Places that are off limits for CCW?

[J.P.]

Anyone have a list of Oklahoma establishments that don't respect our 2nd Amendment rights?

[Kelly Drown]

I don't have a specific list, but I have the general list to get started. :)


UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES




A. It shall be unlawful for any person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, to carry any concealed handgun into any of the following places:


1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;

2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials, school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or appointed officials;

3. Any prison, jail, detention facility or any facility used to process, hold, or house arrested persons, prisoners or persons alleged delinquent or adjudicated delinquent;

4. Any elementary, secondary, or vocational-technical school property;

5. Any sports arena during a professional sporting event;

6. Any place where pari-mutuel wagering is authorized by law; and

7. Any other place specifically prohibited by law.

B. For purposes of paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of subsection A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property:

a. any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority,

b. any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by any entity offering any professional sporting event which is open to the public for admission, or by any entity engaged in pari-mutuel wagering authorized by law,

c. any property adjacent to a structure, building, or office space in which concealed weapons are prohibited by the provisions of this section,

d. any property designated by a city, town, county, or state, governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds; provided nothing in this subparagraph shall be construed to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section.

D. No person in possession of any concealed handgun pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall be authorized to carry the handgun into or upon any college or university property, except as provided in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, the following property shall not be prohibited for persons having a valid concealed handgun license:

1. Any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, provided the handgun is carried or stored as required by law and the handgun is not removed from the vehicle without the prior consent of the college or university president while the vehicle is on any college or university property;

2. Any property authorized for possession or use of handguns by college or university policy;

3. Any property authorized by the written consent of the college or university president, provided the written consent is carried with the handgun and the valid concealed handgun license while on college or university property.

The college or university may notify the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation within ten (10) days of a violation of any provision of this subsection by a licensee. Upon receipt of a written notification of violation, the Bureau shall give a reasonable notice to the licensee and hold a hearing. At the hearing upon a determination that the licensee has violated any provision of this subsection, the licensee may be subject to an administrative fine of Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) and may have the concealed handgun license suspended for three (3) months.

Nothing contained in any provision of this subsection shall be construed to limit the authority of any college or university in this state from taking administrative action against any student for any violation of any provision of this subsection.

E. The provisions of subsection A of this section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer or to any person authorized by law to carry a pistol in the course of their employment.




§21-1280.1 (http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1280.1.html)



POSSESSION OF FIREARM ON SCHOOL PROPERTY




A. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his or her possession on any public or private school property or while in any school bus or vehicle used by any school for transportation of students or teachers any firearm or weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title except as provided in subsection C of this section or as otherwise authorized by law.


B. "School property" means any publicly or privately owned property held for purposes of elementary, secondary or vocational-technical education, and shall not include property owned by public school districts or private educational entities where such property is leased or rented to an individual or corporation and used for purposes other than educational.

C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:




1. A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property.



POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN PLACES THAT SERVE LOW-POINT BEER

§21-1272.1 (http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1272.1.html) Carrying Firearms Where Liquor Is Consumed.




A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the concealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business.

[Kelly Drown]

And... a little bit of disappointing news to add to that..

HB2122 passed and was signed by the Governor. This new law allows Permit/License holders to carry onto private parking lots their concealed firearm and store it in their locked vehicle. The Bill States, "No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle." The law becomes effective 11/1/04. This law has been blocked by a Federal Judge. Until the court rules this law is null and void.

[Pigeon]

http://oklahomacarry.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=AntiCCWCompaniesinOklahoma&action=display&thread=1105215090

Here is a link to Oklahoma Carry. Not sure how often the list there is updated.

I had the opportunity to visit Oklahoma Farm Bureau- Tulsa County office recently. Posted in BIG letters 'NO FIREARMS'.

I've noticed several banks posted.




Pigeon

[J.P.]

And... a little bit of disappointing news to add to that..

HB2122 passed and was signed by the Governor. This new law allows Permit/License holders to carry onto private parking lots their concealed firearm and store it in their locked vehicle. The Bill States, "No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle." The law becomes effective 11/1/04. This law has been blocked by a Federal Judge. Until the court rules this law is null and void.

I thought the court had already ruled in favor of the law?

[J.P.]

I was looking for specific business that prohibit carry,BTW.
That way I can email,call,and write them about their policies.
The more folks that would get involved,the better the chance we have of making these folks see the light.

[capmarine]

one other important thing about carrying your concealed firearm-dont display it like some cowboy,you know,"look at me,i have a gun."that can get you arrested real quick.

[Pigeon]

RSC (Rental Service Corporation)

Broken Arrow store posted: NO CONCEALED WEAPONS

Me: So do you guys want me to open carry here?

[straight69jack]

RSC (Rental Service Corporation)

Broken Arrow store posted: NO CONCEALED WEAPONS

Me: So do you guys want me to open carry here?




Ought to ask expecially if it only says concealed wepons.
But i feel they wouldnt find it as humorous as we do here
:greetings

[capmarine]

obviously you cant carry it open.

[kjones99]

I thought the court had already ruled in favor of the law?

that just happened on June 9th but doesn't take affect until November 1st. the original law was blocked but Henry signed another one (passed 44-0) as a new one. i couldn't be happier!

[Blinocac200sx]

And... a little bit of disappointing news to add to that..

HB2122 passed and was signed by the Governor. This new law allows Permit/License holders to carry onto private parking lots their concealed firearm and store it in their locked vehicle. The Bill States, "No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle." The law becomes effective 11/1/04. This law has been blocked by a Federal Judge. Until the court rules this law is null and void.

I know it may sound odd, but I'm actually against that law. It breaks down to the same right we enjoy in owning and carrying out firearms: private property. This law prevents someone from deciding what goes on on their own private property.

[Kelly Drown]

I know it may sound odd, but I'm actually against that law. It breaks down to the same right we enjoy in owning and carrying out firearms: private property. This law prevents someone from deciding what goes on on their own private property.

Yeah, I can see both sides of this. Tough call. I think it all boils down to liability... and our country full of lawyers are partly to blame. You have the right to say who can and can not enter your private property, but do you have the right to tell them what they can bring on their person which is legal? Since an individual has rights of his own, can you infringe upon that? Like for example, an individual has the right to free speech. If he's on your property, can you tell him what he can or can't say?

The bill in this case though is very specific and only applies to parking lots. People can honor your wishes by not carrying into your private building or elsewhere on your private property, but you can't tell them that they can't leave their firearm inside thier personal vehicle, on your private, but publically accessible parking lot. That's all it's for.

[edgargarrett]

Attorney General Drew Edmondson and Department of Corrections Director Ron Ward are no fans of citizen self-defense either. See: http://oklahomacarry.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=Law&action=display&thread=1104084395

[J.P.]

Promanade Mall is posted.
I wouldn't even go there but I'm married to a girl 10 years my junior,and she likes the mall ;)
I've written them about their poicies and they responded that they don't care where we spend our money as long as there are no guns in their mall. :finger:

[Quail Fat]

Promanade Mall is posted.
I wouldn't even go there but I'm married to a girl 10 years my junior,and she likes the mall ;)
I've written them about their poicies and they responded that they don't care where we spend our money as long as there are no guns in their mall. :finger:

Screw em. I carry wherever I want, as long as there are no magnometers to catch me.

[bulbboy]

They can only ask you to leave and if you don't its only tresspassing

[capmarine]

true

[J.P.]

Screw em. I carry wherever I want, as long as there are no magnometers to catch me.

I realize that but I don't like giving antis money if I can help it. ;)
more importantly,I like sending them the message that we won't be giving them any money.

[stepper]

Toys R us at Quail Springs Mall is posted.

[GMThunder]

Isn't a posting at a business nothing more than a request? All they can ask you to do is leave IF they know you are carrying, correct? Or am I off base here?

[J.P.]

You are correct.
That's not the point though.

[stepper]

You are correct.
That's not the point though.

You're up way to early!! :wink2:

[Pigeon]

Saint Francis Hospital: NO WEAPONS ALLOWED

[straight69jack]

Oh dont worry there are guns in the mall just on the wrong peoples hips .........

[J.P.]

Interestingly,only the mall entrances are posted.
the entrances to Dillard's,etc.,are not.

[Flyboy]

Midfirst Bank, both Norman branches. No other branches seem to be posted. I really need to get my letter sent....


RE: hospitals:
Given that many of them are funded by their respective cities, I'd be wary of this clause:
Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;
I don't think it applies, but I'd sure hate to be a test case. Also, seeing as how there tend to be things in hospitals that don't react well to bullets--like oxygen lines, cryo equipment, pathogen samples, radiological sources, and other such interesting stuff--I don't think I'd necessarily be inclined to carry there. Doubly so given that most of my time in hospitals is spent working in radiology (my other job), and mixing five pounds of steel with an MR scanner is distinctly suboptimal.

Bottom line is that there may be a legal reason for forbidding carry (in which case they're doing us a favor by posting), and even if it's not a legal reason, they may have advanced knowledge which the general population lacks WRT extraordinary hazards. I'll give them a pass on that one.

[J.P.]

AFAIK,there is nothing prohibiting carry in a Post Office at the federal level.
However,Oklahoma clearly forbids it.
I wonder why the Post Offices are not posted with "no guns" signs?
Hmmm.

[kjones99]

AFAIK,there is nothing prohibiting carry in a Post Office at the federal level.
However,Oklahoma clearly forbids it.
I wonder why the Post Offices are not posted with "no guns" signs?
Hmmm.

to keep the workers from packing...

[J.P.]

huh?

[kjones99]

i misread your post....i thought you said why are the post offices are posted with no guns allowed. with that in mind, i hope my joke makes more sense.

[LastManStanding]

Yeah that new law is basically so you can leave your pistol in a car on a publicly accessible parking lot (like your workplace) without fear of reprisal as in getting fired or towed..etc. It's not so people can park in your private driveway and clean/brandish their firearms on your property. That would likely get you killed under the Oklahoma "Make my Day" law.... :wink2:

So with that said I am in full support of the new law. I remember in CCW class they covered he topic of stores that have posted "No Firearms" signs and we all found it hilarious that a store-owner would post a sign like this with the mindset it made his/her store safer. Considering the fact that if I was going to rob a place or kill someone in that place I sure wouldn't want to do it if I had to violate that "No Firearms" sign. :rolleyes:

All their doing is keeping responsible gun owners from bringing their weapons in when they may be able to assist in the event of a robbery. I'd be a lot less likely to rob a place if I thought there were a few people in it that were packing.

So I will tell them whenever I see those signs what I think about it and also explain why its stupid. And if they refuse to take it down then I refuse to shop there.

[Mack45]

What about carrying in a state park that has "no firearms" signs posted? I think that the SDA says that they can't prohibit you from carrying in a park but what about the signs?

[capmarine]

title 21-1277 B-a.
i dont know what the state parks guys do,but above title reads-with SDA-any property set aside for use of vehicle,attended or unattended,by city,town,county,state or fed.govt-is not prohibited.
sub.d-parks are not prohibited,as long as you dont enter any structures.
im glad im not a park ranger,they have more fishing and hunting laws to contend with and people with guns they have to deal with up close and personal.

[mons meg]

Well, as LMS is all too well aware, our workplace is not SDA friendly. Of course, it's on a military post....so no amount of state law is gonna help me get my piece in the gate. :(

[pete156]

Ok, so clear something up for me.

The law says that you can't carry into a place that serves low point beer. So does that mean all resteraunts that serve beer or you just can't carry into the bar area of that resteraunt?

