No Chance To Re-Act

[pete156]

One of our customers is a pilot for QT and was telling us what happened last Monday, I believe.

A man high on meth walked into a QT in Wichita and goes directly up to the counter, pulls a pistol and puts one right through the head of the 17yr old clerk behind the counter. Witnesses said that he had 0 time to react. Then the perp reached over the counter, grabbed a couple of quarters out of the open drawer, and was outside on the phone with the gun still in his hand when the police arrived. So, there was no real robbery or anything. He just had nothing better to do?

Is it truly possible to be ready for any situation that faces you? It's stories like that, that really freak me out. If somebody just gets a wild hair like that (high or not), what can you do? With alot of other self-defense situations, you at least have an inkling of what's going on. That poor boy had no time to react at all. :(

That's one reason I'd never let a kid of mine work in a convinience store. I know that crap can happen anywhere, but it seems more likely to gas station. I give credit to the CEO/President of QT though, he was on his way down to Wichita and our customer said he was very torn up. It shook him deeply. It's nice to hear a story such as that on his part instead of a standard press conference or whatever.

[J.P.]

You are reacting to a threat so you are already behind the curve in most instances.
With little or no training you are also behind because you have little or nothing to fall back on once the adrenaline starts to flow or no way to channel it.

[MarkV]

What a nice world we live in.

[Subsonic]

When its your time, its your time.

[berettaman]

Sounds more like an Execution.It's kinda hard to act or react to that.
I'd like to find the outcome of the scumbags situation.I'd hate to see this thing pled down to a 1st or 2nd degree Manslaughter charge.If Kansas has the Needle,this scum's the poster child for it. :mad:

[kgull85]

You are reacting to a threat so you are already behind the curve in most instances.
With little or no training you are also behind because you have little or nothing to fall back on once the adrenaline starts to flow or no way to channel it.

I understand what you are saying, but it is not always possible to antcipate an attack of this type. It doesn't even have to be an "attack", I mean if you are on a 2 lane highway and some guy coming the other direction decides he wants to swerve in your lane at the last second there's not much you can do. Although you could consider not working at a convenience store as being one way to stay ahead of the curve.

I suppose training would help you be "as prepared as possible" for something like this though.

[burner]

I suppose training would help you be "as prepared as possible" for something like this though.

Exactly.

[J.P.]

"Chance favors the prepared"

[pete156]

But how do you prepare for someone walking in the door of a BUSY CONVINIENCE STORE and shooting you dead right away. There's no way to help customers and pay attention to every surrounding detail in the same instant. If the scumbag was dead set on his goal and followed through fast then what. There no way to properly predict and prepare for every given scenario and this seems like a 0% chance of survival crime.

I'm not downing defense training at all. I believe that it will give you a much better chance of survival in 99% of what goes on, but I just don't know if it would have helped here or not. You would have to be alert and prepared to draw 100% of the time and we all know that that's not the case with normal human beings.

[J.P.]

But how do you prepare for someone walking in the door of a BUSY CONVINIENCE STORE and shooting you dead right away. There's no way to help customers and pay attention to every surrounding detail in the same instant. If the scumbag was dead set on his goal and followed through fast then what. There no way to properly predict and prepare for every given scenario and this seems like a 0% chance of survival crime.

I'm not downing defense training at all. I believe that it will give you a much better chance of survival in 99% of what goes on, but I just don't know if it would have helped here or not. You would have to be alert and prepared to draw 100% of the time and we all know that that's not the case with normal human beings.

Well not walking around with blinders on (like most do) is a great start,I think.
Having ZERO time to react is partly because he was not expecting to get shot that day so he was probably totally oblivious.
You can prepare for just about any scenario but whether or not you can apply it is another story.
Anybody could walk into a QT and plug the cashier.(please don't try that)They do not have a very good thug-proof system,AFAIC.
It's a tough situation and unfortunately I think it will get worse before it gets better.
I'd like to see a more secure system for the employees.

[AresV]

Well not walking around with blinders on (like most do) is a great start,I think.
Having ZERO time to react is partly because he was not expecting to get shot that day so he was probably totally oblivious.
You can prepare for just about any scenario but whether or not you can apply it is another story.
Anybody could walk into a QT and plug the cashier.(please don't try that)They do not have a very good thug-proof system,AFAIC.
It's a tough situation and unfortunately I think it will get worse before it gets better.
I'd like to see a more secure system for the employees.

Very well put. I always try to be aware of anyone within 20-25 feet of me when I'm out in public, regardless of where I am or what type of folks are around me. My wife gets annoyed with it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'm also starting to watch peoples' hands more so than their faces. No one ever died because someone else made a funny face at them. I'm even starting to get picky about where I sit in restaurants, especially ones with a single cash register where everyone pays for their meals. I always try to sit in a corner facing the door so I can see who's coming and going.

I too am surprised by the lack of security the QT counters have. I live in Norman right now (but will be moving to T-Town shortly;)) and even some of the convenience stores on the west side of town have bullet proof glass around them. The ones that don't are always against one of the walls so any threat will come at the cashier(s) head on. QT's counters are islands and exposed on all sides. Kinda tough to keep your head on a swivel for 8 hours, especially when you're working a busy weekend shift from say 2000-0400.

[kgull85]

I'm also starting to watch peoples' hands more so than their faces. No one ever died because someone else made a funny face at them.

This is where I think working in a convenience store would actually be more like negative training. Hundreds of times a day you would have customers reaching in pants and coat pockets to pull our their wallets, it seems like it would be tough to tell the difference if someone was reaching for a gun.

Also the way the QT registers are set up makes things worse since they have customers on both sides of the register and when the employee is helping one side his back is invariably turned towards the other line.

[brennan]

Will this change how QT does their cashiers?

[Ram_Tough_Truck]

Not as helpless as a teen behind a counter but tragic all the same.

In January Kenneth Thornton was driving in Jackson Ms with his fiancee'. He had just returned from a tour of duty in Turkey where he was with 172 Airlift Wing giving support to the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was also undergoing non-commisioned officer training but now he was home for a short while before redeploying Germany where the 172nd was operating medical evactions for the soldiers in Iraq. The day was sunny and he was enjoying a day of shopping with a nice dinner planned for his future bride. As he approached Clinton Blvd he changed lanes in front of a late model White Van. The driver started honking and gesturing with his hands. As he slowed to pull over to find out what the problem was the van sped up beside him. His head was turned toward his fiancee' speaking to her when the driver of the van fired one round through the driver's window directly into the back of his head. He was killed instantly.

Jackson Police had only the letters HED from the vans plate but had been unable to identify the person or make a arrest. Tuesday night Gregory Holmes, 38 turned himself in two months after the shooting. Holmes reportedly received word that police were closing in on him and decided to turn himself in.

[NikatKimber]

You know what is really scary? The kid wasn't even able to own a gun legally anyways, so even IF he had seen it coming, he would have been commiting a crime to have had a gun there. I'm a country kid myself, and love the little towns. I'm way too trusting, and have not even the slightest desire to live in a big city. So as someone said already, don't work in a convenience store, and don't frequent the bad parts of town if you possible can. The best self defense strategy if you ask me is to avoid the situation in the first place. My primary gun is a back up plan at best. If I were planning on having to use it, I'd drive a HUMVEE with a Browning .50 cal MG on top, maybe keep a bazooka with me too. I dunno? I won't live in D.C. to say the least!