Staple Drills 1

[Michael Brown]

One of the most important live fire drills for self-defense is shooting through the line of presentation.

This entails beginning literally with your head against the target in front of you and your gun holstered.

From there these are the steps:

1) Obtain a good fending position that will put your non-gunside arm clearly out of the line of fire and in a position to allow you to minimize blows to your head. The elbow cover is the one I use most frequently.

2) Obtain your firing grip and draw to a retention position that aims te first two or three rounds downward toward the pelvis to guarantee that you can use your fending position and still get rounds on target.

3) Begin firing as you back up. Eventually raise the gun to eyeline but not too soon. All rounds fired form under two to three yards should be fired from a tight retention position, not extended.

4) Eventually obtain a two-handed grip. I generally only do so when I'm done firing and do the drill one-handed.

the drill should take anywhere from three to ten seconds and you should be firing four to eight rounds.

Conduct a post-shooting procedure of your choice and repeat unti proficient.

Do the drill DRY first until completely mastered. Then go live with slow steps before trying it at moderate or full speeds.

Enjoy!

Any questions are welcome.

Michael Brown

Here is a pic of what Mike is describing:

[skyydiver]

Very cool. Thanks! Would you mind describing elbow cover? Can I assume that is an arm almost horizontal with elbow in front of the nose? Unfortunately, I obviously have no formal fighting background. I'm a lover. ;) Seriously, thanks for the tip.

[Michael Brown]

That is correct reference the elbow cover.

The fine points are to make certian your nose touches the bicep and that the arm stays attached to the head, not bouncing around loose.

Michael Brown

[Mack45]

Michael,
Thank you for the drill instructions. Like skydiver, I have not had any training of this nature. I find instructions of this nature VERY valuable and want to thank you for sharing your skills with us. I hope that you dont mind my questions reguarding terminology. Can you describe a " retention position "? I assume this means retention of the firearm. Can you describe the body mechanics? Also, Exactly when should you fire the first shot, after drawing to the retention position or after you start to back up. Or do you draw as you start backing up?
Thanks again Michael.

[J.P.]

Thanks for posting,Mike.

Folks,
Mike takes training more seriously than you could probably begin to imagine,and his real world experience lends credibility to his knowledge.
We are *very* lucky to have him on board,contributing great tips like this and hope to see more of the same.

[Michael Brown]

Michael,
Thank you for the drill instructions. Like skydiver, I have not had any training of this nature. I find instructions of this nature VERY valuable and want to thank you for sharing your skills with us. I hope that you dont mind my questions reguarding terminology. Can you describe a " retention position "? I assume this means retention of the firearm. Can you describe the body mechanics? Also, Exactly when should you fire the first shot, after drawing to the retention position or after you start to back up. Or do you draw as you start backing up?
Thanks again Michael.

I use a retention position that is referred to as the #2 position for its step in the draw process. I do not use the most common retention position as used in IDPA or taught in the Speed Rock by a number of trainers. If you do force on force training, it becomes apparent that such techniques only work on paper targets.

The #2 position differs in that it was developed in force on force as opposed to on a range. The #2 is also a natural position in the combat drawstroke so it requires no additional techniques be added as I believe in minimizing physical decisions in combat.

What you want is to draw the gun straight up, leave your thumb flagged (very important), and raise your elbow to an extreme degree such that your shoulder bunches very tight and keep your wrist locked (also very important). The bunching of the shoulder is the kinesthetic cue that your line of fire is clear of all your own body parts.

The gun should be pointed somewhere in the area of your target's belly or pelvis, not the upper torso as that will come as you shoot through the line of presentation.

The gun should be up tight against your pectoral. Consistency of this position is absolutely vital to insure that you know your gun won't cross any of your body parts including your fending arm.

You should fire the first shot as soon as you are clear to shoot. If you have read some of my previous posts, this is part of what is meant by timing being more important than speed in the draw.

Hope that helps.

I'll deal with issues like muzzle aversion in a future post and why these are mitigated by using the #2 position.

Michael Brown

*PICS ADDED*

[brennan]

Is there anyway you can post pics for us visual people.

[Michael Brown]

Is there anyway you can post pics for us visual people.

J.P. and I are coordinating on some pics. I'm computer challenged so it may take a couple days. :wink2:

Michael Brown

[J.P.]

Where should your eyes be focused throughout the various stages of this drill?

[Michael Brown]

On the threat.

At this range its more a question of body mechanics than marksmanship.

Michael Brown

[Mack45]

I, too will find the pics very helpful. I am sure that after I learn some of the terminology and basic positions I wont ask as many newbee type questions. I especially would like to see a good photo of the retention grip that Michael describes.

