hi cap 45s ... ?

[NikatKimber]

My first post...

Any comments suggestions regarding the Para 45s? Thinking possibly about a Tac-4 but don't know anyone with any experience (good or bad) with Para.

Other than that, suggestions for a hi cap 45?

How is recoil with a Glock 21 or 30? I shoot (and carry) an all steel 4" Kimber now, never had any complaints with the 45 recoil, need something a little lighter to carry... a little smaller wouldn't hurt anything either

... i know the tac4 is neither smaller nor lighter, just wouldn't mind finding 2 more guns, and i'm fond of the feel of metal in my hands!

~~Brent~~

[J.P.]

I have nothing positive to say about anything made by Para.
Too many bad experiences and horror stories.

Recoil isn't bad with a G21 but the grip is too large for human hands. ;)

[DReed]

I have a Glock 21C and really like it. I do not find the recoil to be bad at all and don't mind the grip size. My hands aren't that big, either.

[Scott_In_OKC]

I love my 21. I shoot it much better than that Darkside 1911 I owned for a VERY short period. I've shot DrBaker's G30 and I loved it. H&H has one of the new ones with the accessory rail on it. It might have to come home with me pretty soon :)

[Michael Brown]

I am of the belief that if you want a hi-cap 45, stay away from the 1911 designs. They were made to function as 7-8 round guns.

If Sig starts making a 220 in DAK, I'll have a new 45.

If you need hi-caps, I'd recommend the Glock 21 or the HK series.

I am also of the opinion that if you are going to get a 45, it needs to have a 4 inch barrel or longer, which for me rules out the Glock 30 and 36.

The 45 ACP was meant to perform in barrels of 4-5". If you need a smaller barrel, get a 40 or 9mm whose ammunition are both designed to perform optimally in 3-4 inch guns.

I think the Glock 37 in 45 GAP is an excellent choice except the ammo is too expensive to shoot much of.

Michael Brown

[Scott_In_OKC]

Does the shorter barrel drop the velocity below an acceptable level for the 45? Or is it something else?

I am also of the opinion that if you are going to get a 45, it needs to have a 4 inch barrel or longer, which for me rules out the Glock 30 and 36.

The 45 ACP was meant to perform in barrels of 4-5". If you need a smaller barrel, get a 40 or 9mm whose ammunition are both designed to perform optimally in 3-4 inch guns.

Michael Brown

[okla-lawman]

I have a 30 and like it. It is a setious gun in a serious calibre. Yes traditionally the 3" will cause enough velocity loss to cause a decrease in ballistic performance. I was over at stoppingpower.com and there was a thread about just this. The had high remarks about the Golddot and hiw it was designed to parform in shorted barrels and still give excellen expansion.
The 30 is a little snappy when I fire it. I dont like to shoot much over a 100 rounds. I have a 21c and could fire it indeffinately. I would like to try a Paraordinance light da .45. I think they feel really good. I know a glenpool officer who traded his off due to relability issues, but that was bvefire the changed extractors.

[Buzzdraw]

The .45 ACP looses quite a bit of velocity with decrease in barrel length. In a custom 1911 with a 5" Kart barrel, a load with 200 gr. LSWC ran 940 fps. The same in a Colt Officer with factory 3 1/2" barrel went only 861 fps. Factory Glaser blue tip ran 1432 in same Kart barrel and 1318 fps in the Officer. Expect less velocity loss with the lighter bullets, as shown here.

Custom gunsmiths often cringe when a Para crosses their door, if the owner is looking for extensive work (beyond a reliability tune-up.) The frames are cast and pin locations and rails can be out of spec, to the point the gun cannot be worked on. Other times, the Para is fine and will make a good, long-term shooter. Many police agencies will allow a 1911 only if its a double-action style, like some Para's. I've seen enough trouble with Para's that I don't own one and probably won't.

