More Training Coffee Talk

[Michael Brown]

From Bat Masterson on winning a gunfight:

"The least important thing is speed. The second least important thing is accuracy. The most important aspect in winning a gunfight is the ability to preserve the personality."

Unless you're an extremely cool or experienced customer, how do we achieve this?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Michael Brown

[berettaman]

Bat Masterson was so full of $h!+ his eyes were brown.He made a somewhat bogus reputation on the over-hyped and most times made-up stories of the press which was indicitive of the late 19th century.His storied tales of he and Wyat that he sold in his latter days were mostly to preserve his personality.
How many Bat Masterson Colts are supposedly laying around in safes nowdays.He sold hundreds of them in the early teens and twenty's."this little beauty was once owned by Bat Masterson"

His statement is however correct,he did preserve the reputation.

Make up a good tale of self heroism while in fact you were just in the wrong place at the right time,lucky enough not to soil yourself and you were carrying a gun.
:coffee:

[Michael Brown]

Bat Masterson was so full of $h!+ his eyes were brown.He made a somewhat bogus reputation on the over-hyped and most times made-up stories of the press which was indicitive of the late 19th century.His storied tales of he and Wyat that he sold in his latter days were mostly to preserve his personality.
How many Bat Masterson Colts are supposedly laying around in safes nowdays.He sold hundreds of them in the early teens and twenty's."this little beauty was once owned by Bat Masterson"

His statement is however correct,he did preserve the reputation.

Make up a good tale of self heroism while in fact you were just in the wrong place at the right time,lucky enough not to soil yourself and you were carrying a gun.
:coffee:

While it is clear that Masterson preyed on the stupidity of the public when he bought dozens of Colt revolvers and sold them to stupid clients, can we really relegate him to a guy who was simply "in the wrong place at the right time,lucky enough not to soil yourself and you were carrying a gun"?

If you believe so, I whole-heartedly disagree.

We simply don't have many modern citizens from whom to glean insights into individual combat.

His statement mirrors the experience of a number of indviduals wo have been involved in deadly force scenarios and if you throw the baby out with the bath water, you cannot consider yourself a student of this discipline.

I do not disregard anyone's opinion who has seen combat since they have an experience that 99.99% of the population does not. I can glean something from all of them.

For that reason we will confine this discussion to the question posed, as any intelligent person can surmise that Masterson's tales were not always cut from whole cloth.

Michael Brown

[liliysdad]

Most, if not all, famous personalities from the 19th and early 20th century are partially fictitious in nature. This was often not due to the individual's efforts, but to the very nature of the press at that time. The bulk of the written recordings of these people's actions were taken not by journalistic reporters, but dime store novelists that thrived on glamour and romance. These very same people were often the same men who sold stories to the newspapers. The dramatizations from which the legends came cannot be blamed on the person, but the author.

Men such as Bat Masterson, Wyatt Earp, Bill Tilghman, and countless others often capitalized on this, but in those times, who could blame them? The pay for a Lawmen was a pittance, and they very often did not live long. It would be pure lunacy to turn down this type of oppurtunity.

This being said, each story told of thse men has some root in fact. It is proven that these men saw the elephant, and lived. While this is not enough to qualify them as warriors, it does go a long way towards that end.


By the way, Masterson was known to buy beat old guns and resell them as his own. While this might not be quite ethical, it is far from false. When he purchased them, they were his guns.

[RDS]

Back to the original "Personality" post. Let's pretend the connotation/usage of the word "personality" might have changed a little over the past, say, 100+/- years.

I'd bet he was talking about the same "personality" that a skilled experienced battlefield medic might display attending to wounded while under fire, or the single minded selfless heroics of "Joe the Ragman" as he dives into the river to save a drowning child,

Keep your head while all around you are losing theirs...

[Eagle]

To a degree I think he is talking about confidence. One think to have faced an empty whiskey bottle and quite another to face the barrel of a gun in Mr. Masterson's hand.

So, how do we achieve this? The best training you can find to increase your knowledge base and correct practice of that knowledge to increase your skill level. The more you know and the better you become at something, the more confident you are doing it. I think the most common mistake we make is to stop going to training classes and/or stop practicing. Just my 2 cents worth.:wink2:

[J.P.]

