Open Car Carry

[Liberty addict]

On packing.org on the laws for Oklahoma I saw where it is OK for those with a CHL to carry openly in their car. I believe them but I haven't actually seen where this is stated in the Oklahoma statutes. Can anyone shed light on this?

[OStateFlyer]

I thought it was only legal to open carry in a vehicle if the weapon is unloaded, action-open, ammo and weapon seperate, and in plain view. If it is loaded then it must be concealed and you have to have a valid CHL. Am I way off?

Brad

[Liberty addict]

If it wasn't for what I saw on packing.org, I would agree with you on this. I might anyway! Funny, right now I cannot even find the reference on packing.org that I saw before; I guess they removed it, perhaps having checked it further.

I generally carry IWB at about 1 o'clock; when I sit down to drive, I first put my cover shirt/sweater behind my holster, then put on my seat belt. Now I'm good to go and can freely draw in about 1/2 second. Now this perhaps isn't exactly legal in Oklahoma, but it is quite easy to cover the gun should I get pulled over, plus I challenge anyone to actually SEE the gun from another vehicle. Also I have heard that carrying IWB with only the butt of the gun showing is considered "concealed". (Another jurisdiction, I believe). I was hoping someone in the know could comment on this.

[c10bonanza]

I don't have the statute before me, but it must be completely concealed whether IWB, OWB, ankle-rig, etc.

[Liberty addict]

OK, I found this on a site that summarizes Oklahoma statutes:

"Section 1289.13A
A. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1272 or 1289.13 of this title, any person stopped pursuant to a moving traffic violation who is transporting a loaded pistol in the motor vehicle without a valid concealed handgun permit authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or valid license from another state, whether the loaded firearm is concealed or open in the vehicle, shall be issued a traffic citation in the amount of Seventy Dollars ($70.00), plus court costs for transporting a firearm improperly. In addition to the traffic citation provided in this section, the person may also be arrested for any other violation of law."

The way this is stated makes it a bit unclear; I hope a lawyer can make it more clear. OK, it says if you have no CHL and you carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle either open or concealed, you get cited. But if you DO have a CHL, then what? Evidently if you have a CHL, you are OK, but can we read into this that it is OK to openly carry in your car with a CHL?

[skyydiver]

Open not OK. They basically just made it to where you just get a ticket no matter what, unless you have a SDA license. Then you're okay if you're following the SDA (which means concealed). I'm no lawyer, but I do make sure I know what I can get away with.

[AresV]

I'm not sure if what I've got rigged up in the car would classify as a legal carry method in the car or not. While I'm at work I wear a Thunderwear type holster because I wear a dress shirt and slacks and rarely wear a coat. However, it's difficult to almost impossible to draw from that rig while sitting in the car without reclining the seat a considerable amount (which is not optimal in the event I need to draw the weapon).

I rigged up a 5.11 patch system holster with some industrial strength velcro in the car so I could have fast access to my gun if needed. The holster has a button thumb-break and is completely concealed when I'm sitting in the car. It sits against the transmission tunnel just to the side of my right knee. I even had my wife check my work and she said that she could not see it with me in the driver's seat from anywhere outside of the car. It's very easy to draw from and a lot faster than trying draw from the Thunderwear or find the gun under the seat (if I decided to stash it there instead).

[Mack45]

AresV, In my opinion your rig sounds perfectly legal to me. I do assume that you have your Concealed Weapon License since you mention carrying while at work.
Liberty addict, I don't understand your desire for open carry. If you want easy access to your weapon just lay it on the seat beside you and put a towel or something over it. It would be concealed and legal that way. It just has to be hidden from view. Maybe I'm missing something here??? Oh yes, and to you guys that are new to the OSA, welcome aboard.

[AresV]

AresV, In my opinion your rig sounds perfectly legal to me. I do assume that you have your Concealed Weapon License since you mention carrying while at work.

