Post Your Training Experiences: Read the Rules Before Posting

[F16mickey]

Close Quarter Tactics Review

I took the Close Quarters Tactics course taught by the Praesidium Group. For those of you who carry a gun and only practice at the shooting range you NEED to take this course. This course opened my eyes to the real world of self defense. I was so impressed with this training that I decided to write a review of the class so that some of you who are sitting on the fence will take this course.

This course started out with a four hour block on edged weapons. This showed the importance of an accessible small fixed blade knife. It also showed how to keep some distance between you and your would be assailant and what kind of clues baddies tend to give before they strike.

The next day we started working on hand to hand techniques, these are not the types of techniques that are designed to win contests. These techniques are something that is designed to keep you from getting knocked out or knocked down and allow you to get enough control of the conflict to go to weapons or give you enough room to get away from the situation.

We also learned to shoot at extremely close range. You would think that close range shooting would be easy but guess again. If you don’t have your body aligned right and the weapon in the right position you could possibly miss and turn your weapon into our weapon (as in your adversary gets a hold on your weapon).

After several reps of these techniques we went on to using these techniques against a live adversary. The person you are going up against is in a full body suit so there is no need to go “half speed” and you are given a simmuntion firing training weapon and are allowed to use training knives in the scenarios. This is as close as most anyone is going to get to the real thing without serious injury or death.

As night fell we switched gears and learned proper flashlight usage techniques. We also integrated the pistol into the flashlight usage. After a live fire drill using the flashlight we left the range for a little off site training. The scenario consisted of a dark alley, possible multiple adversaries and possible shoot/no shoot possibilities.

The final day of training focused on the usage of cover and movement as it relates to the real world. We also spent time on weapons retention techniques that were useful against both zombie and non zombie attackers alike. Overall this class was a real eye-opener for me. What I learned from this class was about 99% of the things that I thought I would do in a confrontation was not going to work well in the real world. If you are looking for a class that is going to make you the next IDPA/IPSC super shooter this is not for you. But if you are looking for a course that will help you successfully defend yourself in the real world this is definitely for you.

[J.P.]

Good review!
Thanks for posting.

[YukonGlocker]

Thanks for the review. It is this kind of info that makes gun forums worth while.

[TulsaDave]

I also attended the CQT class, and would like to second what Mickey said. What sets this class apart is that it teaches simple techniques designed to work under stress, and then runs you through force-on-force scenarios to teach you to operate under stress.

When you are in a fight, your adrenaline level rises and you lose your fine motor skills. Suddenly that precisely targeted round kick or that complex but very painful wrist lock won't work, because you just can't remember how at the critical moment. You may think this won't happen to you; but I have studied the martial arts for a long time and believe me, it happens. You'd also be amazed how easy it is to forget to breathe in a fight. The unarmed techniques that Mike and Brandon teach do not rely on fine motor skills or precise targeting, so you can actually use them when the chips are down.

Once you have learned some knife, unarmed, and close range shooting techniques, you move on to the force-on-force drills. This is about as close to a real fight as you should ever hope to get IMHO. There is a world of difference between punching half speed, half force with a training partner in a gym, and trying to get same-side arm control so you can draw your handgun with an attacker who is screaming death threats and punching you in the head. It is HARD to remember even simple techniques, your mind gets stuck in Orientation mode, bacause the situation changes too fast to decide what to do. It is HARD to keep yourself from reflexively drawing the gun too early in the fight (a real good way to get shot with your own gun). It is HARD to remember to breathe, so that after twenty seconds you are gasping like you just ran a marathon. If the first time you ever experience these things is in a real life situation, you need to be extremely lucky and probably a hell of a lot bigger than your opponent. Or OPPONENTS.

The first few times I ran force on force drills were depressing and disturbing for me. If those fights had been the real thing, I would have lost and probably died. But now I am learning to function under stress, and techniques are starting to work for me. This is a HUGE confidence builder. If you are the typical armed citizen, you are NOT ready to win a criminal assault until you have taken a reality based force on force training class like Praesidium Group's CQT class. [Not to burst any bubbles, but we all read the NRA Armed Citizen columns right? Ever notice that most of the shootings we hear about occur when someone kills a burglar or home invader in their own home? You don't often hear of an armed citizen shooting a bad guy who criminally assaults them out in the public domain. This is because the good guys usually lose in that situation.] There were two Afghanistan combat vets who took the class this past weekend, and even they learned a lot and were pleased with the class.

