"F" the Tulsa World (9mm wetpack tests)

[J.P.]

I just got bored and threw this together really quick so it's not the *big* test I've been planning.

I soaked the newspapers thoroughly for an hour and then drained them for 30 min before shooting.

I shot the following rounds out of a Glock 17 at 10ft.:
Cor-Bon 115gr +p
Speer Gold Dot 124gr (standard pressure)
Speer Gold Dot 115gr (standard pressure)
Remington Golden Saber 124gr +p
Winchester Ranger SXT 147gr
Hornady TAP FDP 147gr
Hornady TAP FDP 124gr

I first did a test into bare wetpack.
Afterwards I shot all rounds through a 3/4 pine board that was 4" from the wetpack
Finally I fired all rounds through 4 layers of denim into wetpack.

(click pics to enlarge)

http://x11.putfile.com/1/017132816-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/017132816.jpg&s=x11)
http://x11.putfile.com/1/017135974-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/017135974.jpg&s=x11)
http://x11.putfile.com/1/017142238-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/017142238.jpg&s=x11)

[J.P.]

A couple of the wetpack pics...
http://x11.putfile.com/1/017144681.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)
http://x11.putfile.com/1/017145959.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

[XRF]

Was the Rem. GS a "bonded" jacket?

[J.P.]

Was the Rem. GS a "bonded" jacket?

No.
If you click the pics,you'll see that in two of the tests the GS shed it's jacket early.
i can't find any GS bonded in any of the local shops.

[J.P.]

The Cor-bon 115gr+p was really suprising.
I didn't expect it to do so well.
The Ranger and especially the Gold dots were no suprise.
I'd like to test the Gold dot 115gr +p+ but I'm not sure that it is still in production.
Patrol Technology has some but they are in the old style box and I'm not interested in out of production stuff. (if it is)

[okla-lawman]

I have been shooting some of the 124 +p out of my new kahr pm9 today. I have been shooting 40/45 to long. I felt like I was loading a toy. My wife even asked will that even hurt anybody?? They look so small.(she took over my model 23). The recoil was noticable but not too bad. A 14 ounce pistol firing a 124 grn bullet at 1250 it could be lot worst. No I was not a glutton for punishment and want to try some of my few early production hydrashocks. I find your tests in line with what I would expect for the most part. Wet pack makes most hollowpoints expand. I found some of your 4 layer tests
a little disapointing. In this area that is a lot of denim though. If I was working in the north I would deffinately make 40 or 45 the minimum. Have you ever heard what happened to the federal bullet with the silicone inside that supposedly expanded no matter what. I saw a article about it in one of the police mags by Wiley Clapp but nithins since then. It did not matter what he shot it expanded..

[XRF]

J.P. I think I noticed some Rem. GS bonded ammo at OPS. It costs twice as much though. I think I'm going to start carrying it instead of the standard GS.

[J.P.]

J.P. I think I noticed some Rem. GS bonded ammo at OPS. It costs twice as much though. I think I'm going to start carrying it instead of the standard GS.

I've *never* seen any bonded 9mm there and bonded .40 seems to be quite rare.I find it easier at gun shows.

[J.P.]

The Ranger,Corbon,and Gold Dots are the only good performers in this 4 layer denim test.
The Federal EFMJ I think has been tested by Marshall over at stoppingpower.net
I can't get my hands on any and really have no interest in it because we can carry hollowpoints here. ;)

As far as I'm concerned,the .40S&W is the best 'stopper' if there was such a thing,because of the energy dump.
As i've said,all things being equal,i'll take the higher energy round every time.
The 'all things equal' is the catch though. :)

[J.P.]

When you look through the wetpack,you can see fragments and denim material,etc.
You get a pretty good idea of which rounds open more quickly than others and how long they stay open.
As for the second part,I got a good idea of how long the rounds were open before mushrooming when using water jugs as well.

I didn't report these findings today because like i say,i just threw this one together quickly with many interruptions. ;)

[kjones99]

I've *never* seen any bonded 9mm there and bonded .40 seems to be quite rare.I find it easier at gun shows.

i think ridetime bought some GS bonded 9mm at OPS a week or so ago....i opted for the .40 non-bonded since i don't do alot of "shooting through glass" drills these days...

[J.P.]

The Hornady TAP FPD (XTP bullet) was rather disappointing as usual.
I was hoping that they had tweaked the design to actually work.It would have been a good idea to go along with the new 'tacticool' look.
If i had to pick one round based on looks,it would be the 147gr TAP. ;)

[J.P.]

i think ridetime bought some GS bonded 9mm at OPS a week or so ago...
i'm pretty sure this is incorrect
I hang out there all the time (like you didn't know that) and they *never* have any.