[c10bonanza]

J.P. and I are coordinating on some pics. I'm computer challenged so it may take a couple days. :wink2:

Michael Brown


What is the status of the pics?

[J.P.]

I haven't received them from mike yet.

[Mack45]

Hey Michael, Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope that you are still with us and in good shape. please check in if only to say howdy.

[J.P.]

I think he's on Christmas break.

[Mack45]

I can understand that.

[Michael Brown]

Been out of town in the the land of American communism.

I'll try to work on the pics.

Michael Brown

[Mack45]

sounds like maybe Kalifornia

[Michael Brown]

Nope. Its equally powerful twin, Massachusetts.

Michael Brown

[Mack45]

That was my second guess, the kommonwealth of Massachusetts. Makes me glad that I am an Okie.

[J.P.]

pic added to original post.

[Mack45]

Michael and J.P.
Thanks for the pics. A perfect example of a picture worth a thousand words. The first picture says it all. And thanks for the close up detail of the retention grip. May I ask why the flagged thumb?

[RandyDTC]

Yes, nice work. I like what you guys are doing.

How about rotating the pistol so the muzzle is parallel to the ground once you get into position 2? It would retain all the advantages mentioned plus will yield good HCOM hits. The first shots are the most critical ones - make good hits with them. I also like the support hand in the center of the chest. That keeps the hand and arm behind the muzzle should you fire from retention and also keeps it in a location where it is easy to transition into a two handed shooting position.

The thumb 'flagged' works with tucked shirts in that it won't hang on your clothing. It can be more problematic when drawing from concealment. More importantly though, the flagged thumb weakens the overall grip. I would like to hear and understand the reasons you have for doing this.

I will try to post a picture too....

Randy

[Michael Brown]

Yes, nice work. I like what you guys are doing.

How about rotating the pistol so the muzzle is parallel to the ground once you get into position 2? It would retain all the advantages mentioned plus will yield good HCOM hits. The first shots are the most critical ones - make good hits with them. I also like the support hand in the center of the chest. That keeps the hand and arm behind the muzzle should you fire from retention and also keeps it in a location where it is easy to transition into a two handed shooting position.

The thumb 'flagged' works with tucked shirts in that it won't hang on your clothing. It can be more problematic when drawing from concealment. More importantly though, the flagged thumb weakens the overall grip. I would like to hear and understand the reasons you have for doing this.

I will try to post a picture too....

Randy

The problem is that rotating the pistol so that the muzzle is parallel with the ground retains NONE of the advantages of the two position.

The technique you describe is similar to the many common retention shooting positions that have been taught for decades. The problem is these solutions were developed on the range against a static target, not against a live adversary.

When you use a position like the one you describe against a static target there is no problem because the target doesn't grab or strike you and you don't use your other hand for fending or striking.

Against a live adversary, he DOES grab and strike you and you DO use the other hand for fending and striking. If you keep the other hand in the center of the chest, this guarantees you will be hit or cut or shot by whatever the adversary is attacking with. This is a classic example of a firing range technique. One that works against a target but not against a resisting opponent.

Let's think about the context: You are shooting because someone is posing a deadly threat. You need to impede that deadly threat at this distance not just shoot. Otherwise you can simply have the satisfaction that the suspect died with you.

If your arm and hand are fending or striking, they are right where the opponent's center of mass is that you are trying to shoot at. Hopefully everyone will see the problem with this.

In kissing distance shooting, the issue is body mechanics not hand-eye coordination as in standard firearms training. What you are suggesting is trying to apply a hand-eye solution to a body mechanics problem. You must KNOW that it's safe to shoot at this distance without confirming it visually and the only way to do this is through consistent kinesthetic alignment via body mechanics.

The other issue is that the torso rotates easily in kissing distance shooting. The hips do not. Thus you can see why we have so many misses when shooting at 3 yards and in during police shootings.

In reference to the flagged thumb, I don't think you understand its purpose.

It is FOR concealed garments in that reliable drawing from vertical concealment under attack i.e. a live adversary punching, grabbing, etc. is problematic at best and the flagged thumb prevents clothing from snagging on the gun. In other words you WANT the thumb to snag on your clothing initially so it will prevent malfunctions and keep the GUN from snagging.

The weakened grip is really not an issue since drawing in these circumstances is a matter of timing not speed. In other words, you will get your draw averted if you simply try to draw without using appropriate clinch technique and controlling the opponent's same side arm.

If you are ever at Oklahoma Police Supply, ask Jason to show the video of our Close Quarters Tactics class where there is graphic evidence (i.e. students being disarmed, having their draws averted) when they try to deviate from the 2 position to make hits or try to draw without controlling the same side arm. In other words the grip being weakened is of secondary importance since even if your grip is extremely strong, it won't matter when your shoulder is articulated(as most people carry at or behind the hip). Your draw will be averted regardless of how strong your grip is.