A high-cap 1911 style mag WILL probably require tuning to the individual gun; this is in any caliber. The 1911 likes to run ammo with the same Overall Length (OAL) as a standard .45 ACP. They run pretty well in .38 Super and 10mm, because they are about that same OAL. It may require considerable gunsmith time get a 1911 to run well in 9mm, 40 S&W, and other like shorter OAL rounds. Most handloaders will seat these short rounds out long, the better to get their gun to run dependably. The feed lips have to be just right, the springs in correct condition, etc. for a high cap 1911 to run. My Glock and SIG high caps just run and run, with no tuning.

I too think SIG has a winner with the DAK style action; it's sweet!

[Randall]

I have had a P14 for more than 10 years. I cannot remember when it has ever malfunctioned. I have factory mags and aftermarket and they all work great.
Randall

[Michael Brown]

I have had a P14 for more than 10 years. I cannot remember when it has ever malfunctioned. I have factory mags and aftermarket and they all work great.
Randall

If you've got a good Para that is reliable, you're one of the lucky ones.

How much do you shoot? One of the biases a lot of us have is that those of us who shoot upwards of 1500 rounds per month is toward guns that have little mechanical difficulty and uncompromising reliability.

A lot of times I have noticed that guns that NEVER malfunction are not shot very much.

A lot of IPSC shooters that have reliable double-stack 1911's are on a first name basis with their gunsmiths. Personally, I don't like to use guns I can't fix myself.

Besides, with Dave Sevigney winning the Limited 10 national title this year with a Glock 35, I think more and more folks are beginning to realize that the 1911 vs Glock debate is not all it used to be. The operator is far more important than any particular gun.

Michael Brown

[Tulsa Shooter]

My G30's recoil is extremely light, hot 9mm ammo had more felt recoil than .45 ball ammo. I don't have huge hands, and the G30's grip feels perfect to me. How does the G21's grip compare to the G30's?

[mons meg]

Well, there's new Springfield XD models in .45 ACP (no, not GAP you heretic). 13+1 rounds, each one like a little American flag. (stole that quote)

If you hate Glock's 21/30, maybe check out the new XD?

If you like swinging Czech guns, the CZ-97 was built around 10+1 rounds, and basically whoops butt.

[Randall]

If you've got a good Para that is reliable, you're one of the lucky ones.

How much do you shoot? One of the biases a lot of us have is that those of us who shoot upwards of 1500 rounds per month is toward guns that have little mechanical difficulty and uncompromising reliability.

A lot of times I have noticed that guns that NEVER malfunction are not shot very much.

A lot of IPSC shooters that have reliable double-stack 1911's are on a first name basis with their gunsmiths. Personally, I don't like to use guns I can't fix myself.

Besides, with Dave Sevigney winning the Limited 10 national title this year with a Glock 35, I think more and more folks are beginning to realize that the 1911 vs Glock debate is not all it used to be. The operator is far more important than any particular gun.

Michael Brown

I only shoot around 4 to 600 rounds a month including .22's. I shot the Para pretty steady for about 3 or 4 years,but never really did get used to the grip size. I bring it out a few times a year and shoot it still. I must have got a good one. I have been shooting 1911's for over 25 yrs and I am used to the way they feel. I have had a couple glocks and never could get used to the way they feel. Steel or polymer does not bother me, I have a sw 99 .40 that feels pretty good in my hand.
And I agree with you, it's not the gun, it's the man or woman behind the gun.
Randall
ps, my Para is also the least accurate 1911 I have ever owned

[J.P.]

If Sig starts making a 220 in DAK, I'll have a new 45.



Michael Brown


Congratulations,Mike!................

http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/350601935/m/954103154

[Glockender]

You can always buy high cap type mags for the 45s (1911). I have 6 - 10 round mags for my Springfield and 2 - 7 round mags

[Michael Brown]

Congratulations,Mike!................

http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/350601935/m/954103154

I think you've found the next pistol I'm going to buy.

I've still got to get another AK and one battle rifle (308, haven't decided which one yet) but that 220 DAK will be the one after that.