I do have my CCL, no worries.:)

[skyydiver]

I agree on both accounts with Mack. If ya cain't see it, and you're licenced, good to go. A ball cap is a wonderful thing in the car. Great idea Ares! I've been trying to figure something out, the velcro idea is awesome. I even have one of those holsters that I never use.

[berettaman]

Why isn't your vehicle considered "concealed" if you are licensed.I often remove my jacket when driving.Doesn't the vehicle become your concealment garment?Joe-blow/the sheeple cant see it and become traumatized.

[Mack45]

Hadn't really thought about it that way. The law defines "concealed handgun as being carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger. I would think that it had to be covered in some manner so that during a traffic stop, an officer would not see it before you had a chance to identify yourself as possesing a valid CCW license. That might cause some uneasy moments. Personally, I would cover mine in some manner. I guess that if Joe Blow and the sheeple can't see it either from another car or as a pedestrian, your cool.

[skyydiver]

Why isn't your vehicle considered "concealed" if you are licensed.I often remove my jacket when driving.Doesn't the vehicle become your concealment garment?Joe-blow/the sheeple cant see it and become traumatized.

You're totally right, as long as someone looking in can't see it, then it doesn't matter if it's a cap or the console that conceals it. The key isn't what conceals it, but that it can't be seen. On the seat in view isn't concealed because, well, it isn't concealed.

[Liberty addict]

AresV, In my opinion your rig sounds perfectly legal to me. I do assume that you have your Concealed Weapon License since you mention carrying while at work.
Liberty addict, I don't understand your desire for open carry. If you want easy access to your weapon just lay it on the seat beside you and put a towel or something over it. It would be concealed and legal that way. It just has to be hidden from view. Maybe I'm missing something here??? Oh yes, and to you guys that are new to the OSA, welcome aboard.

I used to do that way (lay it in the seat and throw a towel over it). Last year someone rear-ended me and the gun went flying; if the person who hit me had been a bad guy I couldn't find the gun in time. (Actually he was very nice and apologetic.) But since then I keep my gun in a holster with good retention, IWB at 1pm. If I stay covered and put on my seat belt, it makes drawing quickly rather difficult. But if I uncover the gun and THEN put on the seat belt, no problem. At that point it is not hard to cover it up if I get pulled over, so I suppose that is the thing to do.

[AgentJBOND]

when I drive, I don't adjust my rig - i leave it IWB at 4 o'clock and figure that if i get car jacked i will act panicked (hopefully only act) and reach like i'm getting my wallet to give it to the car jacker, then give him some corbon hollowpoints instead. its not the fastest, but it may be better given the element of surprise (?)

critique?

[elshadow001]

self defense law says concealed from ordinary view!

[Glock 'em down]

IMO this is the best rule to follow...If you get stopped by an LEO, get out of your car, show him your EMPTY right hand, have your SDA card, DL and Insurance verification in your left hand (or vice-versa if you are a southpaw) already have your wallet put away and don't be fidgetting inside your pockets...actually...KEEP YOUR DAMNED HANDS OUT OF YOUR POCKETS! Meet him halfway from your car to the police unit, advise the LEO that you are an SDA card holder, GENTLY hand him your permit, DL and insurance, and tell the LEO that you have a - describe your pistol: 1911/Beretta/Glock/Sig WHATEVER in a tan Bianchi holster/black Galco holster/Fobus holster (God forbid!) or out of a holster lying on the seat - HOWEVER it is there beside you on the front seat (we appreciate this!) ADVISE THE LEO IF IT IS FULLY LOADED OR NOT ...YES...there are some LEOs that like to know this and there are some that will want to look to see if it is fully loaded...now would not be a good time for the LEO to have an AD with your gun! Then tell the officer "I will stay here if you want to go get the weapon." Be sure and put your hands on the hood of the police car with your back to the LEO. Be prepared to be handcuffed and put inside the police cruiser...I know, I know...some cops do this. It may not happen and it probably won't - depending on what kind of a cop you get (older more experienced officer or a young punk that's greener than goose sh!t)