[okla-lawman]

John Bianchi said it best...unseen in the best places. Honestly in Okla. all they will do is ask you to leave (unless it is one of the prohibited places..then you are a fool to be carrying) unlike other states where you loose your permit. BUT you have made a far greater mistake by doing something to make them aware that you have a gun. I have been carrying for now on 23 years concealed. I have had a couple of oh shits but they were all in an on duty plain clothes were I was more concerned about accesablitiy than concealment. To the trained eye you can pick up the signs. That is not most store clerks. Most peeps that get seen are cause they are lazy, have poor equipment ie not quality leather and BELT (often overlooked) and are just complacent.

[okla-lawman]

Ok, so clear something up for me.

The law says that you can't carry into a place that serves low point beer. So does that mean all resteraunts that serve beer or you just can't carry into the bar area of that resteraunt?
You can carry into a resturant. If the resturant has a bar area you can not go into there.

[Scott_In_OKC]

Good rule of thumb, if there's a sign that says 21 or over, stay out if you're carrying. That sign means alcohol is their primary source of income, not food.

[J.P.]

Good rule of thumb, if there's a sign that says 21 or over, stay out if you're carrying. That sign means alcohol is their primary source of income, not food.

Not exactly.
If it is a 'bar and grill',etc. ,it can be 21 and over but that doesn't mean that the primary purpose is the sale of alcohol.

[skyydiver]

title 21-1277 B-a.
i dont know what the state parks guys do,but above title reads-with SDA-any property set aside for use of vehicle,attended or unattended,by city,town,county,state or fed.govt-is not prohibited.
sub.d-parks are not prohibited,as long as you dont enter any structures.
im glad im not a park ranger,they have more fishing and hunting laws to contend with and people with guns they have to deal with up close and personal.

Cap, help me with something. Every few posts I read of yours, I get the slightest impression that you are/ have been LEO, and also that maybe you don't really think that the general citizenry has any business toting around loaded guns. Like the comment about the park rangers having to deal with people with guns. Tell me I'm just reading you wrong, please.

[SiGARMED]

Walmart in Shawnee is posted....

[J.P.]

Walmart in Shawnee is posted....

Seriously?
You need to contact Wal-Mart hedquarters because that is contrary to their 'corporate policy'.

[pete156]

I don't know if we have any actual Goodyear tire stores in OK, but I won't be buying anymore of their tires from anyone.

Licensed Concealed Carry Not Welcome at Goodyear Tire
2005/09/27
Most businesses in America have chosen NOT to post discriminatory signs against licensed concealed carry in their stores. Goodyear Tire has chosen differently. Your patronage is not welcome.

From Goodyear: (submitted by an MCRGO activist and supporter)

"In an effort to ensure the safety and security of our associates and customers, we have a clear company policy regarding weapons in the workplace. The Goodyear Tire and Rubber Co. prohibits all persons who enter Company property from carrying a handgun, firearm, or prohibited weapon of any kind onto the property regardless of whether the person is licensed to carry the weapon or not. Exceptions apply to on-duty law enforcement personnel. This policy applies to all Company employees, visitors, customers, and contractors on Company property -- including our Company-owned stores.

All Company properties have received the decal or sign you referenced, and have been instructed to post it.

Thank you for the email. Please get back to me if I can provide further information."

Ed Markey (email: emarkey@goodyear.com)
VP, PR and Communications
North American Tire

[SiGARMED]

Seriously?
You need to contact Wal-Mart hedquarters because that is contrary to their 'corporate policy'.

Im nearly 100% sure. I'll check again just to make sure. What's their 'corporate policy'?

[mons meg]

I wanna say Wal Mart's corporate policy is "whatever's legal in your state is legal in Wal Mart". None of the ones I have gone to around the metro have been posted.

[P97]

One of the hard places to comply is the Post Office. Most everybody that carries go to the Post Office daily. Its hard to remember to leave your gun in the vehicle when you run in to check your box that just takes a minute. In my area Cooper Clinic in Ft. Smith, Ark. is posted and most Dr Offices were, but I've noticed that most Doctors have taken the signs down. I think if enough people complain that it has an effect.

[skyydiver]

If it is, it's new. Let us and wal mart corporate know it that's the case.

[SiGARMED]

Alrighty. I go back tomorrow since I work there. I'll let ya know for sure. I know I seen it up though, I almost hope its there so I dont feel like a dummass.

[skyydiver]

Oh no. We'll be so happy if you were wrong, you'll be a hero! If not, do let us know, so we can make some phone calls. I shop there.

[J.P.]

I've never seen a posting at the Shawnee Wal-Mart but maybe it *is* new.

[SiGARMED]

I don't remember one being there when it was in the mall, but they just moved into a whole supercenter thing by themselves and got a whole new store manager about 6 or 7 months ago, so who knows.

[pete156]

Since the fair is here in Tulsa now, what's been decided as far as legally carrying at the fair. Can we or is it best not to try?

[hubmonkey]

According to my instructor. You CAN carry at the fair but stay out of any/all structures including the porta potties...

Hub

[J.P.]

Actually,I believe you *can* carry in the fairgrounds structures.
They are not posted and they are not for "conducting business with the public" or something like that.....i'll let AC37 explain it.

;)

[skyydiver]

I don't remember one being there when it was in the mall, but they just moved into a whole supercenter thing by themselves and got a whole new store manager about 6 or 7 months ago, so who knows.

What'd ya find out at work today??? Do I have to make calls?

[SiGARMED]

What'd ya find out at work today??? Do I have to make calls?

Calm down killa, I go to work at 10PM, youll know around 7:30AM.

[skyydiver]

Nooooo! You must go in early. It's driving me insane! :) Cool, if I was dying to know that bad, I shoulda stopped by while I was in Shompton buying a G19. I actually meant to, but the fam had other ideas.

[hubmonkey]

Actually,I believe you *can* carry in the fairgrounds structures.
They are not posted and they are not for "conducting business with the public" or something like that.....i'll let AC37 explain it.

;)


I would like to hear the explanation about that because they are conducting business with the public. You walk in and buy a RV, buy a sandwich, etc. I will go with what my SDA instructor told me because this specific question was asked about carrying at the fair. I am avoiding the fair anyway. Too many freaks.


Hub

[skyydiver]

The gubmint is not using those buildings to do business with the public. The public is doing business with the public. Do a search for a whole thread on this, my fingers are tired. Do what YOU are comfy with, but I am confident enuff in my ability to read law and use logic that I carried in all the buildings (In short, the law means like court business or city hall business, or legislature business with the public). But to hell with the port a potties, GROSS!

[skyydiver]

I just thought of an example. You probably wouldn't be legal in the sheriff's trailer at the fair, if it's setup for tours.

[kgull85]

Sorry JP I know you were wanting specific places but I think this is relavent.

Isn't a posting at a business nothing more than a request? All they can ask you to do is leave IF they know you are carrying, correct? Or am I off base here?

There was quite a lengthy discussion on this topic over on GlockTalk.... http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=407684&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=1


The way it was explained at my SDA class was like this: If you have been notified either verbally or in writing that you can not carry concealed somewhere and you still chose to carry there that you are not covered under the OK SDA law and are therefore carrying illegally.

[J.P.]

The way I interpet it is that if they ask you to leave,you must do so.

[ok_patriot]

Edmonson is Muskogee County Liberal from way back, and remember his brother is a judge there in Muskogee County, whose daughter went on a killing spree in Louisianna and Mississippi after watching Natrual Born Killers with her boyfriend. She is still in prison, avoided the death penalty.

[UnSafe]

Took the family to the OKC Civic Center last night to see the Cirque show. Noticed the "No concealed weapons" signs on the way out..

[okgr8outdrs]

I just thought of an example. You probably wouldn't be legal in the sheriff's trailer at the fair, if it's setup for tours.

I carried all over at the fair. The only building I was concerned with was the Wildlife Department building, but I have seen what's in there 20 times so I had no reason to go.

I took my family to the circus in the Pavilion last night, and I was sweating bullets wondering what kind of security would be at the door. I didn't want to go through the hassle of a possible wanding or a pat-down. Luckily, they just wanted our money.

[pete156]

F & M Bank (Utica Square branch) is posted. I'm assuming that all of their branches are.

[jb45colt]

F & M Bank (Utica Square branch) is posted. I'm assuming that all of their branches are.

As long the Lorton clan have their mits on F & M, don't get your hopes up. The Lorton's are the most antigun people in the world.

[bulbboy]

yep - makes you miss the Tribune!

[Chuck S]

Liberty National Bank in Lawton, Elgin, and Cache are posted. The Boobs!:nutkick:

[7point82]

Sorry JP I know you were wanting specific places but I think this is relavent.



There was quite a lengthy discussion on this topic over on GlockTalk.... http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=407684&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=1


The way it was explained at my SDA class was like this: If you have been notified either verbally or in writing that you can not carry concealed somewhere and you still chose to carry there that you are not covered under the OK SDA law and are therefore carrying illegally.

Thanks for posting the link to that thread. I was not aware that there was any confusion or conflicting opinions on the matter. I had always heard that it was NOT a criminal issue. Looks like I'll be sending some letters to our legislators requesting some clear language be added to the SDA one way or the other.

[madmax]

Hey Everyone,

First time poster here. This particular issue really has me bugged. I've read through all the posts in the link, and all the posts in this thread as well. The LEO on the other site seems convinced that carrying in a place with a sign that says "no firearms" is a crime and punishable as a misdemeanor yet:

1. I see no provision in the statute indicating any specifics of what a business owner must do in order to alert folks that no weapons are allowed on his/her premises.

2. Without such specifics, it would seem that anyone could reasonably and innocently fail to be aware that the owner has made any such prohibition. (The sign wasn't obvious, you were preoccupied on entry into the business, etc.)



I really think this issue needs to be addressed and clarified with some kind of explicit ammendments to the statute.

[NikatKimber]

2. Without such specifics, it would seem that anyone could reasonably and innocently fail to be aware that the owner has made any such prohibition. (The sign wasn't obvious, you were preoccupied on entry into the business, etc.)



I really think this issue needs to be addressed and clarified with some kind of explicit ammendments to the statute.

It does need to be clarified. the "not obvious" could be valid, but "preoccupied" isn't in my opinion. that'd be like saying "i wasn't paying attention so i didn't see the speed limit sign."

[madmax]

It does need to be clarified. the "not obvious" could be valid, but "preoccupied" isn't in my opinion. that'd be like saying "i wasn't paying attention so i didn't see the speed limit sign." Hmm. I can understand the obligation to pay attention while driving a motor vehicle. But somehow just walking into a store while talking with one's kids or wife, it doesn't seem the same. I suppose if the sign is an obvious one that stands out from all the other posters and such that cover most storefront windows, that'd be different.

[SMS]

I would like to hear the explanation about that because they are conducting business with the public. You walk in and buy a RV, buy a sandwich, etc. I will go with what my SDA instructor told me because this specific question was asked about carrying at the fair. I am avoiding the fair anyway. Too many freaks.


Hub

sure, but you are not buying the RV, sandwich or whatever from the State or local government are you? Therefore the SDA clause doesn't apply in that situation.

You are right though, the freak factor is getting too high to really enjoy it with the kids.

[skyydiver]

sure, but you are not buying the RV, sandwich or whatever from the State or local government are you? Therefore the SDA clause doesn't apply in that situation.

You are right though, the freak factor is getting too high to really enjoy it with the kids.

+1

and +1, but we'll still go. The wife won't let me off that easy. And the kids enjoy the mullet watching.

[trade_sniper]

A buddy asked me about this scenario. He works in a multi-story office building that rents office space out of the building, so several companies occupy the offices inside. His employer doesn't have any particular policy on carrying, basically it doesn't say you can't. The building has a gun ghostbuster sticker on the main entry doors. Not on the very outside rather, but on the second set of doors once you enter the building, but still in the entry way.