I sincerely believe that I was not ready to carry a weapon outside the home until I took this class. Take it, you'll be glad you did. Us Okies are very very lucky to have training resources like TDSA and Praesidium Group locally.

Thanks again to Marshall for hosting the class, to Mike and Brandon for teaching, and especially to Brandon and Trooper Stacy who took a whole lot of elbows to the head, knees to the crotch, and simunitions bullets (Ow!) everywhere over the course of the weekend. Good times!

[tacmedic]

My wife and I also took this course. We were looking for some weapons retention training before she started to carry concealed. What we got was a class that should be mandatory for all who carry a gun, be it citizen concealed carry or as a LE professional.

Carrying as a citizen comes with responsibilities, and I don't say this lightly when I say IF YOU ARE CARRYING WITHOUT THIS TYPE OF REALITY BASED FORCE ON FORCE TRAINING YOU ARE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE AND A LIABILITY TO YOURSELF AND YOUR LOVED ONES!!! :nutkick:

Now I know that comes as a real kick in the nutz to many of us manly shooting men with our manly shooting egos but it simply is the truth. I have had military training (to include Special Forces training), law enforcement training (as a reserve deputy and SWAT Team Paramedic) and I am dumbfounded:bigeye: that none of my previous training covered this stuff. SCARY!!! I'll be the first to admit that I am probably just an average shooter, but I believe in the motto train like you fight. And both of us now have MANY new skills (mental, tactical, shooting, using edged weapons, and hand to hand) to ensure we survive to go home if we're ever the victims of a criminal assault and isn't that what really matters.

As seasoned law enforcement officers they help you understand the nature and tactics of your enemy which is vital. And what they teach you works, my wife is 115lbs soaking wet and has never had any martial arts training yet she was able to repeatedly use what she learned effectively against much larger opponents in real force on force training scenarios. We were so impressed that we are going to join the training group so that we can continue to learn.

My deepest gratitude to Mike, Brandon, Eric, and Marshall. They gave 110% in teaching and in taking shots and rounds as the bad guys. When they have their next course you better sign up fast...because everyone at this class said repeatedly they were taking it again!

A special KUDOS to Marshall who is a gifted firearms instructor. He hosted this training not being afraid to bring in other experts and expand upons his own knowledge and abilities as well as his students. That is the mark of a true professional and the type of instructor I want to train with! And to Brandon who my wife and I have dubbed the ballistics crash test dumby. He took many a licking and kept on ticking without a single complaint.

[Michael Brown]

There should be some video of the course up here soon.

Michael Brown

[kgull85]

Will the course in October have the edged weapons training the night before like this one did?

[Michael Brown]

Will the course in October have the edged weapons training the night before like this one did?

Yes.

Michael Brown

[tacmedic]

Just got a DVD with some of the highlights from the CQT class.

I love watching the groundfighting scenario of my wife getting control of the situation and putting 4 rounds of simmunition in the back of the BG's (Brandon's) head!!! :bowdown:

I'm telling you, if you carry YOU GOTTA TAKE THIS CLASS!

Thanks again to Mike, Brandon, Marshall, and Eric. It was truely an awesome experience. Looking forward to training with all of you again.

[kgull85]

There should be some video of the course up here soon.

Michael Brown

It's been like 5 days already, where's the freakin videos? :P

I would really like to see some of them. Might help me convince the wife that I "can't afford not to" (I'm thinking of tradmarking that line) take the class.

[Michael Brown]

At the request of a couple members I am posting this sticky as an opportunity for members to discuss their training experiences.

I would like to confine this thread to trainers that either:

1) Are based in Oklahoma

2) Visit Oklahoma on a regular basis (i.e. Tom Givens, John Farnam)

Any others please start a different thread.

The rules will be:

1) Post only your own direct experiences. No rumors or second hand stories.

2) Post only factual information. If you post something that can be proven to be false and/or malicious, your ability to post in the Training and Self-Defense forums will be restricted.

3) You may offer constructive criticism regarding a training experience but you must provide examples. No drive-by sound bites or one-liners. This thread will only be for intelligent discussion.

Enjoy.

Michael Brown

[tacmedic]

Okay I guess I'll go first but most of you who read any of my post can guess what I'm gonna say.