That is the way I like to be addressed when I am on duty and conducting business on the side of the road and there is another gun present other than mine. Also the LEO will probably unload your weapon, so be prepared to reload you weapon AFTER THE LEO HAS LET YOU LEAVE! This is just what works for me. Mike Brown or any other LEO on this site may have a different way of doing things, because almost all of us LEOs do things different. Hell I had stopped a little old lady once that INSISTED to show me her "cute little .38" I told her that wasn't necessary, and then the next thing I know, SHE'S POINTING THE DAMNED THING AT ME! Quickly I grabbed it out of her hands before she could figure out how it worked...she was looking at it like it was a friggin' nuclear reactor or something. Anyway...just my :twocents:

[ok_patriot]

I think it is a bad Idea to get out of your car to meet an officer halfway, unless you are looking to get shot. They will more than likely think you are trying to be angry. I would wait until he comes to the vehicle and follow his insrtuctions.

This way you are letting him know that you know that he is in control, and that you are cooperating with him. This will get you alot further than getting out of your vehicle.

[Glock 'em down]

You may be right...Then again, when he approaches you and sees your gun on the front seat, you might wind up with the barrell of his gun stuck in your ear! Like I said, I prefer the DRIVER (not any other occupants) OUT of the car...I don't know what's in his car! I want him outta there! (unless they are female - but that's another 6 pack) Most LEOs (probably 80% - 90%) I've known and work with are also in agreement. Speaking as a Police Officer, I can honestly say that I AM IN MORE CONTROL when the driver has exited the vehicle. Ask Mike Brown...see what HE says.

[ok_patriot]

Not being an officer I really shouldn't comment, but I would prefer them to stay in a vehicle. I have the wrong temperment to deal with people who I think are being stupid. There in lies the problem. I Think.

This is the exact reason that I deal with people in the field that I do. They are always much more cooperative when I want to give them money.

On another note, I would like to have the option to carry open or concealed.

[Glock 'em down]

Yeah, if you can't tolerate "stupid people" then for the Love of GOD DON'T BE A COP! Somedays it seems like that's all you deal with! Especially when it's a full moon! FORGETABOUTIT!!! Am I right MB?

[7point82]

Personally I'll let you guys try open carry in the car and tell me how it works out for ya. j/k.

Let me preface this next bit with the statement that I am NOT LEO. I have been privy to some LEO training over the years and I know there are multiple schools of thought on the matter of staying in the car or getting out of the car. I would love to know if one is significantly more prevalent than the other. I went through some LEO training 15 years ago and the rule then at the Tulsa Academy was "keep 'em in the car" where you can control them. My dad always had always been told (and told me) to get out of the car so the officer can see that you are not a threat. So (seriously), Glock 'em down, would an officer from your school of thought take offense at me staying in the car, hands in plain sight, sitting still with my DL, insurance verification and CHL in hand? I'd be more than happy to do whatever makes an officer the most comfortable in that situation.

[Glock 'em down]

Well, like I said. I don't know what you as the driver have stuffed under the seat, in the glove box, in that nifty little "console" pocket between the seats...I just don't know what is in your car within an arms reach. I do know that if I get you out of that car, I DO HAVE MORE CONTROL because the only gun you could possibly reach is mine! And yeah, I may get killed with my own gun someday...but they will have to BEAT me to death with it, because it will be out of ammo! That is rule #9 on the "Rules Of A Gunfight" list. But just take a minute to think about it...if you were gonna confront a person, would you want them out of the car on the shoulder of the highway with you where you can monitor their hands and see any "bulges" they might have on their person? (Shut up J.P.) I personally want them out of the f*ckin' car! It also helps you to see how they conduct themselves. You can tell by the way they sway and stagger if they have been drinking or not. It's also easier to read their body language when they are standing in front of you. And it makes it a helluva lot easier to detain them (if needed) when they are out of the car. Ever hear of "Vehicle Extraction" :anyone: That's when I grab you by the arm and drag you out of the car thru that little wing glass on your car door and slam you face down on the asphalt! So yeah...I'm 100% ALL FOR getting the driver out of the car. UNLESS it is a woman! Why you ask? Because I'm more afraid of getting slapped with a sexual harrassment suit than getting shot or assaulted by a woman! Yeah...that happens. If the woman is in her car, she can not POSSIBLY say I was trying to "snuggle" up to her.