If he was carrying, working late one evening, he's attacked before he gets to his car and draws his weapon. It could be determined that he hadn't reached his car yet when he was attacked, so therefore, he had the gun on him, which means he was carrying in the building. He may have saved his life, but in doing so, will he lose his SDA, preventing him from having that liberty in the future?

I see from Title 21 Section 1276 that he would be charged with a misdemeanor, fined or jailed. It also states that your SDA would be suspended for six months and another fine levied once the hearing and determination by the OSBI shows that the person was in violation.

The first fine or jail time varies depending on whether or not its the first, second, etc. offense. The SDA suspension and accompanying fine doesn't state any specifics for number of offenses or whether it would become a revocation instead of suspension.

[SMS]

1276 applies to those who violate 1272 and 1273....Neither of which apply to the SDA permit holder in the hypothetical you put forward.

The new "stand your ground" law doesn't create the right to self defense in public places, it merely codifies it......we've always been able to defend ourselves in public, but sometimes the legal system opened you up to attack by money hungry lawyers or DAs with an agenda.

So your buddy would be fine, as long as had his SDA permit and the shooting was deemed justifiable.

[CoryHawk]

I see from Title 21 Section 1276 that he would be charged with a misdemeanor, fined or jailed. It also states that your SDA would be suspended for six months and another fine levied once the hearing and determination by the OSBI shows that the person was in violation.



This has been debated here many times. There is no law in Oklahoma (such as in Texas where a SPECIFIC sign must be posted to make carry illegal).

Basically.. as I understand it, and as a few LEO's here have tip toed around, business owners can post the sign but there is nothing illegal about carrying there save a Trespass, and even then you must refuse to leave when asked. Your firearm should be concealed anyway so it should be a non issue. As long as you don't carry into any of the CLEARLY stated places in the law.. you should be fine.

[NikatKimber]

the first time it is a trespass is what i understand, it's not clear in the law. there are no prescribed consequences that i have found. however, if the business place chose to, they can terminate employment for violating company policy, but there have not been state laws violated to my understanding.

[ArGyLe64]

http://oklahomacarry.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=AntiCCWCompaniesinOklahoma&action=display&thread=1105215090

Here is a link to Oklahoma Carry. Not sure how often the list there is updated.

I had the opportunity to visit Oklahoma Farm Bureau- Tulsa County office recently. Posted in BIG letters 'NO FIREARMS'.

I've noticed several banks posted.




Pigeon

Is it just me or does that seem weird that a Farm Bureau wouldn't allow you to carry your sidearm in there? I mean, isn't that kinda what we're known for here in Oklahoma? According to the state statutes you can OPEN carry on a farm/ranch and it's perfectly legal. The Farm Bureau was established for farmers. I personally know a couple that open carry on their farm everyday and when they go into town they never remove their sidearm and no one cares.

[IDtheTarget]

the first time it is a trespass is what i understand, it's not clear in the law. there are no prescribed consequences that i have found. however, if the business place chose to, they can terminate employment for violating company policy, but there have not been state laws violated to my understanding.

Actually, that's incorrect. I'm verifying some stuff, but expect to have a post up on Monday. Bottom line:

It is a misdemeanor in the state of Oklahoma to carry a concealed firearm on any property where the owner has prohibited said practice. This misdemeanor is punishable by fine, jail time, and a 6-month suspension of your SDA license.

It's all in the statutes. I need to run some quotes past the person who made them and get the okay before I post, but that's the bottom line.

If a property is not posted, then you're fine until they ask you to leave. If the property is posted, you've broken the law by just stepping across the threshold.

[skyydiver]

I don't dispute this, but would like to know what the misdimeanor is called, be it trespass, or violating some section of the SDA or other act. And the appropriate citation / opinion and who made it. If this is an AG opinion, etc...it will be the first real clarity we've gotten. Thanks ID!

[Buzzdraw]

[QUOTE=IDtheTarget]

It is a misdemeanor in the state of Oklahoma to carry a concealed firearm on any property where the owner has prohibited said practice. This misdemeanor is punishable by fine, jail time, and a 6-month suspension of your SDA license.

ID the Target:

Your post quoted above. Carrying on posted property is a “sticky wicket� with widely varying penalties, depending upon the classification of said property.

The CLEET class curriculum does not mention anything regarding a 6 month suspension for the specific activity of simple misdemeanor trespass.

It is my understanding that simple trespass is a potential misdemeanor, which if it escalates to the point that law enforcement is called out, could be a citable offense. The cost of the citation can vary among jurisdictions, but something around $200 is typical. I am not aware that a simple trespass conviction will result in suspension of a SDA license and would like to know of the specific statute/rule that applies to this situation.

We must always remember that carrying a handgun, under a SDA license, into certain property,facilities or buildings can be very serious. Carry into places such as courthouses, jails, schools, governmental buildings, and too many others to list, can produce charges including felony level ones, with attendant severe penalties. SDA licensees can have their carry license revoked and have various $$ amount of administrative fines imposed (by OSBI), in addition to the other legal charges, for illegal carry under these statutes. In some cases, one can run afoul of Federal statutes.

Oklahoma does not have a “must sign to enforce� statute, nor does it have any statue to delineate official standards for posting of “no guns.� SDA carriers must always be aware of what the status is of any place in which they may carry their concealed handgun. We must always beware of where we carry!

[IDtheTarget]

It is a misdemeanor in the state of Oklahoma to carry a concealed firearm on any property where the owner has prohibited said practice. This misdemeanor is punishable by fine, jail time, and a 6-month suspension of your SDA license.

ID the Target:

Your post quoted above. Carrying on posted property is a “sticky wicket” with widely varying penalties, depending upon the classification of said property.

The CLEET class curriculum does not mention anything regarding a 6 month suspension for the specific activity of simple misdemeanor trespass.

It is my understanding that simple trespass is a potential misdemeanor, which if it escalates to the point that law enforcement is called out, could be a citable offense. The cost of the citation can vary among jurisdictions, but something around $200 is typical. I am not aware that a simple trespass conviction will result in suspension of a SDA license and would like to know of the specific statute/rule that applies to this situation.

We must always remember that carrying a handgun, under a SDA license, into certain property,facilities or buildings can be very serious. Carry into places such as courthouses, jails, schools, governmental buildings, and too many others to list, can produce charges including felony level ones, with attendant severe penalties. SDA licensees can have their carry license revoked and have various $$ amount of administrative fines imposed (by OSBI), in addition to the other legal charges, for illegal carry under these statutes. In some cases, one can run afoul of Federal statutes.

Oklahoma does not have a “must sign to enforce” statute, nor does it have any statue to delineate official standards for posting of “no guns.” SDA carriers must always be aware of what the status is of any place in which they may carry their concealed handgun. We must always beware of where we carry!


With regards to carrying on private property (not any of the other places specifically prohibited in the SDA) where the owner has prohibited concealed carry, it's not a simple trespass. Like I said, I need to run my post across the desk of the person with whom I spoke before I put it up here, but basically it is a violation of Title 21 Section 1272, which means that the penalties are outlined in Title 21 Section 1276.

I'll do my best to have it up on Monday, it depends upon another person's schedule.

[Buzzdraw]

I just concluded a discussion with CLEET’s staff attorney regarding a couple SDA matters, including trespass. Here is a synopsis of the conversation regarding trespass.

There are two degrees of trespass: simple and criminal. Simple trespass is defined as not causing harm or of an innocent nature. This includes going past an ordinary "no guns" sign, at a property whose entry into by SDA holders is not restricted by statute. It will not cause a SDA license to be revoked/suspended. Criminal trespass CAN cause suspension/loss of SDA license. It is of a greater degree of trespass, potentially causing harm/damage to the property being trespassed upon (i.e. destruction of property at the location, etc.)

He elaborated that if simple trespass progresses to the point that law enforcement is called out, the LE asks the SDA trespasser to leave, AND this lawful order is declined by the SDA licensee, THEN things could get sticky for the SDA licensee. The LE could, at that point, cite not only for simple trespass, but also for disobeying a lawful order of a police officer, in addition to whatever other statute-breaking items the officer may find, if he chooses to continue investigation.

The SDA licensee MUST know the law (and the legal status of property he may enter) to stay out of serious trouble.

A definative legal opinion for all of Oklahoma would be firmly established by an AG's opinion. These are sometimes necessary if the statutes are not clear or are possibly conflicting. I'm not advocating a request for an official opinion as necessary in this case.

[NikatKimber]

Actually, that's incorrect. I'm verifying some stuff, but expect to have a post up on Monday. Bottom line:

It is a misdemeanor in the state of Oklahoma to carry a concealed firearm on any property where the owner has prohibited said practice. This misdemeanor is punishable by fine, jail time, and a 6-month suspension of your SDA license.

It's all in the statutes. I need to run some quotes past the person who made them and get the okay before I post, but that's the bottom line.

If a property is not posted, then you're fine until they ask you to leave. If the property is posted, you've broken the law by just stepping across the threshold.

I've looked through the SDA several times, can't find it. can you tell me what section please?

/// nevermind, you did put it up, didnt' read far enough before responding.

[skyydiver]

After poring over 1272 again, I'm definitely not seeing it as clearly as you seem to ID. I am eager to see the opinion you've got coming on this to see where and how the connection between a property owner being able to regulate their property and a violation of 1272 is made.

[IDtheTarget]

Okay, it's been bugging me about what (if any) the penalties are for knowingly walking into an establishment that is posted as a no-carry zone, and there have been a lot of different opinions posted here on this subject. So, I spoke with a lawyer who's intimately familiar with this law. He prefers that I not use his or our agency's name since it's not our job to make or interpret the law. He agrees with Buzz about it being the AG's role to write a definitive opinion, but notes two things:
(1) He doubts the AG will do so, in order to leave the DA's the flexibility to charge on a case-by-case basis, and

(2) It won't really be decided until a court tries the case and applicable case law is established.

That being the case, the gentleman with whom I spoke disagrees with the CLEET staff attorney. I detailed the reasoning as best I could below:

Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): It's a misdemeanor, and you lose your SDA license for 6 months plus fine and possibly jail time.

First of all, if there were no law on the subject, anybody could carry a concealed handgun anywhere they want. However, there is a law making concealed carry illegal, Title 21 Section 1272 (http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1272.html). Until it was ammended to allow carry for SDA holders, nobody but LEOs and licensed PIs were allowed concealed carry. Now it reads that it is:
unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her
person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any
pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any
dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife,
sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of
the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles,
or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or
unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

1. The proper use of guns and knives for hunting, fishing, educational
or recreational purposes;

2. The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by
statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1
et seq. of this title; or

3. The carrying, possession and use of any weapon by a peace officer
in the performance of official duties and in compliance with the rules
of the employing agency. Any person convicted of violating the
foregoing provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable as
provided in Section 1276 of this title.

So, unless you are carrying under the auspices of the SDA, the average person can't carry concealed.

Now, Title 21 Section 1290.4 (http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1290.4.html) states:
As provided by Section 1272 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, it
is unlawful for any person to carry a concealed handgun in this state,
except as hereby authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma
Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, or as may
otherwise be provided by law.

So, if you are carrying in a way that is contrary to the SDA, you are not protected by the SDA, and therefore fall under Section 1272. Now, Title 21 Section 1290.22A (http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1290.22.html) states that a business owner (or any other property owner) can disallow weapons on his or her property. If said owner disallows weapons, then anybody carrying on his/her property is not protected by the SDA, and are therefore violating Title 21 Section 1272.