To qualify my opinion here's a little background about me so you'll know I'm not totally full of BS. Been shooting all my life, no really I drew down on that sorry doctor who tried to spank me after I was born. ha ha No really I spent 10 year in the Army both active and reserve. Nine of it was in Special Forces first as a commo guy then as a medic and finally as a medic instructor at one of our clinical proficiency sites (Gallup IHS Hospital). Special Forces medics, SEAL corpmen, and Air Force Pararescumen all attend all or some portion of the 18 Delta course (Special Operations Medic Course) at Ft. Bragg. Gallup was the premier clinical training site in its day and we often had Dev Group and Operation Detachment Delta guys come out and bone up their medical skills while ramping up for a deployment. The Colonel who was the OIC at Gallup loved to shoot and I had the opportunity to shoot with these guys quite often during that time. While there I also volunteered as a reserve sheriff's deputy and medic for the SWAT team. Now I'm not claiming to be a great shooter I'm just telling you what experiences I have had to compare the guys I'm rating here against.

The Defensive Shooting Academy of Tulsa (TDSA)
Marshall Luton has one of the most impressive schools I have ever been too. He is an incredible shooter but is an even more gifted instructor. His enthusiasm and love of shooting is contagious. Hell, he'd have Diane Fienstein (sp?) converted to a gun enthusiest if she ever took one of his classes. Marshall has matured enough as a shooter and instructor that he clearly has no ego issues and nothing to prove while on the range. This means when you take his classes his focus is about you and your performance. He never claims to be the best or know it all and he has put together a brilliant group of instructors who's talents are in some ways superior to his own which he will readily tell you. Eric Fuson, Eric Stacy, Shane Richards, Curt Nichols, Billy Smith, Travis Foster, Pat Harker, and Vince O'neill are amazing. They continually work to improve themselves and their courses never ceasing to be dynamic and open minded in their approach. They got both my wife and daughter shooting to a level where they could ace any military or law enforcement course. I highly recommend taking any of their classes!

The Praesidium Group
When I asked Marshall where to find realistic and workable weapons retention training for my wife to carry concealed safely he went above and beyond by not only recommending training with Mike Brown and Brandon Bennett of The Praesidium Group he hosted one of their CQT (Close Quaters Tactics) courses this May. Not only did we learn weapons retention skills we learned tactics, edged weapons skills, psychological tools, the nature and contexts of criminal assaults, weapons access and use at extreme close range, night fire and flashlight techniques, as well as how we would be able to perform in a real situation through stress innoculation with live simmunitions training. This class was so awesome my wife insisted we join their monthly training group, to include our daughter, and to take the course again. I agree completely!!!

Looking over my past military and law enforcement training I am both dumbfounded and a little disturbed that none of this was incorperated into it. Major advancements are occuring in training and its because of dedicated experienced professionals like those above who are pioneering the way, challanging old ideas, and putting it to the test by suiting up and going at it 110% to see if it will really work or not.

I cannot give a strong enough recommendation for these guys. I served with some of the finest professional soldiers in the world, where the saying we had of 'you got my back and I got yours,' wasn't ever taken lightly. Thanks to TDSA and The Praesidium Group I am telling you now I'd go anywhere confidently knowing my wife had my back.

[38Super]

Will ditto what Tacmedic says about TDSA Tulsa. Have taken one class from Marshall and the gang there. Brian Hill, Curt Nichols and Pat Harker and the rest of them really want you to learn. Wonderful experience and came away with a better understanding of my gun and what proper training can do for you.

Have also had the opportunity of taking a one day class with Matt Mclearn(now with the US Shooting Academy in Tulsa) and also took a one day class from the late Steve Broom. Both of these classes were geared more towards competitive shooting.

If you have the opportunity to take a class from TDSA or Matt, JUMP AT IT.

What I have learned, may not always show at a match, but what matters is that you do learn something and enjoy our sport more.

Have not had the opportunity to take a class from Mike Brown yet but it is in the future plans.

[Kiyot]

I'd really like to hear something about the training classes that they have at H&H or maybe somewhere else here in OKC. The ones I see at TDSA or by MB are 2 day classes while H&H's are only 4 hours, but there are 5 levels of courses there which may end up equalling that of the 2 day courses after all is said and done. Thanks!