[Glock 'em down]

And now that you have read that, you kept saying leave them in the car so you can "control them" :lookaroun How in the hell can you control them while they are seated in the car? You can't see what's in there with them, you cant' see their hands, you can't see what's under them or in their pockets, you can't read body language, and furthermore, if they are still in the car who's to say they can't just f*ckin' take off and haul a$$ down the road and leave you standing there talking to yourself? PLEASE! If you have a better idea as to why they should stay in the car...do tell! I've never heard of a good enough reason to make me wanna keep them in the f*ckin' car! It's kinda like standing in door facings...but...that's another story :thumb:

[7point82]

Like I said the "keep 'em in the car" idea wasn't mine it was just what I observed being taught at the Tulsa Academy years ago. I was just curious if one school of thought was more prevalent than the other across the good ole USA.

[Glock 'em down]

Good post. It's kind of a apples to oranges thing. Back in 1989, I was trained by the old timers using the old school way...I think OHP still teaches outta the car (except for women). I dunno. Dammit! Where's Mike Brown when you need him...ain't that just like a friggin' cop!

[Kiyot]

I'm not sure how most LEO's would deal with seeing someone walk toward them in thier car after they've been fidgeting in thier car supposedly getting thier wallet and SDA out. I would personally see this as a possible threat if I were a LEO, someone walking up to you while you are still in your car is a big officer safety issue, so you're gonna instantly jump out of your vehicle ready to draw your weapon. If I were to be pulled over I would lower the window and keep both hands on the steering wheel, as soon as the officer approached advise him you have a conceal carry license and that you are carrying, and let him know where my ID's and Insurance are in the vehicle and let him tell me how to proceed. If he wants me out of the car at this point for his safety then I will exit the vehicle. An officer legally does not have the right to check your firearm unless there is probable cause that you have committed a crime.

Now in regards to keeping a firearm in your car see 1289.7 and 1289.13 that I'll CNP below. But from those two sections it appears to me that you can keep a gun in your car as long as it is not magazine, clip or chamber loaded. Nowhere does it say the ammunition has to be kept seperate. My perception of the law is as long as everything is in plain view then you can keep a gun and full magazine in your front seat in plain view and you are completely legal. If there is something I'm missing then please tell me, but this is what was explained to me when I took my conceal carry class about 4 years ago. If you have SDA, you can keep an AR-15 in your back seat concealed with a magazine in it as long as there's not a round in the chamber.




§21-1289.7. Firearms in vehicles.
FIREARMS IN VEHICLES
Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle, shotgun or pistol, open and unloaded, at any time. For purposes of this section "open" means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or a trunk of a vehicle.
Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle or shotgun concealed behind a seat of the vehicle or within the interior of the vehicle provided the rifle or shotgun is not clip, magazine or chamber loaded. The authority to transport a clip or magazine loaded rifle or shotgun shall be pursuant to Section 1289.13 of this title.
Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1290.1 through 1290.25 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed the handgun in such vehicle, shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.
Added by Laws 1971, c. 159, § 7, emerg. eff. May 24, 1971. Amended by Laws 1995, c. 272, § 45, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Laws 1996, c. 190, § 1, emerg. eff. May 16, 1996.


§21-1289.13. Transporting a loaded firearm.
TRANSPORTING A LOADED FIREARM
Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a landborne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act.
Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title.
Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed a handgun or rifle or shotgun in such vehicle shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.
Added by Laws 1971, c. 159, § 13, emerg. eff. May 24, 1971. Amended by Laws 1995, c. 272, § 51, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Laws 2003, c. 465, § 3, eff. July 1, 2003; Laws 2004, c. 549, § 1, eff. July 1, 2004.