Now, the penalties for violating sections 1272 and 1273 are spelled out in Title 21 Section 1276 (http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1276.html):

PENALTY FOR 1272 AND 1273

Any person violating the provisions of Section 1272 or 1273 shall,
upon a first conviction, be adjudged guilty of a misdemeanor and the
party offending shall be punished by a fine of not less than One
Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars
($250.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to
exceed thirty (30) days or both such fine and imprisonment. On the
second and every subsequent violation, the party offending shall, upon
conviction, be punished by a fine of not less than Two Hundred Fifty
Dollars ($250.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by
imprisonment in the county jail for a period not less than thirty (30)
days nor more than three (3) months, or by both such fine and
imprisonment.

Any person convicted of violating the provisions of Section 1272 or
1273 after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to
the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25
of this act, shall have the license suspended for a period of six (6)
months and shall be liable for an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars
($50.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau
of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of
this section.

Notice that the SDA is specifically mentioned in the revised Section 1276. I personally believe that this was not an accident, it was intentional so that people would know that it applies in this specific case.

So, if you are caught in a store/establishment that has a "no guns" sign posted, you can be fined, jailed, have your SDA suspended for six months, and have a misdemeanor on your record. Notice that there's nothing in the law that says that the owner has to ask you to leave, first.

I haven't tried to talk with the OKC DA, this guy's opinion is good for me. If anybody else feels the need to ask whoever the DA is a week from Wednesday, then let us know what he says. But I'm willing to bet a nice lunch that he says basically the same thing, if he voices an opinion at all.

Hope this helps!

[Buzzdraw]

When two lawyers disagree in what a law reads, it's called a lawsuit. Seriously, both probably think they are correct, but case law (yes, it's established by trying an issue in court) is much more definative.

At this point, an individual must choose the interpretation they think is correct and go on about their business of taking care of themselves and certain others.

[IDtheTarget]

Unfortunately, we may not get an AG answer any time soon. I went over to his website to see what the process was, and found his FAQ page. The very first FAQ was:


Question:
Who can ask the Attorney General for an official opinion?
Answer:

74 O.S. § 18b (A(5)) provides the following language: The duties of the Attorney General as the chief law officer of the state shall be... To give an opinion in writing upon all questions of law submitted to the Attorney General by the Legislature or either branch thereof, or by any state officer, board, commission or department, provided, that the Attorney General shall not furnish opinions to any but district attorneys, the Legislature or either branch thereof, or any other state official, board, commission or department, and to them only upon matters in which they are officially interested.

I doubt the agency for which I work will be asking about this specific question. I suppose we here on OSA will have to go through a DA.

[LoveMyJeep]

The LE could, at that point, cite not only for simple trespass, but also for disobeying a lawful order of a police officer, in addition to whatever other statute-breaking items the officer may find, if he chooses to continue investigation.

The statute regarding the disobeying of a lawful order falls under Title 47 and is only in reference to an officer directing traffic. You could not be cited under this statute and under these give circumstances.


Section 11-103 - Obedience To Police Officers

No person shall willfully fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer invested by law with authority to direct, control or regulate traffic.

[Buzzdraw]

The point trying to be made was that a LE may be inclined to find additional charges, beyond trespassing, when pushed to annoyance.

Gentlemen and ladies, I don't think we're going to be able to get a definative answer on this without case law or an AG opinion. I'm also of the opinion that we should let the sleeping dog lie, since we might not like a more restrictive answer if we push the issue with the AG.

[IDtheTarget]

Good points. The only reason I'm pushing the issue is because there are so many people on the board saying "it's only tresspass, so I'm going to ignore the sign". I am very concerned that this reasoning could cost somebody a lot of trouble.

I'm not worried about myself, I stay away from places that are posted and if I accidentally end up in the wrong place I feel fairly certain that showing my ID and explaining the situation will keep me out of trouble.

I'd just hate to see a new SDA holder come to the board, hear the opinion of the "tresspass" crowd and learn otherwise the hard way.

[skyydiver]

It's still not laid out in the business owners rights section that one is carrying "outside the SDA" if an owner prohibits carry, so the question is still wide open.

I do agree that it could go either way in the hands of lawyers, a jury, or a panel of judges (really long lasting lawyers) and I definitely agree I don't want to be the test case. What I don't agree about is how cut and dry you try to make it appear, ID. I think it's vague as hell like most statute. How else do the scheisters get paid?

Edited to add: When I type about lawyers, I look like a **** because I don't like them (as a rule, not 100% of them), so don't let that make you think I'm directing that at you ID. You are providing very good points and I can see both sides of this, as I think we all can. I just like to be optimistic. :)

[IDtheTarget]

Well, I'm not a lawyer either, so you won't hurt my feelings any. :)

I honestly don't understand why this isn't clear to everybody else. Maybe I have a screw loose. It seems pretty simple to me, but then I'm used to looking at Access Control Lists for firewalls and routers:

Rule 1) Carry on Oklahoma State property is prohibited.
Rule 2) Property owners may control the possession of weapons on their property
Rule 3) If Property Owner prohibits possession of a firearm on their property, it is prohibited.
Rule 4) Carry of a concealed firearm is authorized by duly licensed civilians, except in prohibited areas.

Oh, well. Life would be boring if everybody agreed with each other. :)

[skyydiver]

Rule 3 is the one you keep assuming is there. It's not, it just says they can prohibit it. So that leads to : Hey you, with the gun, leave. It's not a stretch from there to trespass. Like i said, it's all in the interpretation, but nothing in the property owners' rights makes it expressly illegal to carry there, just let's them prohibit guns there. The ILLEGAL places are all laid out in SDA. It never says posted places are included. Rule 3 above is an easy assumption to make too, but it's no more laid out in statute than the trespass theory. Routers and firewalls are WAY too logical to apply to law.

[penman53]

FYI:

I just sent in my paperwork for my concealed carry license on thursday. The deputy sheriff I spoke with that finger printed me and I talked for a long time. I asked him specifically, what would be re ramifications of carrying a concealed weapon into a business that has it posted "no firearms" especially since we are of course carrying a concealed weapon, how would they know it anyway? He said that as long as I was not trying to go into a school, federal building etc. that little or nothing would be done for carrying into that business. He also said the same think you said that these people that are carrying concealed weapons are cleared to do so through a comphrehensive background check with the county, state and federal government. He said just to keep quite and don't worry about it.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Oklahoma County deputy?

[trade_sniper]

Ok, I have a new place to consider. I have to go to a building that is part of the Tulsa International Airport complex. Now, its not in the terminal area, its a hangar owned by a business, somewhere on the property, probably way out back. Would that place be considered off-limits, maybe because of its proximity to TIA? Some other reason?

[trade_sniper]

What about Tulsa Police Stations? Lets say I need to get some information from a particular police officer and I want to stop by the station for a chat. Since it's 'tulsa', it would be 'city' right? I would think an OHP station would be off-limits because it is 'state'. Is that correct?

[JamesBell]

Tulsa PD would be a place set aside for the city to do business with the public, so no carry there. I don't know about the airport, but I wouldn't carry there just to be safe.

[ExSniper]

I know it may sound odd, but I'm actually against that law. It breaks down to the same right we enjoy in owning and carrying out firearms: private property. This law prevents someone from deciding what goes on on their own private property.

No, it doesn't. It merely allows you to store a firearm inside your private property (an automobile) in their parking lot. They may still prevent you from concealed carry inside their establishment or even in the parking lot if you get out of your car/truck. This law protects them from lawsuits (which was their main argument). In many states your automobile is your "domicile" and has the same protections as being inside your home.

[J. Holly]

Well, next time that you want to go into a place that has a No Guns allowed sign, walk in. Immediately find the manager, and tell them you want to come into the establishment, however, since you are not allowed to protect yourself within the laws of the state of Oklahoma, they therefore have to afford you the same protection, and demand an employee, or manager, walk around the store with you the whole time.

Worked once for me, and then they told me that I could bring my firearm in next time.

[skyydiver]

No, it doesn't. It merely allows you to store a firearm inside your private property (an automobile) in their parking lot. They may still prevent you from concealed carry inside their establishment or even in the parking lot if you get out of your car/truck. This law protects them from lawsuits (which was their main argument). In many states your automobile is your "domicile" and has the same protections as being inside your home.

Exactly. If a friend requests that I not bring a gun into their home, I will respect that (okay, I don't have weenie friends, but if I did...). BUT, they have no right to tell me that I can't protect my family on the road on the way over, at the gas station, when our car breaks down and we have to walk, etc...

Same concept. Many of us take our kids to school / daycare on the way to work, and this law would keep us from being made helpless by employers. So while I respect private property rights, this seems like the best combo to me.

[trade_sniper]

Chase Bank building at 66th and Sheridan says 'no weapons' on its doors, even the office building behind the actual bank. I was in there one day this week.

[leonb45]

warehouse market, sapulpa, and tulsa area united way, tulsa posted with no carry

[eemitchell24]

It is my understanding that any place not specifically listed in the Oklahoma concealed carry laws (Federal Bldgs, Elementary Schools etc) do not have any legal basis to support a "no Weapons" policy. In other words, it is exactly like the "no shoes, no shirt, no service" at McDonalds. If you do go in without a shirt or shoes, the most they can do is ask you to leave.

[PARASHOOTER]

The bill in this case though is very specific and only applies to parking lots. People can honor your wishes by not carrying into your private building or elsewhere on your private property, but you can't tell them that they can't leave their firearm inside thier personal vehicle, on your private, but publically accessible parking lot. That's all it's for.

So, who will be guarding the parking lots??? Cause if my gun gets stolen from my vehicle on their property, I'll be pi$$ed. (I could have kept control of it on my person....)

[PARASHOOTER]

Well, next time that you want to go into a place that has a No Guns allowed sign, walk in. Immediately find the manager, and tell them you want to come into the establishment, however, since you are not allowed to protect yourself within the laws of the state of Oklahoma, they therefore have to afford you the same protection, and demand an employee, or manager, walk around the store with you the whole time.

Worked once for me, and then they told me that I could bring my firearm in next time.

Cool!! Except, this bonehead employee or manager will be the first one hotfooting it out of there when the stuff hits the fan. I'll pass.

[AirMech74]

Am I the only one that thinks that maybe the intent of this thread kinda went the other way? Although very informing, I was kinda hoping to just see the names of some businesses that post.

[Christopher]

Someone mentioned something about a business at Utica Square with a "no gun" sign. I work at a restaurant (gun friendly afaik) in Utica Square and from what I heard, the entire Square is off limits to CCW holders. One security guard even told me I wasn't allowed to park on the property with firearms OR ammo in my trunk. None of that prevents me from conceal carrying at work though, I don't trust those cranky security guards to come save my a$$ when it hits the fan.

[J.P.]

Add to the list....

Golden Pawn II on 13th and Peoria
(although the former owners never had a problem with me carrying)

Golden Pawn III
129th E Ave and Admiral.

[J.P.]

Someone mentioned something about a business at Utica Square with a "no gun" sign. I work at a restaurant (gun friendly afaik) in Utica Square and from what I heard, the entire Square is off limits to CCW holders. One security guard even told me I wasn't allowed to park on the property with firearms OR ammo in my trunk. None of that prevents me from conceal carrying at work though, I don't trust those cranky security guards to come save my a$$ when it hits the fan.

:laugh6:
That's a riot!


The F&M bank in Utica Squre is posted too but I guess it doesn't matter because they have a TPD officer on site by the vault.
I gotta say though....While he might be a really nice guy and maybe even a crack-shot, I just didn't get any warm fuzzy feeling about it.
After witnessing the extreme smackdown I've put on many area LEOs on the local competition field, I still trust my abilities sightly more. :D

Exclusions to this need not respond....This means YOU Mike...and YOU Marshall.
;)

[Okie Marine]

Someone mentioned something about a business at Utica Square with a "no gun" sign. I work at a restaurant (gun friendly afaik) in Utica Square and from what I heard, the entire Square is off limits to CCW holders. One security guard even told me I wasn't allowed to park on the property with firearms OR ammo in my trunk. None of that prevents me from conceal carrying at work though, I don't trust those cranky security guards to come save my a$$ when it hits the fan.