[berettaman]

J.P. thanks for the tests. You've reassured my decision in using SXT/147gr rounds as my SD/Carry rounds. :thumb:

[J.P.]

I'm not 100% convinced that the Ranger 147gr is the *best* 9mm carry round but it has been my carry round in 9mm for quite a while now.

[stepper]

I carry the Ranger 147gr in 9mm myself. I have the 124 +p+ too, but I like the 147 better. I can tell a difference between the 2 when shooting the PM9, so that was why I chose the 147.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.

[J.P.]

I'm still waiting on the Ranger 127gr +p+,among others,for the *big* test.

My SIG 228 never liked the Ranger 127gr +P+. It felt like the grips were going to blow off.
Glocks eat it like candy though.

[stepper]

I'm still waiting on the Ranger 127gr +p+,among others,for the *big* test.

My SIG 228 never liked the Ranger 127gr +P+. It felt like the grips were going to blow off.
Glocks eat it like candy though.

Oops, you're right, the Rangers are 127gr, not 124 like I posted. :smack:

[okla-lawman]

The Federal EFMJ I think has been tested by Marshall over at stoppingpower.net
I can't get my hands on any and really have no interest in it because we can carry hollowpoints here. ;)


Why no hollowpoints??I am confused are you in NJ??

So that is you J>P> that just registered over there at Stopping Power. Did you get a chance ever to look a International Wound Ballistics Assoc. website before the went belly up?

[okla-lawman]

I will not carry the winchester load. While I am not really impressed with them from the reports I have seen the main reason is after shooting law suit survivalbility. Shooting some one as a civilian ( I am bound to carry only dept authorized ammo) is almost an instant law suit. A friend of mine killed some one in the line of duty a few years back to keep the puke from killing many other police officers. He had a hand grenade ant was attempting to throw it when my friend did what was necessary. He saved countless officers. He got served his fourth law suit over it last year.It is worst for civilains. Ayoob reported that the average civilain shooting will cost you 1/2 million dollars by the time it is through
(nationwide average, it probably would not be that much here) So I dont want to give them anything to sue about. Since the ranger is just a relabeled Black Talon... get the idea. Years back I asissted (pro bono) in the civil law suit against an officer who was sued for wrongful death. The subjec just stabbed his partner and turned at this officer and came toward him with the knife when he was shot dead. The reason for the Law suit?? Because on the TV show TJ hooker they nocked knives out of there hands with their PR-24
and therefore the officer should of done the same....... :puke: :puke:

Am I a little over cautious..maybe. But if you had seen the lawsuits I have seen, Including the b.s. ones against me (non have even went to trial, they lost them all) you might be too. I have always had my lawyer paid for..would you??

[J.P.]

Okla-lawman,
What is standard issue load for you guys?

[kgull85]

J.P.,

How many rounds did you fire of each type?
Are the measurements you gave averages?
What type of gun did you shoot these out of (barrel length)?
How far away from the target were you?

[J.P.]

Only one round of each type in each test this time.
Glock 17 at 10ft.

[kgull85]

How many rounds will you be using in your "big test"?

[J.P.]

I'm not sure yet.
I'm still waiting on some of the ammo to arrive and it will depend on how much I get.

What do you think is fair?

[kgull85]

Well if you want it to be somewhat scientific then I would suggest the following (assuming you don't want to fire 100 rounds of each type):

Minimum of 10 rounds per type and givie the average, max, min, (and/or standard deviation) of each measurment you take (i.e. expansion and penetration depth).
Keep your variables to a minimum by using the same gun, distance from target, angle of entry, cleanliness of the gun, density of the targets, and anything else you can think of that might affect the results.

[J.P.]

Sounds good but I rarely get results that differ in say three rounds of each type.
I've tested rounds as many as 12 per box and they all perform at about the same level.
Not enough difference to write home about.If i had noticed great variances then I would agree that shooting more than,for example,5 rounds per,would be prudent.
Now,occasionally you will get a bullet that will clog with denim contact for instance like the TAP above.When I have such an offender,I like to single it out and test a lot more of them,if i think it's worth the effort.
I seem to get fairly consistant results among lots when using either water jugs or bags,or wetpack.
I'm looking into gel as well but it's $$$$$

[J.P.]

I got some Golden Saber 124gr+p Bonded rounds to test and also some Speer Gold Dot 115gr +p+.

i'm still waiting on some of the ammo to arrive........