[AgentJBOND]

wouldn't the best thing for us to do is wait for the LEO to tell us what to do? the way i've always seen it is that when the LEO puts his lights on and comes up behind me, he is telling me "pull over and turn the car off" - nothing more, nothing less. if he is of the "get out of the car" school of thought, he may come up and tell me to do so, and i will comply. but if he is not of that school of thought, i don't want to make him uncomfortable by doing something he did not ask me to do (kind of like when that little old lady pulled out that .38 even though the LEO did not tell her to do so).

[bulbboy]

I just stay in my seat with my hands clearly on the wheel. I wait for them to ask for my info and then watch me as I get it.

[Glock 'em down]

I'm not sure how most LEO's would deal with seeing someone walk toward them in thier car after they've been fidgeting in thier car supposedly getting thier wallet and SDA out. I would personally see this as a possible threat if I were a LEO, someone walking up to you while you are still in your car is a big officer safety issue, so you're gonna instantly jump out of your vehicle ready to draw your weapon. If I were to be pulled over I would lower the window and keep both hands on the steering wheel, as soon as the officer approached advise him you have a conceal carry license and that you are carrying, and let him know where my ID's and Insurance are in the vehicle and let him tell me how to proceed. If he wants me out of the car at this point for his safety then I will exit the vehicle. An officer legally does not have the right to check your firearm unless there is probable cause that you have committed a crime.

Now in regards to keeping a firearm in your car see 1289.7 and 1289.13 that I'll CNP below. But from those two sections it appears to me that you can keep a gun in your car as long as it is not magazine, clip or chamber loaded. Nowhere does it say the ammunition has to be kept seperate. My perception of the law is as long as everything is in plain view then you can keep a gun and full magazine in your front seat in plain view and you are completely legal. If there is something I'm missing then please tell me, but this is what was explained to me when I took my conceal carry class about 4 years ago. If you have SDA, you can keep an AR-15 in your back seat concealed with a magazine in it as long as there's not a round in the chamber.




§21-1289.7. Firearms in vehicles.
FIREARMS IN VEHICLES
Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle, shotgun or pistol, open and unloaded, at any time. For purposes of this section "open" means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or a trunk of a vehicle.
Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle or shotgun concealed behind a seat of the vehicle or within the interior of the vehicle provided the rifle or shotgun is not clip, magazine or chamber loaded. The authority to transport a clip or magazine loaded rifle or shotgun shall be pursuant to Section 1289.13 of this title.
Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1290.1 through 1290.25 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed the handgun in such vehicle, shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.
Added by Laws 1971, c. 159, § 7, emerg. eff. May 24, 1971. Amended by Laws 1995, c. 272, § 45, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Laws 1996, c. 190, § 1, emerg. eff. May 16, 1996.


§21-1289.13. Transporting a loaded firearm.
TRANSPORTING A LOADED FIREARM
Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a landborne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act.
Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title.
Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed a handgun or rifle or shotgun in such vehicle shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.
Added by Laws 1971, c. 159, § 13, emerg. eff. May 24, 1971. Amended by Laws 1995, c. 272, § 51, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Laws 2003, c. 465, § 3, eff. July 1, 2003; Laws 2004, c. 549, § 1, eff. July 1, 2004.

BULLSH*T! If you are packing heat, I CAN unload your weapon while I am talking/interviewing you. I CAN make you surrender your weapon and lock it in my car if I choose to. If it is lying open on the front seat of your car, I CAN unload it and seize it. This is not Gunsmoke! People are not allowed to just walk around the police waving a gun! If I know that you have a gun on your person or in your direct reach or vicinity I CAN TAKE IT FROM YOU! If you have one and don't tell me YOU CAN GO TO JAIL - EVEN IF YOU ARE AN SDA MEMBER! It's all about honesty and attitude!