Thats odd. I happen to know one of the guards at Utica Square (only female working there) and her and her husband are both CCW fanatics and CLEET instructors. I can't imagine she would say that unless right afterwards she said "it's BS but my boss made up the policy". Must have been another guard though.

[Okie Marine]

Add National Steak and Poulty in Owasso to the list of businesses posting no weapons signs.

[dalepres]

Greetings. This is my first post to OKShooters.com. I really wanted to get my two cent's worth on this topic. I have two points - so it's one cent per point.

1. I think that if you're seen carrying in a posted business, I don't think that you will get asked to leave. I think that the near-minimum-wage "manager" of most retail establishments will follow some corporate instructions to lock themselves in the back and call the police. It is very likely that the first you know that you were seen will be when the police approach... and hopefully the "manager" didn't blow things out of proportion so much that the police show up guns drawn. I think that may be the risk of getting caught carrying in a posted place, not just being asked to leave.

Do any of the LEOs have specific experience in how these calls tend to come in?

And, 2. At least one poster on this thread said they struggled with the parking lot law because they understand the property rights issue involved with telling the property owner they must allow guns in private vehicles.

I agreed with that point too when I first heard of this issue. Then I read somewhere where someone posted another idea on this. We do not let property owners violate other civil rights just because it is on their private property. Businesses cannot discriminate against women, minorities, or even old guys like me. Why then, should they be allowed to violate your second amendment rights? And your fourth amendment rights by searching your private vehicle - especially when that vehicle is publicly accessible as in not gate protected?

I respect private property rights - as long as they don't represent a threat to the well-being or safety of my family or me. Even so, when they allow me to park my vehicle on their lot, everything above my tires is still my private property and as much as they want to have private property rights over their property, they must allow me my private property rights over my vehicle.

Thanks to the admins/owners for a great resource and the opportunity to exercise my first amendment rights on their private property. :)

Dale

[Iwant1]

Interestingly,only the mall entrances are posted.
the entrances to Dillard's,etc.,are not.

So can we carry into the Mall if we enter and exit through Dillards?

[J.P.]

So can we carry into the Mall if we enter and exit through Dillards?

Let me answer your question....with a question.
How are we supposed to know they don't like accepting money from pistol packers if they don't have a gunbusters sign posted?

[dalepres]

I saw a report on the news a couple days ago about new X-ray cameras that will search you instantly and are affordable enough to use in malls, schools, and other public places.

When those cameras go into service, they won't make it known. When you get arrested in the mall, they'll keep it as low profile to protect their profit margins. Most shoppers won't even know the constitution busting cameras exist.

But I also believe they will over react - both the mall rent-a-cops and the sworn LEOs. I don't think it will be an invitation to leave, I think the reaction will include a pair of cuffs and a trip to jail.

[chuckels59h]

Promanade Mall is posted.
I wouldn't even go there but I'm married to a girl 10 years my junior,and she likes the mall ;)
I've written them about their poicies and they responded that they don't care where we spend our money as long as there are no guns in their mall. :finger:
It's not posted on the north upper 41st street Dillards entrance...was just there last week.
Also at Woodlands went in the main south 71st street entrance, guess what? NO SIGN!! I looked for it.
The way I look at it, if there is one single door that I can go thru that isn't posted, well , that's on them...

[BJS]

Here's a link to an OKC FFL's website that lists establishments that prohibit concealed carry.

http://members.cox.net/morrissportinggoods/supportc.htm

I don't have any affiliation with him, just remembered I'd seen the list before. If you click on the link to return to his homepage he also has a list of concealed-carry friendly places.

BJS

[Shadowrider]

Plaza Parking Garage.

Caddy corner (NE) from the Oklahoma County Courthouse. (The valet parking garage). I just use the county parking straight across from the the main entrance of the courthouse.

[Landshark]

I dont know if it is on here already but Warehouse Market in Sand Springs has a sign posted no concealed weapons.

[skyydiver]

Plaza Parking Garage.

Caddy corner (NE) from the Oklahoma County Courthouse. (The valet parking garage). I just use the county parking straight across from the the main entrance of the courthouse.

Hmm. Sketchy. I'll have to look back at the exact wording of the SDA and decide if that sign has a bit of merit.

[solutions]

Here's a couple. Cotton Electric Cooperative, Duncan OK and Halliburton Employees Federal Credit Union, Duncan OK

:puke:

[Glocktogo]

Oral Robbers University. :(

[Craig B]

Cinemark (Tulsa) at 71st and 169.

[BurkLee]

Hobby Lobby at 15th and Boulevard in Edmond. I also assume that Michael's across the street is likewise.

[AKguy1985]

american general finance in claremore-has the ghostbusters sign
Golden pawn III at 129th and admiral--sign in handwritten letters "NO CONCEALED WEAPONS"

[FoxGirl]

Cox Communications @ 51st & Garnett is posted at the parking lot entrance & on the building.

[B1rd]

Cox Communications @ 51st & Garnett is posted at the parking lot entrance & on the building.

What does it say for a business that has to have a cop on duty inside because people get so upset with their (Cox) service?

[J.P.]

Golden pawn III at 129th and admiral--sign in handwritten letters "NO CONCEALED WEAPONS"
The owner who also formerly owned Golden Pawn II on Peoria had expressed to me that he'd rather I carry in there....
I can't say the same for everyone but IMO from speaking with the owner, the sign is more for idiots than legal CWL holders.

[pete156]

The Wilson's BBQ out north has a ghostbuster sign which says no firearms.

[oucheme]

All of the Alltel Networks stores are posted, and the sign they use is extremely small, so be careful there. I guess if you've ever had to deal with their customer service you would understand why they post their stores. :puke:

[skyydiver]

The owner who also formerly owned Golden Pawn II on Peoria had expressed to me that he'd rather I carry in there....
I can't say the same for everyone but IMO from speaking with the owner, the sign is more for idiots than legal CWL holders.

Even better. Selective gun control. Trust him to show up and testify that he told you that when some punk's momma is suing both of you for shooting fer poor little robber?

[jej]

I am visiting OK soon, with a valid CCW permit recognized by OK. I've read the statute and this thread and am confused about the rules for the lakes around Tulsa. Can I carry at Keystone? I guess it is a federal Corp of Engineers dam, and there is a state park there. I know carry is permitted at state parks. What is the deal with Corp lakes?

jej

[jscg.nunley]

"a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

- U.S. Constitution- 2nd Amendment

[tulsadavid]

I guess if we had a question about a specific place or situation, we'd call who? State troopers HQ?

[luvmykalashnikov]

I guess if we had a question about a specific place or situation, we'd call who? State troopers HQ?

I sure someone here would be qualified to answer just about any question.

[J.P.]

Trust him to show up and testify that he told you that when some punk's momma is suing both of you for shooting fer poor little robber?
Yes, I do with 100% certainty.

I guess if we had a question about a specific place or situation, we'd call who? State troopers HQ?
What specific place?
Perhaps we already know.....

[dpparker2001]

They can only ask you to leave and if you don't its only tresspassing

IF NOBODY EVER SEES IT, IT ISN'T AN ISSUE. Thats why it's called a CONCEALED carry license.

[Rshep]

Fire Fighter's Credit Union at 9200 E 41st has a no concealed weapons sign last time I was there.

[okbirdman]

Isn't a posting at a business nothing more than a request? All they can ask you to do is leave IF they know you are carrying, correct? Or am I off base here?

I justspoke with an OCPD officer who said that carrying in a posted business is only trespassing but your initial warning was given with the sign and you can now be arrested for trespass. Not a chance i want to take.

[BadgeBunny]

IF NOBODY EVER SEES IT, IT ISN'T AN ISSUE. Thats why it's called a CONCEALED carry license.


thank you.

[Rod Snell]

I justspoke with an OCPD officer who said that carrying in a posted business is only trespassing but your initial warning was given with the sign and you can now be arrested for trespass. Not a chance i want to take.

In spite of often repeated mis-information on the internet, it is correct as stated above.
Athough rare, people can and do get arrested for ignoring signs. Ask the Texas fellow who carried into my Credit Union and got caught. (His case illustrates several problems, including OK does not have 30.06 signs, and make sure your license is not expired)

The SDA does not cancel, list, or change the trespass laws, which are located in an entirely different section of the law.

[Teeeroy]

I would think that with the huge volume of applicants for CCW and those already awarded permits, that more than a few have been 'caught' carrying in a posted establishment.

How would we find out specifics about charges (if any) and subsequent penalty? I know you can look at places like oscn.net if you know a specific person's name to see some history, but what if you don't know of a specific person?

Oh...and I work in a posted facility. But I work for municipal golf courses and they fall under the government buildings doing business with the public auspice.

[Soulman]

I always wondered if it would turn a "justified" shoot into an "unjustified" shoot if you had to use your weapon for SD in a posted place.

[Rod Snell]

I always wondered if it would turn a "justified" shoot into an "unjustified" shoot if you had to use your weapon for SD in a posted place.

In OK, you can sleep soundly on that one.

A $200 misdemeanor fine will not be a relevant factor to a felony charge. Of course, if you shot the store owner by mistake, THAT would be a problem. :oops3:

[tulsadavid]

I guess I assumed that all banks would prohibit, maybe due to their FDIC agreement? I work for the Post Office, so I can't even leave mine in my car at work, such a bummer. Expo square used to be state property, but was annexed by the City of Tulsa. I wonder if that prohibits any carrying there. What about liquor stores? They're primarily selling alcohol, but not serving it.

[bulbboy]

I know a bank president in Tulsa that encourages Concealed carry

[tulsadavid]

I know a bank president in Tulsa that encourages Concealed carry
I'm just wondering about the legality of carrying in banks. We all encourage it.

[bettingpython]

I'm just wondering about the legality of carrying in banks. We all encourage it.

There is no statute prohibiting CCW in banks. Nothing to wonder about, if bank management has not posted a gun buster sign you are GTG

[Hat3d1]

Arvest has no Gun Buster ;)

[Wlnjr]

Unless it is prohibited by state or federal statute, you would commit no crime in concealed carrying in those private establishment which prohibit conceal carry. But, you could be asked to leave the premises if they found out you were carrying.

my $0.02

Bill

[TheAvenger]

Midfirst Bank at Reno and Portland in Oklahoma City and the branch in Mustang are posted "No Weapons." I think is may be corporate policy and all branches are posted. A grocery store owner in Mustang got the letter a few years ago and took his sign down.

[Rod Snell]

Unless it is prohibited by state or federal statute, you would commit no crime in concealed carrying in those private establishment which prohibit conceal carry. But, you could be asked to leave the premises if they found out you were carrying.

my $0.02

Bill

Trespass is covered in Title 21, Section 1835 of OK code, not in the SDA.

Simple trespass on posted private property carries a penalty up to $250. If done, "Disturbing the Peace" or "Destruction of property" can possibly add some jail time.

The part about individual notification and permanent prohibition is in Section 1835.1 and is usually used against shoplifters or vandals that have been caught.

I don't have any argument for people who make the personal decision to value their safety over the (small) risk of a fine. That is each person's decision to make.

However, what purpose does to serve to keep erroneously repeating "they can only ask you to leave?" :confused:

[neverjeg]

Dear Owner/Manager,

I recently attempted to enter your business for the intent of making a purchase. As I approached the door, I noticed a signed that read “No Firearms Allowed”. I respected your wishes, but thought if fair that you understand more of the story.