If you doubt these issues are important, we train on Tuesdays and Fridays at 10:30 am. One warning is that this training is extremely physical and you must be in shape since this is the instructors' training not an instructional class.

We will be doing plenty of heavy contact training and will gladly break out the simmuntion guns for a guest.:wink2:

Just email or call a couple days before you come because we have an academy running right now so we sometimes have to teach there during our regular training times.

The only thing we require of any assertion of technique by anyone of any technique is that it be repeatedly, physically demonstrated successfully against a live, resisting opponent.

That is what anyone should demand of a technique taught to them. Many prominent firearms instructors teach techniques that are only anecdotally proveable and have just not put in the full contact time in training to know the difference.

There are really only a handful of instructors who really have the contact flight time to be able to definitively demonstrate the techniques they select. Most firearms instructors (yes even the popular ones who have written books and been in magazines) are just that: gun guys. They don't have the physical background to support what they teach. Thus their firing range techniques often fall apart against a resisting opponent.

Even most law enforcement DT instructors don't really have the physical skills or background to demonstrate this. Even if they have been teaching or training for a long time. In attending several ASLET and IALEFI regional training conferences, it is rare that I notice an instructor who has a truly good physical background to support his skills.

Most police DT and most martial arts programs are centered around untested theory that falls apart under attack. Let's face it, you can be a PPCT, Monadnock, Casco, Taser, OC, firearms etc instructor in under a week. This is not sufficient background to develop technique.

In addition to these questionable types of certifications, all of our instructors have fought professionally at some time (i.e. boxing, kickboxing, MMA (NHB)) so they all have the physical background to test these theories. Most any police officer can pass the curriculum to be a DT instructor but very few are able to truly perform.

In my opinion, a good way to vett any instructor's credentials is to ask him how many times he got punched in the face in training this week. Not ever, I mean this very week. If he says none, that means he's probably not training hard.

Many instructors disagree with this, but I always welcome anyone to demonstrate differently against a capable, resisting adversary. Anyone in our training group will be glad to step up to try.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

I would also suggest reading some of the other threads in the training section as this may start to answer your questions about how our group trains.

Michael Brown

[Michael Brown]

I just noticed that you are located in Virginia so my suggestion of local training and viewing video at our local supply store is likely an impossibility.:anyone:

What I'd suggest is if you are in or near the Tidewater area, look up Frank Cucci. Find a couple fighters in his gym and work your technique against them in a live format.

Frank is a former member of Devgroup so he'll have plenty of background with weapons training and simmunition.

Michael Brown

[J.P.]

Welcome to the OSA,Randy!
Looking forward to your input here.
:greetings
We sucked you in from GlockTalk didn't we? ;)

BTW,good post Mike.

[trade_sniper]

All I can say Mike is AMEN. To everything you said. I'm not an expert by any means, but I know the difference between theory/on paper vs reality. And there is SO MUCH of that crap out there.

I look forward to seeing more from you.

[F16mickey]

Is there a good way to practice this position with a snub nose revolver? It seems that the position of the weapon would tend to put some nasty burns on oneself (not that I would know:) )?

[Michael Brown]

Is there a good way to practice this position with a snub nose revolver? It seems that the position of the weapon would tend to put some nasty burns on oneself (not that I would know:) )?

I've done it with my 642 without difficulty.

It may be a body-type issue.

Could you post a pic of you in the 2 with your snubbie?

Michael Brown

[J.P.]

FWIW,I've never been burned with a snubby from the high two.
You can feel the blast but it's negligible.
While I don't recall ever shooting full power Magnum loads from that position,I'm confident that I would live to tell about it. ;)

[F16mickey]

sorry It took so long but I was on vacation. I no longer have the 642 due to the aforementioned problems but I had my wife take this picture with her P2000SK.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/gunslinger171/truck003.jpg

The only reason that I can think of is the fact that I was using it on my weak side and I was probably cheating on the trigger!

[F16mickey]

obtw JP I was shooting GD 38 spl 135gr+P.

[Michael Brown]

Bear in mind that the picture may not tell the whole story but it looks like you're a little, not much, bladed in this photo. As you probably saw in the class, the tendency to blade is very strong and sometimes we all resort to it to one degree or another.

In a solid 2 its real important for your torso as well as your hips to remain a squared as possible to avoid the problem you mentioned.

See if that helps a little and let me know.

Michael Brown

[J.P.]

That's the first thing I noticed too.The other thing is that it looks like his thumb is not flagged nor indexing on his Pec.
Could be the way I'm looking at the pic though.