I stopped a gentleman once that was carrying in a shoulder rig. It was about October and he had a light jacket on. He was an older man, probably around 55 - 60. When I approached the car, he handed me his DL, Insurance and SDA card, and IMMEDIATELY told me "Officer, I have a loaded revolver in a shoulder holster on me right now." Seeing that he looked like he had just left church or maybe a dialysis treatment, I simply reached inside and zipped up his jacket all the way to his neck and politely said "just leave it there until we are finished" I didn't make him give it to me, I didn't make him put his hands up, and I didn't stick my gun in his ear! HONESTY AND ATTITUDE! I POLITELY told him he was going a little fast, gave him back his credentials, told him "Have a nice day" and we departed. Easy as that!

I think you guys may not be understanding me fully. I said I LIKE THEM OUT OF THE CAR! If I approach the car and the guy seems like a decent fellow, is groomed nice, has on nice clothes, is not acting nervous and sh!t and hands me his "things" and says that he's packing, the first thing I usually say is "where is it and what is it?" If he acts ok - FINE! If he's acting a little strange - OH HELL YEAH! He's outta that car. And usually (and you may think this is a little overboard, but I'll bet Mike Brown does it too) when I approach a vehicle (especially at night) I usually have my gun out of the holster and perpindicular to and a little behind my right leg. I have "a little bit" of an advantage, but the occupant of the vehicle never sees it in my hand. Once I make contact and have established what kind of people they are (and yeah, you can usually tell within the first 10 seconds) I'll holster up and then begin my interview.

By the way...did you notice that part about "a case designed for carrying firearms" :anyone:

[Glock 'em down]

And no, you can not conceal a fully loaded AR-15 in your car. Look on the back of your SDA card. Does it say "rifle" or "Shotgun" on there anywhere? :anyone: And also, I am out of my car before my contact is probably 99% of the time.

[Glock 'em down]

wouldn't the best thing for us to do is wait for the LEO to tell us what to do? the way i've always seen it is that when the LEO puts his lights on and comes up behind me, he is telling me "pull over and turn the car off" - nothing more, nothing less. if he is of the "get out of the car" school of thought, he may come up and tell me to do so, and i will comply. but if he is not of that school of thought, i don't want to make him uncomfortable by doing something he did not ask me to do (kind of like when that little old lady pulled out that .38 even though the LEO did not tell her to do so).

EXACTLY! :thumb: Well said!

[J.P.]

LOL!
When you stop me (and you will),I'm going to have major fun with you,G-man.
:rollingla

[Glock 'em down]

I'd probably be better off just shooting you before hand...I'd be doing mankind (and womankind) a huge favor! :thumb:

[JamesBell]

Glock 'em, the one and only time I got out of a car before a LEO told me to I quickly became a little concerned that I was about to die of accute lead poisoning. So, if you happen to stop me (which shouldn't come as a surprise, I drive too much to not mess up at some point) I'll be sitting there with my hands on the wheel, a smile on my face, and as polite and cheerful of a greeting as I can muster. I'll gladly do what you tell me to do, without hesitation, but my butt is staying on the seat until you ask or tell me to move it.

[Glock 'em down]

Well, like I said guys, not every cop thinks this way. Me personally, I have never, EVER heard of a good enough reason to want the guy to stay in the car. I just feel more comfortable with him out of that car! Of course, you kinda gotta look at LEOs today. Most of them are college guys, around 21 - 24 YOA, maybe 5'10" - maybe 6'0" And then here I am 6'2" weighing in at a mere 375 pounds! Yeah, I'm that big! Ask NikatKimber - he's seen me! Could the little "College Boys" wearing the gun and badge handle a big guy on the side of the road??? maybe. Could I handle somebody the college boy's size??? YOU BET! And I'm not saying I'm a bad ass, but I DO FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN HE IS OUTTA THAT CAR AND STANDING IN FRONT OF ME!!!