I am a law abiding citizen of the United States of America. As such, I have passed a background check and obtained a license from the state to carry a concealed weapon. By carry a concealed weapon into your business I would not have been a threat to you or your customers. In fact, by the very concealment of the weapon, neither you nor your other customers would have known. If, on the other hand, I were a criminal - your sign would have done nothing to preventing me from entering.

I do respect your personal property rights and was only slightly inconvenienced to take my business to your competition. I hope you realize, regardless of your intentions, that you have banned law abiding citizens exercising a constitutional right and at the same time, serviced notice to criminal elements that they have less chance of meeting resistance in your business than any other.

[ExtremistPullup]

Even better. Selective gun control. Trust him to show up and testify that he told you that when some punk's momma is suing both of you for shooting fer poor little robber?

When visiting some restaurants in Texas they have signs posted CCW only and they post the Title and law if you carry and you don't have one.

Maybe some businesses would change there signs if they have a alt sign like CCW carrying only.

[ExtremistPullup]

I guess I assumed that all banks would prohibit, maybe due to their FDIC agreement? I work for the Post Office, so I can't even leave mine in my car at work, such a bummer. Expo square used to be state property, but was annexed by the City of Tulsa. I wonder if that prohibits any carrying there. What about liquor stores? They're primarily selling alcohol, but not serving it.

ya what about liquor stores

[bettingpython]

Liqour stores do not sell for on premise consumption, no staute against it. You're GTG when you swing by to pick up a bottle of your favorite hooch before going out getting drunk and shooting up rural stop signs with your concealed weapon.

[mouthpiece]

You know what's funny is the UPS hub at 51st and Garnet has a GUNBUSTER sign on the door.
I walk in and say that's pretty funny, you have a no guns sign on the door but you guys ship firearms all day long, how am I supposed to do business here while carrying guns and shipping guns? I didn't get much of an answer, just a question, "Is this going to a dealer?"
HAHA, Now that's stupid. mp

[guntera]

Hello Everone! I'm new to this Association so I'm not real sure how to find all my questions. So here it goes...Does anyone know where I could get an updated list or some idea where you cannot take your concealed weapon? I'm stepping up to the plate and I'm taking my Concealed Weapons course this coming Saturday, so I just want to learn as much as possible about it. Thanks!

[Powerman620]

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_Lawbook_NOV_2007_2_.pdf

[guntera]

Thank you for the link!

[dave_peace]

Hello Everone! I'm new to this Association so I'm not real sure how to find all my questions. So here it goes...Does anyone know where I could get an updated list or some idea where you cannot take your concealed weapon? I'm stepping up to the plate and I'm taking my Concealed Weapons course this coming Saturday, so I just want to learn as much as possible about it. Thanks!

They teach you exactly in the class where you can and can't carry. and if they don't, i bet they will tell you if you ask..

but in short.. no schools, government (local, state, or federal) buildings, places where alcohol is 51% of that establishment's income ( bars, Eskimo joes after 10pm), or any place that has a "no guns" sticker on the door (some gas stations).

Other than that, I think its pretty much up to you if you want to carry inside buildings, I'm not sure if hospitals are legal, but i do know that banks in Oklahoma are legal unless posted otherwise.

[Shoot Summ]

They teach you exactly in the class where you can and can't carry. and if they don't, i bet they will tell you if you ask..

but in short.. no schools, government (local, state, or federal) buildings, places where alcohol is 51% of that establishment's income ( bars, Eskimo joes after 10pm), or any place that has a "no guns" sticker on the door (some gas stations).

Other than that, I think its pretty much up to you if you want to carry inside buildings, I'm not sure if hospitals are legal, but i do know that banks in Oklahoma are legal unless posted otherwise.

Others will chime in I'm sure, but it is always best to refer to the SDA code.

You might check your facts on the items I bolded.

[edwards]

They teach you exactly in the class where you can and can't carry. and if they don't, i bet they will tell you if you ask..

but in short.. no schools, government (local, state, or federal) buildings, places where alcohol is 51% of that establishment's income ( bars, Eskimo joes after 10pm), or any place that has a "no guns" sticker on the door (some gas stations).

Other than that, I think its pretty much up to you if you want to carry inside buildings, I'm not sure if hospitals are legal, but i do know that banks in Oklahoma are legal unless posted otherwise.

I have a question, the "no guns" sticker was brought up in my class, but he wasn't very clear as to whether we needed to heed it or not, he specifically gave a scenario at a movie theater where he said he ignored the sign.

Also, is carrying in a bank, assuming no sign, legal, I mean, you're positive on that? How exactly does the "posted" thing come into play, would it be considered trespassing?

[trade_sniper]

Banks = Legal. That's one place I always want to be carrying, so I do. BOK doesn't have any signs, but some banks in Tulsa do. Seems like I heard that F&M was anti-gun.

Posting a sign is a business owners right. If you carry into some business that has a no-guns sign, and someone see's your gun, they can ask you to leave. If you don't, then it's trespassing. Just remember, concealed means concealed. If they can't see it, they will never know.

[IDtheTarget]

I have a question, the "no guns" sticker was brought up in my class, but he wasn't very clear as to whether we needed to heed it or not, he specifically gave a scenario at a movie theater where he said he ignored the sign.

Then he is guilty of a misdemeanor and if caught can be fined and have his license suspended. The fundamental law in this state is that it is illegal to carry a weapon, with the exception that if you are licensed under the SDA, you are authorized to carry provided you do so in a way authorized by the SDA. If you are carrying in violation of the SDA, then the underlying law applies and you have broken the law.

(Note that, in case people were to claim that this is not the case, subsection 4 of the SDA (http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69787) specifically states:


As provided by Section 1272 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, it is unlawful for any person to carry a concealed handgun in this state, except as hereby authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, or as may otherwise be provided by law.

The relevant law is Oklahoma Statutes Title 21 Section 1272 Unlawful Carry (http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/index.asp?level=1&ftdb=STOKST21&year=), which reads:

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

1. The proper use of guns and knives for hunting, fishing, educational or recreational purposes;

2. The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act (emphasis mine);

3. The carrying, possession and use of any weapon by a peace officer or other person authorized by law to carry a weapon in the performance of official duties and in compliance with the rules of the employing agency;

4. The carrying or use of weapons in a courthouse by a district judge, associate district judge or special district judge within this state, who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and whose name appears on a list maintained by the Administrative Director of the Courts; or

5. The carrying and use of firearms and other weapons provided in this subsection when used for the purpose of living history reenactment. For purposes of this paragraph, "living history reenactment" means depiction of historical characters, scenes, historical life or events for entertainment, education, or historical documentation through the wearing or use of period, historical, antique or vintage clothing, accessories, firearms, weapons, and other implements of the historical period.

B. Any person convicted of violating the foregoing provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable as provided in Section 1276 of this title.

Oklahoma Statute Title 21 Section 1276 Penalty for Violation (http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69744) reads:
Any person violating the provisions of Section 1272 or 1273 shall, upon a first conviction, be adjudged guilty of a misdemeanor and the party offending shall be punished by a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed thirty (30) days or both such fine and imprisonment. On the second and every subsequent violation, the party offending shall, upon conviction, be punished by a fine of not less than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not less than thirty (30) days nor more than three (3) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Any person convicted of violating the provisions of Section 1272 or 1273 after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, shall have the license suspended for a period of six (6) months and shall be liable for an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars ($50.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

Note that SDA license holders are actually liable for both paragraphs above. You'll be convicted of a misdemeanor, fined $100 - $250 for the misdemeanor, then fined an additional $50 fine and lose your license for six months. For the first offense.

If you keep doing this, the OSBI can decide to permanently revoke your right to have the license for 8. Significant character defects of the applicant as evidenced by a misdemeanor criminal record indicating habitual criminal activity; (http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69793)

I am not a lawyer. However, I have spoken with a few on this issue, and each has affirmed my reading of the statues.

In my (not so) humble opinion, whoever told you to ignore the signs is an idiot, and exactly the type of criminal who shouldn't be allowed to wear a gun. I don't frequent places I'm not allowed to carry. If I absolutely MUST enter (like the post office), then I leave my gun in the car. Period.

[MoBoost]

I don't see how trespassing is SDA violation.

I'm no lawyer - but after studying the SDA statistics reports (http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Publications/SDA_Statistics.html) it is clear that for suspension occures only in case of violated preclusion listed in SDA.

Everything else should fall under Section 1290.7 - Limitations of License:
The authority to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to a valid handgun license as authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, shall not be construed to authorize any person to:
...
2. Carry or possess any pistol in any manner or in any place otherwise prohibited by law;
...


I guess if posting a sign automatically makes it a law - I am way wrong.

[tauntdesigns]

Just spent 3 days at St. John hospital (Tulsa) and they have a sign: No Weapons Allowed

[prdator]

In my (not so) humble opinion, whoever told you to ignore the signs is an idiot, and exactly the type of criminal who shouldn't be allowed to wear a gun. I don't frequent places I'm not allowed to carry. If I absolutely MUST enter (like the post office), then I leave my gun in the car. Period.




WOW just WOW... Maybe go read the 2nd admendment and see who the criminal's really are...

IMHO...

[ExtremistPullup]

are any Malls in the OKC area restricted

[BadgeBunny]

....

I am not a lawyer. However, I have spoken with a few on this issue, and each has affirmed my reading of the statues.

In my (not so) humble opinion, whoever told you to ignore the signs is an idiot, and exactly the type of criminal who shouldn't be allowed to wear a gun. I don't frequent places I'm not allowed to carry. If I absolutely MUST enter (like the post office), then I leave my gun in the car. Period.

:shocked: My goodness ...

On a lighter note, you guys gonna start shooting matches again? I thought you had moved off it has been so long since we have seen you and your darling bride.

are any Malls in the OKC area restricted

I don't know about Crossroads -- we avoid that place like the plague. Actually we have gotten to where we pretty much avoid all the malls, but I don't recall seeing a sign at either Penn Square or Quail Springs.

[owu1bag5]

Then he is guilty of a misdemeanor and if caught can be fined and have his license suspended. The fundamental law in this state is that it is illegal to carry a weapon, with the exception that if you are licensed under the SDA, you are authorized to carry provided you do so in a way authorized by the SDA. If you are carrying in violation of the SDA, then the underlying law applies and you have broken the law.

In my (not so) humble opinion, whoever told you to ignore the signs is an idiot, and exactly the type of criminal who shouldn't be allowed to wear a gun. I don't frequent places I'm not allowed to carry. If I absolutely MUST enter (like the post office), then I leave my gun in the car. Period.

my understanding, and many others i have spoken with, is that the sign holds little to no legal standing. when you walk into a place with a no guns sign then you have broken no law, just you are not abiding by the property owner's wishes. if said property owner sees your weapon(which is where being concealed comes into play) and asks you to leave and you do so then there is no law broken. but if you refuse to leave then you are guilty of a trespassing violation. of course this does not pertain to government buildings IE post offices.

maybe i am wrong, maybe not, but that little sign does not stop me from carrying most places.

[Lucky13]

I almost forgot to take my gun off and leave it home going to work today. Had to check it in at the armory instead. Tinker AFB Bldg 230 (where I work) definitely gun free zone.....lol.

[ExtremistPullup]

My job says I can't have a weapon in my car on their property, I can park off there property but they will then Know I definitely have a pistol in my car. Wouldn't that cause more problems?

[Veggie Meat]

My job says I can't have a weapon in my car on their property, I can park off there property but they will then Know I definitely have a pistol in my car. Wouldn't that cause more problems?

Is your employer specifically covered by law (like a school) that says you can't leave it in the parking lot? It's my understanding that by law employers cannot restrict employees from leaving a gun in their vehicle.

Even though Oklahoma is an At-Will state, that would be an easy case of unlawful termination to win, or so I've been told by attorneys who do HR seminars around here.

