you can't afford the fees of the CWL you should still have the right to self defense.
See,cars are far more dangerous than a square citizen carrying a handgun.
Anyone can drive a car,even illegal ailiens.They cause death and destruction.
Although the current requirements for a CWL are very low (agreed) we don't see a rash of people blasting away in public.
There are good and bad people out there...the good ones are afraid of breaking the law.
If you can't afford the fees of the CWL you should still have the right to self defense.
Kelly Drown
06-24-2005, 04:34 PM
And... you have to have your cars licensed, tagged, registered, insured, etc. I agree that cars are far more dangerous than guns are. But driving too is a priviledge we pay for.
If you can't afford the fees of the CWL you should still have the right to self defense.
Ah, but you do in your own home and property. Here's where I partly agree with you though. You do have the right to defend yourself, but you don't have the priviledge of carrying your weapon in public areas without a license. (The license serves as proof you're not a danger - the reason people with CCW's obey the law anyway.) The problem I have with this is that there are those who can't afford this license. But, there are also those who can't afford to drive either, which is also a priviledge. I think it has to be divided clearly into rights and priviledges. Apparently money = priviledge in this society and I don't like that either.
If you can't afford the fees of the CWL you should still have the right to self defense.
Ah, but you do in your own home and property. Here's where I partly agree with you though. You do have the right to defend yourself, but you don't have the priviledge of carrying your weapon in public areas without a license. (The license serves as proof you're not a danger - the reason people with CCW's obey the law anyway.) The problem I have with this is that there are those who can't afford this license. But, there are also those who can't afford to drive either, which is also a priviledge. I think it has to be divided clearly into rights and priviledges. Apparently money = priviledge in this society and I don't like that either.
J.P.
06-24-2005, 05:14 PM
. (The license serves as proof you're not a danger - the reason people with CCW's obey the law anyway.) .
The way I see it,you *automatically* have that right until you've proven yourself unworthy.I'm pretty sure that's what the Founding Father envisioned.
A driver's license doesn't prove you are not a danger.
Most people obey just laws.
Money= privilidge
Birth = Rights
The way I see it,you *automatically* have that right until you've proven yourself unworthy.I'm pretty sure that's what the Founding Father envisioned.
A driver's license doesn't prove you are not a danger.
Most people obey just laws.
Money= privilidge
Birth = Rights
J.P.
06-24-2005, 05:42 PM
I don't know,like I said you don't really want idiots to have guns,or cars,or knives,or anything else.
I just have my mind made up how the Constitution was written and we either follow it or we don't....ya' know?
We wouldn't have such a messed up society if parents would raise their kids right.Then we could probably care less who carries a gun.
That's pie in the sky though....we're too far gone,I'm afraid.
:grumble:
It can only get better....right? :)
I just have my mind made up how the Constitution was written and we either follow it or we don't....ya' know?
We wouldn't have such a messed up society if parents would raise their kids right.Then we could probably care less who carries a gun.
That's pie in the sky though....we're too far gone,I'm afraid.
:grumble:
It can only get better....right? :)
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