[Kiyot]

BULLSH*T! If you are packing heat, I CAN unload your weapon while I am talking/interviewing you. I CAN make you surrender your weapon and lock it in my car if I choose to. If it is lying open on the front seat of your car, I CAN unload it and seize it. This is not Gunsmoke! People are not allowed to just walk around the police waving a gun! If I know that you have a gun on your person or in your direct reach or vicinity I CAN TAKE IT FROM YOU! If you have one and don't tell me YOU CAN GO TO JAIL - EVEN IF YOU ARE AN SDA MEMBER! It's all about honesty and attitude!

I stopped a gentleman once that was carrying in a shoulder rig. It was about October and he had a light jacket on. He was an older man, probably around 55 - 60. When I approached the car, he handed me his DL, Insurance and SDA card, and IMMEDIATELY told me "Officer, I have a loaded revolver in a shoulder holster on me right now." Seeing that he looked like he had just left church or maybe a dialysis treatment, I simply reached inside and zipped up his jacket all the way to his neck and politely said "just leave it there until we are finished" I didn't make him give it to me, I didn't make him put his hands up, and I didn't stick my gun in his ear! HONESTY AND ATTITUDE! I POLITELY told him he was going a little fast, gave him back his credentials, told him "Have a nice day" and we departed. Easy as that!

I think you guys may not be understanding me fully. I said I LIKE THEM OUT OF THE CAR! If I approach the car and the guy seems like a decent fellow, is groomed nice, has on nice clothes, is not acting nervous and sh!t and hands me his "things" and says that he's packing, the first thing I usually say is "where is it and what is it?" If he acts ok - FINE! If he's acting a little strange - OH HELL YEAH! He's outta that car. And usually (and you may think this is a little overboard, but I'll bet Mike Brown does it too) when I approach a vehicle (especially at night) I usually have my gun out of the holster and perpindicular to and a little behind my right leg. I have "a little bit" of an advantage, but the occupant of the vehicle never sees it in my hand. Once I make contact and have established what kind of people they are (and yeah, you can usually tell within the first 10 seconds) I'll holster up and then begin my interview.

By the way...did you notice that part about "a case designed for carrying firearms" :anyone:



First off I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm making a counter point to what you are saying, and I'm backing it up with state law. If you can prove otherwise then I'm asking that you please do, because I would like clarification.

BULLSH*T! If you are packing heat, I CAN unload your weapon while I am talking/interviewing you. I CAN make you surrender your weapon and lock it in my car if I choose to. If it is lying open on the front seat of your car, I CAN unload it and seize it. This is not Gunsmoke! People are not allowed to just walk around the police waving a gun!


I never said anything about having it out and waving it around in front of the police. But in state law section 1290.8 it states:

E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed.

So unless you have probable cause that I've committed a crime then from my understanding I can keep my weapon. But if an officer asked I would comply with him/her without any problem. I am in noway an ass to an officer if I get pulled over quite the opposite, I know how dangerous it is and can understand how and why they do certain things.

If you have one and don't tell me YOU CAN GO TO JAIL - EVEN IF YOU ARE AN SDA MEMBER! It's all about honesty and attitude!


I understand that you have to advise the officer upon initial contact that you are carrying and I stated this, and I realize it's a crime not to. And I advised this in my post to state this when the officer first approached.



think you guys may not be understanding me fully. I said I LIKE THEM OUT OF THE CAR! If I approach the car and the guy seems like a decent fellow, is groomed nice, has on nice clothes, is not acting nervous and sh!t and hands me his "things" and says that he's packing, the first thing I usually say is "where is it and what is it?" If he acts ok - FINE! If he's acting a little strange - OH HELL YEAH! He's outta that car. And usually (and you may think this is a little overboard, but I'll bet Mike Brown does it too) when I approach a vehicle (especially at night) I usually have my gun out of the holster and perpindicular to and a little behind my right leg. I have "a little bit" of an advantage, but the occupant of the vehicle never sees it in my hand. Once I make contact and have established what kind of people they are (and yeah, you can usually tell within the first 10 seconds) I'll holster up and then begin my interview.