[XRF]

I have taken TDSAs AP Level 1 twice. Outstanding course with outstanding instructors. I have attended C.L.E.E.Ts firearms training for reserve officers and it is the only "training" I can compare to Marshall's product. TDSA got me off high center and made me a better than average shooter. Marshall will be the first to tell you that what he teaches is a "a way" not "the way". You can take it if it works and leave it if it doesn't. A great teaching attitude. Well worth the time and money. He has the gift of teaching.

[SoonerBJJ]

I am an Okie currently transplanted in Texas. I have trained with multiple out-of-state schools but one of the best I've worked with happens to be coming to Oklahoma in January 2007.

I took Combative Pistol 2 with Tom Givens of Rangemaster in April 2006. It was possibly the most well-rounded course I've taken and was an awesome experience. Tom gives very good talks on mindset and personal tactics as they apply to a defensive context. His block on the Miami FBI and North Hollywood shootouts is a unique offering that is a complete eye-opener.

About 80% of the 20 hours is spent on the range and covers a vast amount of content from basic marksmanship to movement drills, weak/strong hand and injury drills, longer distance shooting, barricade work and much more. He throws in an occasional competitive angle that is fun while applying a little bit of pressure. There is also a low-light shooting session on the first night that introduces the various techniques commonly used and offers the opportunity to experiment to find what is most useful. Tom's take will bust some commonly-held misconceptions about low light shooting.

This isn't much of an AAR but I thought so much of this course that I'll be trying to make it to Hinton to repeat it when Tom comes to Oklahoma.

[tacmedic]

THIS IS A COPY OF MY POSTING ON TDSA's SITE:

This weekend my wife and I attended TDSA's urban rifle course for the first time and I am still buzzing from the adrenaline...wide eye, slack jawed, and absolutely dumbfounded at how much we learned and how much we improved in our skills with a rifle. The instructors at TDSA are AMAZING!!!

My wife had never fired an M4/AR before. Now she can make ALL her hits from any range or position of her choosing to gain the tactical advantage. Standing, kneeling, prone, modified prone, scuba prone, right or left handed doesn't matter she'll nail you. I am so incredibly proud of her.

They had me shooting better with my left (formerly untrained side) than I could with my right side before taking this course. In one weekend they taught me more about manipulating and employing my rifle than I learned in 10 years of military experience (9 of them in Special Operations) and two years as a reserve deputy and SWAT Paramedic. NO LIE!

Every student out there got personal one on one teaching from all five of the instructors who were able to immediately diagnose and correct any errors made by the students. Each student was also pushed to their personal limits and well beyond. Students were never compared or contrasted against one another and instructors were generous with praise for a job well done. The excitement for their student's growth and improvement was genuine and their attitude and professionalism was absolutely contagious. This caused the students to rapidly form a very positive cohesive bond. It was incredible to watch, if one student yelled RED he was immediately covered by another student and usually more than one without any prompting by instructors. Students coached, supported, and praised each other even offering constructive criticism without anyone ever feeling embarrassed or ashamed. I have seen groups who have trained together for years who were not so supportive of each other.


Safety was the number one priority and out of such a large group of shooters there was not a single safety violation. Because of the atmosphere the instructors created and out the students respect for the instructors and one another there was never a single solitary second of lax muzzle discipline.

As TDSA joins with USSA I am both excited for the future and a little sad to see TDSA as I have come to know it go away. But I will tell you this, I don't care what name they go by or the specifics of their geographical location my family and I will continue to train with Marshall, Eric, Billy, Patty, and Travis so long as they are willing to teach.

USSA, you’re getting one hell of a group of instructors who are gifted shooters, gifted teachers, talented and motivational leaders, as well as moral role models. Our indebtedness, respect, trust, and loyalty lies with each of them individually and not to any organization or affiliation.

With our utmost gratitude,

Jeff & W.

[GMThunder]

I guess I really need to check this forum more often,

I took Marshall's AP1 aswell and am already getting funds together to take it again. Marshall teaches a top-notch course and is completely professional the entire time aside from a good sense of humor. Like many have said previously there are no ego issues whatsoever and student's errors are highlighted and corrected if you take their instruction.

One of the best testimonials I heard was from a guy that drove overnight from Montana? (I think) to be in our class. Regardless, he had named off a ton of classes/names from which he had received training from all over the country. He said Marshall's class was more informative than 99% of the classes he had taken and he called off some big names. That to me was quite impressive.

[AgentJBOND]

I took Will Andrews's 4-hour Pistol Skills 2 class at H&H for $60. Will gave a sales pitch during my SDA instruction at H&H, and Pistol Skills 2 is the entry level course after SDA. This was my first weapons training, so I have nothing to compare it with, but it certainly seemed like a good value.