I think the most common mistake we make is to stop going to training classes and/or stop practicing. Just my 2 cents worth.:wink2:

+1

[Hoov]

Eagle summed it up in one word; training. I also agree with MB, you can have too much confidence in a weapon.

[green country shooter]

Coolness under fire is a rare trait, but it seems that almost everyone can improve with training. Our troops in Iraq are showing that if you can keep your head and get a good sight picture when people are hip-firing full-auto AKs at you, you will usually be fine.

[savedbygrace]

I am going to agree on training, I work in a Hospital as a Respiratory Therapist and have for 14 years, one of my duties is one the the Code team when there is any emergency that requires life saving skills I'm required to be there if its a heart attack, gun shot, mva or other trauma. During these times you find yourself in a zone where your focus goes back to your training no matter who or what is on the table. We all kinda of complain about having to take the same classes (BLS, ACLS, PALS, ect) year after year but if it were my family I would feel beter knowing these people keep up year after year. I would think the same would apply in defensive training this is certainly one area I could improve on. . .

[Michael Brown]

I am going to agree on training, I work in a Hospital as a Respiratory Therapist and have for 14 years, one of my duties is one the the Code team when there is any emergency that requires life saving skills I'm required to be there if its a heart attack, gun shot, mva or other trauma. During these times you find yourself in a zone where your focus goes back to your training no matter who or what is on the table. We all kinda of complain about having to take the same classes (BLS, ACLS, PALS, ect) year after year but if it were my family I would feel beter knowing these people keep up year after year. I would think the same would apply in defensive training this is certainly one area I could improve on. . .

Your comparison is a perfect one.

Its just like major airline pilots spending mind-numbing hours in the flight simulator and creatig the stimulus-response needed to control a multi-engine aircraft when something goes awry.

Unfortunately 99% of gun-owners or self-defense practitioners never reach this level of competence.

We're fortunate that our medical personnel and pilots are better trained.:thumb:

Michael Brown

[trade_sniper]

Exposure, knowledge and experience breeds confidence, comfort and skill. People fear things to which they have no experience with or exposure to, almost an ignorance if you will. If they will control, or at least subdue their fear and meet it head on, to experience the event/subject/action once, they have conquered. Then, to continue to experience it over and over, often in different varieties or scenarios produces more tolerance, confidence, comfort and finally skill, not only to the fear of the specific event/subject/action, but also to all of its peripheral aspects, allowing for a cooler head as well as more confident and precise actions because there is less fear, the most primal of all human emotions.

I believe that some are born with more of an ability to remain calm and cool under extreme pressure or danger. Perhaps it genetic, I really don't know, but I have seen the difference first hand repeatedly in life. Even if its an event/subject/action to which they haven't been exposed to previously. For those not born with this extra edge or advantage, similar results can be achieved through exposure, experience and knowledge, such as training, preferably of many different varieties.

I like the fact that MB conducts his training not only in a regular classroom environment, but also in many different locations, alleys, parking lots, perhaps a room full of furniture or inside a car, etc. It is very unlikely (although not impossible) for you to be attacked in a classroom (or range). You will be attacked while you're going about your daily life, in different locations, each with different obstacles, conditions, benefits and disadvantages.

Exposure, Experience and Knowledge = Confidence, Comfort and Skill

At least thats my opinion.

[NikatKimber]

Like your sig line there TradeSniper!
I am going to compare to something I have experience with things going wrong: driving. I have only been driving for 4 years, but there have been several times that if I had panicked, I'd be dead now. When I started driving, my hands would sweat, I was nervous, and couldn't hold a conversation worth a flip. When I lost control of my car momentarily on I40 at Tinker in the rain after driving a couple years, there was no sweat. I knew that if something was going to save the situation, I had to THINK, REACT based on experience and training. I came out of the curve with my heart coming out of my chest, but nothing else.
I feel the same about firearms. The first time I shot a handgun, it made my hands sweat, and I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it. I can now reliably hit what I am shooting at. And maintain a "cool" factor doing so. I will continue to practice with my guns, and will get as much training as possible. I think there is a lot to say about being able to keep calm and collected in harms way. If I got flustered, and hooked the sight of my gun on the holster, it wouldn't matter how fast I can draw at the range, and how accurate I shoot, cuz I wouldn't get a chance to shoot. There is also much to being calm and alert before the bad stuff happens.