[ExtremistPullup]

"Weapons of any kind are not permitted on BOKF property under any circumstances other than by authorized security personnel. If you suspect another employee of possessing a weapon on BOKF property you should contact Security immediately."

[owu1bag5]

"Weapons of any kind are not permitted on BOKF property under any circumstances other than by authorized security personnel. If you suspect another employee of possessing a weapon on BOKF property you should contact Security immediately."

that is against the law now. you can carry your weapon as long as it stays in your vehicle.

[justincase]

I think there is a website out there in the making for this. It's supposed to have it so that you can put in your area and it will map places that are not CCW friendly, if I find it I'll post it on here for everyone. I know it would make things alot easier.

[bulbboy]

I keep meaning to print up some postcards that I can just address and mail out after I have come across these businesses. Just facts about criminals will ignore the signs and it is only law abiding citizens (w/FBI background checks) that they are restricting.

[trade_sniper]

I keep meaning to print up some postcards that I can just address and mail out after I have come across these businesses. Just facts about criminals will ignore the signs and it is only law abiding citizens (w/FBI background checks) that they are restricting.

You know what would be cool? If I only had the time, I'd write it. Create an iPhone app (probably any other phone that has GPS or maybe just google maps), that you just click an app button on the phone when you see a no-guns business (you would need to be close enough that the GPS would give us a street address, business name, etc.), and just send you an email that you could print out and mail, already filled out (with whatever paragraph(s) you typed in as a default).

Point. Click. Bitch!

At the same time, it could build an online database of these locations, which you could pull up on your phone.

Then from the online database, you could send all of your forum/internet buddies/friends to specific links and have them mail these businesses also when you find them. 15 letters from different people would carry more weight than 1.

P.S. Hell I could probably duplicate the stamp from one of those Pitney-Bowes postage machines, if you had a color printer. LOL.

[ExtremistPullup]

that is against the law now. you can carry your weapon as long as it stays in your vehicle.

or they can fire me

[Veggie Meat]

or they can fire me

And you can sue for wrongful termination.

[rawhide]

I keep meaning to print up some postcards that I can just address and mail out after I have come across these businesses. Just facts about criminals will ignore the signs and it is only law abiding citizens (w/FBI background checks) that they are restricting. Bulboy
__________________
These are available from concealedcarry.com forum:

http://binaries.concealedcarryforum.com/ccwsign/1.pdf

http://binaries.concealedcarryforum.com/ccwsign/2.pdf

[ExtremistPullup]

can I CWW in the Wichita Mountains & Wildlife Refuge.

[E.Richardson]

I sent the first link of the "No Concealed Weapons" business cards off to my printer and I will be handing them out or mailing them now that I have my license. I've always carried but now I have the license to do it lawfully. I will not support the companies that don't support law abiding citizens.

[rawhide]

I sent the first link of the "No Concealed Weapons" business cards off to my printer and I will be handing them out or mailing them now that I have my license. I've always carried but now I have the license to do it lawfully. I will not support the companies that don't support law abiding citizens.

Here's some already prepared:

http://www.concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=792

[Glocktogo]

The BOK Center and Tulsa Convention Center are now off limits to off duty LEO's carrying firearms. I just confirmed this with the source directly. You might want to let your FoP representative know about this change in policy, along with anyone else you deem necessary. Full text of the notification below:

Dear Chief or Sheriff,
The BOK Center is pleased to entertain your off duty officers or deputies during our many events at the BOK Center and the Tulsa Convention Center. Because of various reasons, our policy is that no guns are allowed into either building except for on duty law enforcement personnel. We have had incidents in the past when off duty law enforcement attended one of our events and did partake of the adult beverages. It is also a bad idea for the off duty officers carrying concealed weapons in the large crowds we often have in the BOK Center or Convention Center. The only exception to this policy is the off duty officers hired and employed by the management company of both buildings, SMG Tulsa.
We are aware that your officers or deputies are certified law enforcement officers of the State of Oklahoma and we sincerely welcome their presence at our events. However because of our policy, that we strictly adhere to, we would appreciate it if they would leave their guns at home or locked in their vehicles when coming to these two venues.
We sincerely hope that our policy does not offend you or your personnel but we would ask for your assistance in this matter.
Thank you in advance,
Dan Brown
Security Manager, SMG Tulsa

[_CY_]

thank you... had been dropping my boy off at school on street next to school as not to enter on school property.

this means it's lawful to drive on to school property to drop off my son while CCW.

C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:

1. A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property.

[Milezc9]

thank you... had been dropping my boy off at school on street next to school as not to enter on school property.

this means it's lawful to drive on to school property to drop off my son while CCW.

If you have a CCL its ok to have a gun in your car on school property as long as you stay in the car with it. as soon as you leave the car with or without it while on school property you're breaking the law. at least this is what i learned in my class

[shootermcgavin]

If you have a CCL its ok to have a gun in your car on school property as long as you stay in the car with it. as soon as you leave the car with or without it while on school property you're breaking the law. at least this is what i learned in my class

That's what I gathered when I read the SDA handbook before I took my class. Of course, my instructor disagreed with me when I said that was what it was. I didn't want to be the know it all guy so I just ok, you're right. Then I went home and proved to myself I was actually right.

Just in case that sounded twisted, I am saying my instructor was wrong and I was right, that you can bring a concealed weapon on school grounds so long as you stay in the vehicle with your weapon. You can even bring a hunting rifle so long as it is properly displayed and you follow the same guidelines; staying in your vehicle with the weapon at all times.

[Don E.]

can I CWW in the Wichita Mountains & Wildlife Refuge.

Yes, Wildlife Refuges are included in with National Parks

[mln1963]

I've always carried but now I have the license to do it lawfully. I will not support the companies that don't support law abiding citizens.

I don't know why but I get a really good chuckle out of this post. The guy who just got legal is spouting off about law abiding citizens. That is good stuff right there!

[TFS]

Banks = Legal. That's one place I always want to be carrying, so I do. BOK doesn't have any signs, but some banks in Tulsa do. Seems like I heard that F&M was anti-gun.

Today I noticed that The First Fidelity Bank in Midwest City had no weapons signs.

[rlongnt]

Stillwater Milling Company has one, that is just wrong in my book.


For what it is worth Stillwater Milling also had a hat that said made in USA but when you look under that tag it said Vietnam.


I guess I will buy my stuff from Atwoods or Tractor Supply from now on.

[mike pt40]

When I took the ccw class the instructor told us that unless it was prohibited by law you can carry anywhere....... If I carry into a 7-11 with a posted no wepons sign am I breaking a law ??

[ExtremistPullup]

When I took the ccw class the instructor told us that unless it was prohibited by law you can carry anywhere....... If I carry into a 7-11 with a posted no wepons sign am I breaking a law ??

trespassing

[penman53]

Bank of the West is not posted either. I actually asked them about it one day, they said that when the were Commercial Federal they had signs on the door. When Bank of the West took over, the told the bank people to remove the signs immediately. The must realize that the people carry legally are not the persons they need to worry about.

[tslabaugh]

When Bank of the West took over, the told the bank people to remove the signs immediately.


Thats really cool! It is a way of showing support for CCW... I can dig it!

[scubaokie]

Isn't the Shawnee Wal-Mart in the Mall? It could be a mall policy not WM.

[gillman7]

I don't know why but I get a really good chuckle out of this post. The guy who just got legal is spouting off about law abiding citizens. That is good stuff right there!

Except for the fact that he was excercising his rights, as opposed to unconstitutional legislation....

When I took the ccw class the instructor told us that unless it was prohibited by law you can carry anywhere....... If I carry into a 7-11 with a posted no wepons sign am I breaking a law ??

trespassing

No law broken, it would be trespassing only if the business noticed your firearm, asked you to leave, and you did not comply.

Isn't the Shawnee Wal-Mart in the Mall? It could be a mall policy not WM.

Gun Buster signs are not enforceable, the only places not to carry are listed in the SDA. We try to make this too complicated.:smash:

[Wes Kenney]

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this, so I'll give it a shot here. I have to go to the post office every day. Am I okay to have my pistol in my car in the parking lot and leave it there while I run inside to check my box, or have I violated the law simply by driving in to the lot while carrying?

[trade_sniper]

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this, so I'll give it a shot here. I have to go to the post office every day. Am I okay to have my pistol in my car in the parking lot and leave it there while I run inside to check my box, or have I violated the law simply by driving in to the lot while carrying?

Leaving it in your car, in the parking lot of the post office is fine.

[Buzzdraw]

Leaving it in your car, in the parking lot is fine. I do the same thing when I have to run into the kids' school or the post office.

I'm sure trade_sniper meant that he parks completely off school property (such as on the public street) when he stashes his carry gun before entering school property.

[trade_sniper]

I'm sure trade_sniper meant that he parks completely off school property (such as on the public street) when he stashes his carry gun before entering school property.

Sorry, I mispoke, actually I've always done it in the Post Office parking lot.

[Buzzdraw]

It is a significant breech of the law to store a firearm unattended on school property. The penalties are severe. Please review the statute below.

Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Section 1280.1 - Possession of Firearm on School Property

POSSESSION OF FIREARM ON SCHOOL PROPERTY

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his or her possession on any public or private school property or while in any school bus or vehicle used by any school for transportation of students or teachers any firearm or weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title, except as provided in subsection C of this section or as otherwise authorized by law.

B. "School property" means any publicly or privately owned property held for purposes of elementary, secondary or vocational-technical education, and shall not include property owned by public school districts or private educational entities where such property is leased or rented to an individual or corporation and used for purposes other than educational.

C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:

1. A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property;

2. A gun or knife used for the purposes of participating in the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation certified hunter training education course or any other hunting, fishing, safety or firearms training courses, or a recognized firearms sports event, team shooting program or competition, or living history reenactment, provided the course or event is approved by the principal or chief administrator of the school where the course or event is offered, and provided the weapon is properly displayed or stored as required by law pending participation in the course, event, program or competition; and

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

D. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable by a fine not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), and imprisonment for not more than two (2) years. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall have the license permanently revoked and shall be liable for an administrative fine of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

[bettingpython]

No, actually I've always done it in the parking lot.

You are in violation of state law and have committed a felony by leaving your vehicle when on school property with a firearm in the vehicle, the law is pretty specific you may drive on to school propeerty to pickup and drop off a student as long as you and the gun remain in the vehicle.

[bettingpython]

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this, so I'll give it a shot here. I have to go to the post office every day. Am I okay to have my pistol in my car in the parking lot and leave it there while I run inside to check my box, or have I violated the law simply by driving in to the lot while carrying?

The public parking lot is not prohibited.

[gillman7]

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this, so I'll give it a shot here. I have to go to the post office every day. Am I okay to have my pistol in my car in the parking lot and leave it there while I run inside to check my box, or have I violated the law simply by driving in to the lot while carrying?

OK, you asked two questions, Yes to leaving it in your car, do not carry into the Post Office. No, you have not violated any law by driving into the parking lot with a CCW on your person or in your car.

Leaving it in your car, in the parking lot is fine. I do the same thing when I have to run into the kids' school or the post office.

The only time you can have a gun on school grounds, parking lot, or any area like that is if you are in your car, dropping off or picking up a child. If I were you, I would not admit to felonious activity on the internet.

[trade_sniper]

Sorry, I misread/mispoke. I always do it in the parking lot for the POST OFFICE. Normally I am only dropping off or picking up a child at school.

[DaveTec]

Indeed, if you have to run in to the school, be sure to park your car off property.

[ExtremistPullup]

b. any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by any entity offering any professional sporting event which is open to the public for admission, or by any entity engaged in pari-mutuel wagering authorized by law,

does the mean you can't carry to the cox center during a Thunders game.
(not sure if the cox center has a gunbuster sign anyway)

[B1rd]

Seems to me a sporting event with over 10,000 people is off limits.