Classroom
The first hour and a half was classroom time. Will reviewed and restated fundamental rules of weapons safety and communicated his philosophy emphasizing situational awareness to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Finally, he demonstrated the grip and stance he wanted us to learn and explained the reasoning behind it. Will was very relaxed (he loves to laugh) and the classroom presentation flowed well. It was immediately apparent that he spent time developing the structure of his lesson.

Range
Next, it was off to the range. Will and his two assistant instructors opened the H&H pistol range and placed targets on stands (no swaying on the regular range clips) with a paper plate in the center of each. We started at longer range (20yds?) and gradually moved the targets closer (3yds), with individual suggestions made between each 5 shots as necessary. He taught a couple of methods to increase shooting speed, and gave us ample opportunity to practice them. Will also demonstrated a basic weapon-retention technique, then he ended with practice suggestions and a short summary of what goes on in Pistol Skills 3.

Conclusion
The class ran 1/2 hour long, which Will said is normal. To me, this is basically 1/2 hour of additional training/practice for free, and I was glad to stay the extra time. I used 100 rounds of ammunition in total, but had there been fewer people to take turns shooting, I might have used closer to 200.
The class did seem large, but I was able to learn more by walking around to listen in on Will's advice to other shooters. I also felt that I got Will's full attention when he addressed my shooting or my questions.
All in all, I had a lot of fun and learned a new way to shoot. Thanks to Will's instruction, I am able to structure my range sessions to become a better shooter.
Pistol Skills 3 here I come!

[Chuck S]

I took the SDA instructor course at Shoot-N-Iron in March/April. The following is my opinion. I would not take any other classes there. If you were to cut out all the "war stories" and the different sales pitches for the other classes offered there, you could have probably cut the class length by half. Now having been a professional instructor in the Army, I understand the usefulness of war stories. You can definately overdo it though.
The training didnt seem to "flow" all that great either. Like they werent all that prepared for it. First time giving it obivously. Of course, most of that could be attributed to the courseware.
Actual scheduling of the class was pretty bad. A couple of hours of classroom Friday night. Saturday was cancelled due to weather. Of course a lot of us were in from out of town, staying in hotels. They didnt notify me until I got to the facility Sat morning of the cancellation. Had to return a month later to finish the course. Spent 4-5 hours on that Saturday standing in the rain (not sprinkle, cow pi$$ing on a flat rock rain) trying to get through the course of fire. That was a struggle for all. Then more classroom. Sunday was supposed to be more range, but range was deemed to be not necessary. We were all still waterlogged from the previous day so that was no big deal.
The instructors seem to be great guys that know their stuff.
Caveat- This is my sole "training session" as a civilian (excluding the SDA class). My only experience that I have to compare this to is numerous classes, both as student and instructor in over 23 years service in the Army. So I suppose that this could be considered "the norm".

[Soulman]

accidently posted, sorry

good info though

[tdavis]

Sorry for the delay! After a few technical difficulties the video has finally been posted....you can see it here:

CQT Class Highlight Video: http://www.tdsatulsa.com/

Video link is at the top of the home page, can't miss it!
CQT Class Image Gallery: Gallery Links (http://gallery.tdsatulsa.com/v/cqt/051205142006/)

A few screen shots from the video:

http://www.tdsatulsa.com/cqt_screen_small.jpg

http://www.tdsatulsa.com/cqt_screen.jpg

http://www.tdsatulsa.com/cqt_screen1.jpg

http://www.tdsatulsa.com/cqt_screen2.jpg

Sorry for the delay! :smack:

[kgull85]

Cool, thanks for posting it.

From looking at the contact range firing, I would guess that you would advise not to use a ported handgun for concealed carry?

[Michael Brown]

Cool, thanks for posting it.

From looking at the contact range firing, I would guess that you would advise not to use a ported handgun for concealed carry?

I'm forced to carry one at work, but if I had my choice I'd use a standard barrel.

I've done the course with the ported gun but its a little unpleasant.

Michael Brown

[Glock 'em down]

I'm forced to carry one at work, but if I had my choice I'd use a standard barrel.

I've done the course with the ported gun but its a little unpleasant.

Michael Brown

Hey MB, I've never owned a Glock "C" model. Does the porting "really" help that much with follow up shots and double taps? I mean, is it worth burning your face and ruining your night vision?