Michael Brown

[Mack45]

Michael, not to hi-jack the thread but you mentioned a 308 battle rifle. Check these out, I've heard good things about them. I'm seriously considering buying one . Sarco is advertising one of them for 695. http://www.jldenter.com/
Mack45

[J.P.]

Mike Brown = SIG? :faint:

[Helmut]

If you are wanting a hicap 45......Glocks are great, but if you like a 1911 style pistol look at a STI VIP in .45acp......you can get it in light weight aluminum frame or a steel frame. I have shot the Alum. frame unit and it was very nice. It is a commander style 1911 with a slightly shorter grip, but still a double stack. I have 2 STI Edge double stack pistols and I like them.....1 in 40cal (I use for USPSA 3-gun) and 1 in 45acp (I use for He-man Class 3-gun matches). www.stiguns.com


As for the battle rifle suggestion for Mike, you might want to consider a Bushmaster BAR-10. I have heard that bushmaster has stop production of these, due to sales, but will still support parts for them. (they wanted to much for them on their suggested retail price, but now if you shop you can pick one up for $1100 or so).....I have used one for 2 years now and I cannot complain. It had been very reliable. The bolt release is very nice...just use your trigger finger, instead of your opposite hand like a AR15 or AR10. It has mag release button from either side and if you want to put in a match trigger, the lower takes all standard small pin AR15 parts (hammer, trigger, springs, pins, etc).....I installed a JP single stage trigger in mine. It takes FAL mags which are cheap and the reliable Bren 30rd mags are more reliable 30rd mags than M1A 30rd mags. The rifle will take metric or inch pattern mags, since the front notches on the mags slide into a void hole in the receiver. As for accuracy, with Aussie .308 It will hold .9 MOA all the way out to 400 yrds and with my secret sauce home loads, .7 MOA all day long. I used it in the Rocky Mountain 3-gun match (2nd Place - He-man class) in 2004, bone stock......in 2005 I sent it to JP Enterprises for a new comp/Adj gas block/Free Float tube/cryo the barrel and used it in the 2005 Rocky Mountain 3-gun (4th He-man class) and OKC USPSA 3-gun (1st Limited shooting all He-man equipment....45acp/.308/12ga pump in July 2005. It is even better now. With my secret sauce loads and the adjustable gas block, it had the recoil of a 75gr .223........double taps are very nice. But even shooting the Aussie Surplus....the recoil is better with the gas block and comp combination.

I hope this helps...

Garret Hawkins

[Cowman]

I have a Kimber Hi-Cap. It has the Bul frame. I had it worked on by Teddy Jacobson of Actions by T. It works fine. I have shot a Para LDA. It think although long, the trigger is to light for street carry. But, I have a mental thing about Canada. Stupid gun laws and such. If I didn't have the Kimber. A look at the XD might be worth doing. Regards

[R. Lee Gunn]

My duty weapon is a Glock G30, it is my CCW as well. Why? I wanted something light enough to carry on my hip for eight hours, and small enough to conceal for off duty carry. The grip is full size :grumble: (around) compact in length, so get Pearce grip extensions (PG30) for the 10 rnd mags. I do not have large hands nor do I have long fingers, however I have no difficulty operating the G30.
Recoil is medium to medium light with standard pressure loads, I have yet to use +P loads. I have run more than 1,000 rounds through it in the last 4 months, I put 300 of those rounds through it inside of an hour. I have yet to experience a failure of any kind, mechanical or human. I bought it new last spring, and yes I love it.
I have heard only good stuff about the G30 in person from folks that carry them. I personally know someone who had a problem because his hands are too wide and he could not hold it correctly, allowing the pistol to flip too much leading to a dificulty cycling rounds. He admits that if he had tried finger grip extensions it would have helped. He will tell anyone the Glock G30 is one of his favorite guns.

I find the Springfield XD .45 acp quite interesting :naughty:

Regards

[c10bonanza]

Welcome R. Lee