In your first post you said the best rule to follow was to get out of your car. Any officer I've talked to sees this as a possible threat and a sign of of aggression. And that's all I pointed out, my opinion would be to turn on your inside lights, put both hands on top of the steering wheel, and tell the officer you are packing legally, and then do whatever he tells you to do.


By the way...did you notice that part about "a case designed for carrying firearms"

Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle, shotgun or pistol, open and unloaded, at any time. For purposes of this section "open" means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or a trunk of a vehicle.

My take on this is the firearm is out in the open, OR in gun case designed for carrying firearms of which the case may be wholly or partially visible.






And no, you can not conceal a fully loaded AR-15 in your car. Look on the back of your SDA card. Does it say "rifle" or "Shotgun" on there anywhere?

§21-1289.13. Transporting a loaded firearm.
TRANSPORTING A LOADED FIREARM
Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a landborne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act

This law clearly states that I am able to carry a rifle or shotgun loaded but not chamber loaded in the interior of my vehicle.


Like I said I am not wanting to get into a GlockTalk or AR15 type of discussion where it's "F*** you", "No F*** you!!" kind of deal. I'd like for you to prove me wrong with state law or case law so that I can better understand it, and not just saying I can or can't do it. I respect LEO's and in no way am I trashing you or others. Thanks for you time!

[Kiyot]

LOL I just realized this is even a thread from back in December.

[Kiyot]

Okay I double checked the deal about having a rifle in the interior of your car. You can keep it unloaded with no magazine, clip or without a chambered round concealed behind the seat of the vehicle. This is supported by 1289.7.

The part about having it magazine or clip loaded, but not chamber loaded IF you have an SDA permit is supported by 1289.13. It however never says if you can or cannot conceal it in this condition.

This does not mean that I ride around with my AR tucked behind my seat in case it's go time. But in the rural areas, it's more likely that you would run into this situation where you'll see trucks with gun racks on the back window holding a couple loaded hunting rifles.

[AgentJBOND]

glock 'em down:
do you want people to get out of their car before you get out of your car? or are you just saying that the first thing you would usually do upon approaching a driver is ask them to get out of the car?

[Glock 'em down]

Like I said, when I approach a vehicle, I am "USUALLY" the first one out of my car. I have stopped people before and by the time I've "CAUGHT UP WITH THEM" because they were going SO DAMNED FAST they were actually leaning against their car waiting for me...THAT SUCKS! I don't like it when that happens...but...IT DOES HAPPEN. But the times that I do stop someone and I approach their vehicle, if they come across as a "decent" person...re: nice clothes, good personality, polite, well groomed, nice car, etc, etc, etc...they USUALLY get to stay in the car. The point everybody is missing is if they are acting like a JACKASS, if they are dressed like a gangsta, if they are combative or belligerent, HELL YEAH! I WANT THEM OUTTA THE CAR!!! Because, I have no idea what is in that car. They could have a fully loaded AR-15 in the backseat under a coat or something. I gain a better chance of being on the side of the road with them than I do with them still in their car. And as far as the thing about unloading a person's gun...that falls under officer safety. ATTITUDE AND HONESTY guys...that's what it's all about. If I stop you and you tell me you have a gun CONCEALED ON YOUR PERSON NO SWEAT! I'm gonna ask you where it is and depending on your ATTITUDE AND HONESTY it will probably stay right where you said it is. HOWEVER...If it is lying on the front seat not in a holster or a hard shell case or a friggin' gun rug, yeah, I will probably seize it and unload it until we are finished with the interview...hey, SUE ME! I know what you read in the wonderful title 21, but you know what? I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! If a guy is sitting on his gun in an IWB holster that's one thing...if it is right next to him on the passenger seat, sitting on go - that's something else!