[Michael Brown]

Hey MB, I've never owned a Glock "C" model. Does the porting "really" help that much with follow up shots and double taps? I mean, is it worth burning your face and ruining your night vision?

It helps but it hurts more IMO.

It's not a worthwhile tradeoff to me.

Michael Brown

[Glock 'em down]

Hey Mike, doesn't TPD issue you guys that damned Safariland 070 SSIII holster? The kind that you have to enter your Social Security # (hence the model being named the SS) and fingerprint clearance to draw your weapon? Or do they issue the model 295? And if I were you, I'd slip a regular barrell into that G22! :thumb: I mean...who's gonna know?

[Michael Brown]

Hey Mike, doesn't TPD issue you guys that damned Safariland 070 SSIII holster? The kind that you have to enter your Social Security # (hence the model being named the SS) and fingerprint clearance to draw your weapon? Or do they issue the model 295? And if I were you, I'd slip a regular barrell into that G22! :thumb: I mean...who's gonna know?

They do issue the 070. Personally I think its the best LE holster out there.

Someone would know if I had a different barrel in there if I shot someone.

Michael Brown

[tams72]

TDSA is definitely for me...have had a couple of Marshall's classes and it has helped my more than I can say...of course I have the benifit of shooting with all of the guys at local matches too and they are still helping me even there. I love each and every one of them...Mike Brown included...If you ever have a chance to take any of the classes offered by any of the Tulsa crew please do...it is well worth the travel from OKC, or anywhere,...I can go into a situation (am in law enforcement as well as competition shooting) and know that with the training I have received I have a better knowledge base to pull from instead of the VERY terrified person I was about 3 years ago. I did not even want a gun in my home and they have helped by giving me knowledge. All of which I pass on to my kids (10 & 12). Respect...trust...are just a couple of words I can say about these guys...hope to be right beside them someday...(maybe a little ahead ;)...)

[SMS]

Just finished up the 2-day Assault Response Training out there....all I can say is it sure is refreshing to engage in some training that acknowledges the harsh reality of personal protection.

If you are lookin for some politically correct, clean and sexy training then this isn't the school for you. It's down and dirty, stick the gun in the SOBs face and finish the fight he started kind of training.

Good even split between range time and knocking each other around on the mats working simple, effective and easy to retain hand-to-hand drills (with and without weapons).

The instructors gauged our ability in the beginning and the pace/scope of the training was adjusted based on that assessment. War stories were saved for the breaks and lunch time...and never got a sales pitch for another class.

If you don't want to get bruised up and maybe catch an occasional elbow to the jaw....stick to the narrow lane courses.

[Thorgrim]

I attended the Urban Rifle course with TDSA this past weekend and I had a great time. We learned alot of of info on movement, bi-lateral shooting, reloading, team movement, weapon transitions and more. The instructors did a great job and made sure that everyone was up to speed and safe. For all you people who haven't sought out any professional training I would say do it; you'll be surprised how much you will learn. This was not my first TDSA class and it won't be my last. :thumb: I should also mention that I joined Mike Brown's monthly training group. I have taken his CQT class and the monthly training class is a great way to continue and improve the fighting skills we were taught. Mike is a great instructor and he really tests himself to make sure the skills that he teaches work.:thumb:

[davek]

I took the Basic Marksmanship course at TDSA on May 12, 2007. The instruction was excellent. The improvement made with a day of instruction is amazing. The technique presented works, I know if I practice what I learned I will get much better. We are very fortunate to have this quality of instruction available locally, take advantage of it!

[smokeyokc]

Someone asked about and posted regarding the classes at H&H. I have taken Pistol Skills 2,3,4,& 5, Home Shotgun Defense as well as Urban Rifle Defense. I can tell you all these classes have been well worth the money plus you can retread any class for a 75 to 85% discount. Will is an outstanding instructor and has a staff of instructors (probably volunteers) that insist on running a SAFE but hot range. That safe part means a lot to me in a room full of guys that I do not know personally that are carrying loaded pistols on their hips practicing live fire drills.


I thought I was a pretty savy shooter when I started the classes but I showed up ready to learn and did learn. Coming in with an open mind willing to learn something new is a key to your success in any of these classes. But taking what you learn and practicing it until it becomes muscle memory is the most important step in my opinion otherwise you wasted your money on the training.