[blutch]

Is it a felony to carry in the post office like it is at a school? Is it a felony to leave the weapon locked in your car in a school parking lot while you go inside?

B

[Veggie Meat]

Is it a felony to carry in the post office like it is at a school? Is it a felony to leave the weapon locked in your car in a school parking lot while you go inside?

B

I'm not sure on the Post Office, but I assume YES.

On the school, YES IT IS A FELONY. It would be highly unlikely that you would get caught, however I don't recommend it. Weigh the risks.

[blutch]

I don't want to take any risks. I'm aware that it isn't legal to leave it locked in your car on school property. I would just like to know if it is felonious to do so. For instance, carrying on university property is not a felony - $250 fine and los of license.

I'm only wondering if leaving it in your car on school grounds while going inside is the same penalty.

Thanks

B

[trade_sniper]

It is a significant breech of the law to store a firearm unattended on school property. The penalties are severe. Please review the statute below.

Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Section 1280.1 - Possession of Firearm on School Property

POSSESSION OF FIREARM ON SCHOOL PROPERTY

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his or her possession on any public or private school property or while in any school bus or vehicle used by any school for transportation of students or teachers any firearm or weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title, except as provided in subsection C of this section or as otherwise authorized by law.

B. "School property" means any publicly or privately owned property held for purposes of elementary, secondary or vocational-technical education, and shall not include property owned by public school districts or private educational entities where such property is leased or rented to an individual or corporation and used for purposes other than educational.

C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:

1. A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property;

2. A gun or knife used for the purposes of participating in the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation certified hunter training education course or any other hunting, fishing, safety or firearms training courses, or a recognized firearms sports event, team shooting program or competition, or living history reenactment, provided the course or event is approved by the principal or chief administrator of the school where the course or event is offered, and provided the weapon is properly displayed or stored as required by law pending participation in the course, event, program or competition; and

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

D. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable by a fine not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), and imprisonment for not more than two (2) years. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall have the license permanently revoked and shall be liable for an administrative fine of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

[blutch]

Thank you for the clarification.

[6shooter]

Anyone know if the IMax in Tulsa posted for no guns

[Iwant1]

does the mean you can't carry to the cox center during a Thunders game.
(not sure if the cox center has a gunbuster sign anyway)

I know the Ford Center is owned by the State, I'm sure the Cox is too.

[B1rd]

Anyone know if the IMax in Tulsa posted for no guns

It is not illegal to carry at the movies..... I was there last Friday, did not notice any signs, did not really look for one.

[Iwant1]

It is not illegal to carry at the movies..... I was there last Friday, did not notice any signs, did not really look for one.

I wonder if it's owned by the State? Which brings up another question. There's a little park where I live and it has a building there on the property. I have no idea who owns this thing. Am I supposed to call the City I'm in and ask who owns the park? Same for other areas, how are we supposed to know who owns buildings on what may or may not be state property, if they're not going to post it?

[B1rd]

I don't believe the state owns any movie theaters. Can't imagine why they should.

[Iwant1]

I don't believe the state owns any movie theaters. Can't imagine why they should.

That's my point we shouldn't have to assume things aren't owned. When a law is passed and implemented, shouldn't the law makers make it as user friendly as possible for the public to have complete knowledge of the law and be able to abide by it? Unless, there intentions are otherwise. Maybe they fail to remember these things.

[6shooter]

No signs at Tulsa IMAX.

[B1rd]

The main thing to think about is this: If it is not illegal according to state law, I don't worry about even looking for signs. It is CONCEALED! If I were caught and asked to leave a place that is posted, I would leave.

[bulbboy]

Anyone know if the IMax in Tulsa posted for no guns

They did have signs on the movie side - didn't notice on the Imax side.

[Veggie Meat]

I know the Ford Center is owned by the State, I'm sure the Cox is too.

However, it is not a building for the purpose of doing business with the public.

But a Thunder game is a professional sporting event.

[cbolt01]

The main thing to think about is this: If it is not illegal according to state law, I don't worry about even looking for signs. It is CONCEALED! If I were caught and asked to leave a place that is posted, I would leave.

Agreed, I'm not going to take off my gun every time I go somewhere. What would be the point in carrying at all! It's a ''CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT'' so just keep it concealed.

[jphillipw]

Check this out

"c. any property adjacent to a structure, building, or office space in which concealed weapons are prohibited by the provisions of this section,"

The house my fiance and I are buying backs up to an elementary school. After our fence, the school property starts. Does this mean I can't even have a gun in my home? (we are both CCW holders)

[CASTRATE]

there is a Chinese restaurant on the west side of Autozone off of 31st between Garnett and 129th E. Ave. that doesn't allow CC

[Soonerstorms]

Quick question hopefully somebody can answer.... What are the laws for carrying at a church that meets at a private school?

[Veggie Meat]

FastLane (small gas station chain in this area) has gunbuster signs up as of this morning.

Because of their $20 unlimited refill 22oz mug, they were the exclusive gasoline vendor for my house. They have now lost $500/month from us.

[ExtremistPullup]

FastLane (small gas station chain in this area) has gunbuster signs up as of this morning.

Because of their $20 unlimited refill 22oz mug, they were the exclusive gasoline vendor for my house. They have now lost $500/month from us.

have you talked to the owner about removing it?

[Iwant1]

Has anyone heard anything about 7-11's? Everyone that I have seen with a No Gun sign has now removed them in the last few months?

Anyone else notice this?

[Talacker]

Quick question hopefully somebody can answer.... What are the laws for carrying at a church that meets at a private school?

I believe if it is leased for a non-educational purpose, you're good. But check the SDA to be sure.

[BReeves]

Haven't read this whole thread so this may have already been said. I think it's pretty stupid of the owners and managers of any business like banks, credit unions, fast food, Quick Trip etc. to post No Gun signs.

These are the places that get robed and people get killed. The bad guy isn't going to pay any attention to the sign other than feel he is safer robing an establishment that has a sign rather than one that doesn't.

Some peoples logic just escapes me... I don't get it...

[tRdoc]

Curious.... I went to a local establishment the other night to have a brew....

Now, I didn't take my gun inside with me, because part of my purpose was to have a brew (or two). So I left it in the car, and proceeded to have dinner with a colleague and then left for home.

In the meantime, I've wondered.... would it be legal to carry concealed in this establishment if I decided to just go have lunch? It is NOT a "bar", but I'm not sure that the primary purpose is food, either.... It's technically billed as a "Pub and Grill" I believe. No way for me to determine if the primary purpose is food or alcohol, I don't guess....

Any thoughts?

Of course, I have no intention of carrying concealed after drinking.

Although.... if I have a beer or two and leave the weapon in the glovebox, when I leave, I am technically still "carrying" as it is a loaded weapon in an automobile and thus covered by the CCW permit, as opposed to an unloaded weapon in an automobile and allowed by state law for most anyone. I don't personally see that it is better to actually remove the gun from the glovebox, remove the magazine, empty the chamber, load the round back in the magazine and place both back in the glovebox. Isn't it better to let sleeping dogs lie? I mean, I am not inebriated, of course, but the argument could be made that even after one or two beers (20oz Murphy's Red, in this case :) ), a person's reflexes and/or coordination could be impaired, yet not legally speaking over the limit to drive. Performing all these actions in the confines of a darkened automobile seems overly complex when one could just leave well enough alone in the glovebox and drive home. I would, of course, NEVER turn on the dome light in such a situation, inviting passers-by to an easy look at me fumbling with a loaded weapon in the vehicle, lol. In my raggedy hoopty, they would immediately surmise I was about to either rob the nearest liquor store or just commence shooting innocents forthwith... :(


So.... I guess my second question is, should I refrain from ever consuming alcohol if I've brought my weapon from home? Is locking it up in the car and leaving it in the glovebox considered safe "enough"? Or should I make a trip home to drop off my weapon before proceeding to dinner with my wife where we might have a glass of wine or two?

These are serious questions, I'm not looking to start trouble, just wondering what might be the best way to handle things.

[Veggie Meat]

Curious.... I went to a local establishment the other night to have a brew....

Now, I didn't take my gun inside with me, because part of my purpose was to have a brew (or two). So I left it in the car, and proceeded to have dinner with a colleague and then left for home.

In the meantime, I've wondered.... would it be legal to carry concealed in this establishment if I decided to just go have lunch? It is NOT a "bar", but I'm not sure that the primary purpose is food, either.... It's technically billed as a "Pub and Grill" I believe. No way for me to determine if the primary purpose is food or alcohol, I don't guess....

Any thoughts?

Of course, I have no intention of carrying concealed after drinking.

Although.... if I have a beer or two and leave the weapon in the glovebox, when I leave, I am technically still "carrying" as it is a loaded weapon in an automobile and thus covered by the CCW permit, as opposed to an unloaded weapon in an automobile and allowed by state law for most anyone. I don't personally see that it is better to actually remove the gun from the glovebox, remove the magazine, empty the chamber, load the round back in the magazine and place both back in the glovebox. Isn't it better to let sleeping dogs lie? I mean, I am not inebriated, of course, but the argument could be made that even after one or two beers (20oz Murphy's Red, in this case :) ), a person's reflexes and/or coordination could be impaired, yet not legally speaking over the limit to drive. Performing all these actions in the confines of a darkened automobile seems overly complex when one could just leave well enough alone in the glovebox and drive home. I would, of course, NEVER turn on the dome light in such a situation, inviting passers-by to an easy look at me fumbling with a loaded weapon in the vehicle, lol. In my raggedy hoopty, they would immediately surmise I was about to either rob the nearest liquor store or just commence shooting innocents forthwith... :(


So.... I guess my second question is, should I refrain from ever consuming alcohol if I've brought my weapon from home? Is locking it up in the car and leaving it in the glovebox considered safe "enough"? Or should I make a trip home to drop off my weapon before proceeding to dinner with my wife where we might have a glass of wine or two?

These are serious questions, I'm not looking to start trouble, just wondering what might be the best way to handle things.

I think its BryanDP that has all the knowledge about bar -vs- restaurant, but they way that I recall is that if it has a 21+ sign on the door then it is likely a bar. In Oklahoma, ENTIRE establishements are licensed as either a bar or restaurant, and the bar area of a bonafide restaurant (say, Chili's) is not a "bar" in the legal sense. I'll see if I can dig it up, but I asked a question quite a while back about using the "express lane" (what I call the bar area at restaurants that have them, since I don't have even one drink and then drive... not because I think that one drink is over the limit, but because I don't want to give an officer who's having a bad night anything to hold against me).

[Veggie Meat]

have you talked to the owner about removing it?

Not yet. I need to find the time and formulate the conversation first. The owner has a lot of stuff and can be quite influential in this area. Its a hand that I wouldn't want to bite because it could be a useful connection down the road.

Haven't read this whole thread so this may have already been said. I think it's pretty stupid of the owners and managers of any business like banks, credit unions, fast food, Quick Trip etc. to post No Gun signs.

These are the places that get robed and people get killed. The bad guy isn't going to pay any attention to the sign other than feel he is safer robing an establishment that has a sign rather than one that doesn't.

Some peoples logic just escapes me... I don't get it...

...and that's why I avoid them. I see it as a statistical increase in likelyhood of "it" happening to me.

[ExtremistPullup]

OKC zoo doesn't have signs its self, but the gift shop and offices have gun buster signs.

I didn't see any on the Oklahoma Science museum.

[ExtremistPullup]

I work at Bancfirst at the Cash vault, and I asked them about the

"employee no concealed weapons on bank property"

they got back to me with

"I don't see a problem with keeping it in your locked vehicle".