Todd Jarrett video clip

[7point82]

I was surfing GlockTalk and found a link to this video. Nothing really new as far as information but it's always fun to watch guys like Todd shoot. :thumb:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=todd+jarrett&pl=true

[Michael Brown]

While anyone should appreciate artistry, I couldn't help but think that this video is indicative of why one should not rely on IPSC shooters as instructors of fighting technique.

There appeared to be three elements to Jarrett's technique that are incompatible with combat conditions.

1) Extreme precision in trigger finger placement. Try being that precise about placement when someone is shooting at you.

2) Overemphasis on target transition. If you can't establish that its a threat quickly enough to shoot it, you don't shoot.

3) "Popping" the gun out of the holster to achieve greater speed. If it goes wrong in a match, you lose some points. If you do it in a combat situation, you lose a lot more. Solid gripping every time as a habit is important in combat.

While IPSC helped take us away from dinosaur techniques like the weaver stance, the pendulum may have swung to far to where IPSC type competition is considered the cutting edge for combat.

Skill in competition has next to no correlation to skill in combat. IPSC and IDPA are fun but they are still pinball with guns.

It kinda galls me when a guy who has never been near a battlefield tells you that the techniques that have worked plenty of times are twenty years behind.

We can always improve and should never remain stagnant but we do have to evaluate technique designed for combat in a medium other than a pistol match.

My two cents.

Michael Brown

[7point82]

Question for you Mike.

Let me start by stating that I am an idiot in regards to fighting/combat pistol techniques and I know it. I do fully realize that what works on the range may well have NO place in defensive shooting and I hope others viewing this clip will keep that in mind.

One of the things I noticed, that you didn't comment on, was I couldn't help but wonder if his thumbs were in a bad place for defensive shooting. Seemed to me that they were rather high and might be a little too likely to rub the side of the slide and therefor induce a FTF/FTE. Thoughts?

[Michael Brown]

Question for you Mike.

Let me start by stating that I am an idiot in regards to fighting/combat pistol techniques and I know it. I do fully realize that what works on the range may well have NO place in defensive shooting and I hope others viewing this clip will keep that in mind.

One of the things I noticed, that you didn't comment on, was I couldn't help but wonder if his thumbs were in a bad place for defensive shooting. Seemed to me that they were rather high and might be a little too likely to rub the side of the slide and therefor induce a FTF/FTE. Thoughts?

Its not really a problem.

Its a good question though and one I get asked quite a bit in classes.

To demonstrate that it doesn't cause a problem, I push the tips of my support hand thumb and index finger really hard into the slide and then fire a full magazine.

I think Jarrett's grip is optimal for most people (including myself). Its the precision of trigger finger placement and a few other issues that I disagree with.

The grip is one of the great carryovers from IPSC.

Other carryovers from IPSC that I think are very appropriate for combat are the modern isoceles, the parallel ready position, and gun high reloading.

Most of the other factors that influence IPSC matches i.e. the type of movement that wins matches, target transitioning, and eye trigger coordination are not real helpful in real life and may be liabilities.

Michael Brown

[7point82]

Thanks Mike! :thumb: I appreciate your input on the subject.

[Buzz70]

Lat,

Thx for posting a link to the video. I learned a thing or two. I'm going to try griping the gun a little higher next time I'm at the range. Will try the pointing both thumbs at the target as well. We'll see how it goes.

Nate...

[Michael Brown]

FYI, the thumbs are only the indication that the support hand is correct, not the end goal.

Trying to just point the thumbs won't necessarily result in the desired effect.

What you want to do is cam your support hand wrist down as far as you can and then put your support hand in place in your two handed grip.

The result will be both thumbs forward.

Michael Brown

[Buzz70]

FYI, the thumbs are only the indication that the support hand is correct, not the end goal.

Trying to just point the thumbs won't necessarily result in the desired effect.

What you want to do is cam your support hand wrist down as far as you can and then put your support hand in place in your two handed grip.

The result will be both thumbs forward.

Michael Brown

Thanks for the advise Mike!

[7point82]

Buzz,
Now we're just gonna have to pick up a couple of these magic Para 1911s that apparently don't generate any recoil! ...or maybe start handloading 175 gr bullets to about 650 fps! :saywhat:

[RDS]

Mike,

Re. video - combat vs. games, do you have any thoughts on "Center Axis Relock", C.A.R. (www.sabretactical.com)??

I'd be interested in your take.

We were proselytized, didn't buy into the whole deal....some guys did adapt/adopt a few techniques that naturally dovetailed into what we were doing already, knew worked and had proven.... especially in close CQB scenarios.

Thanks!

[Buzz70]

Buzz,
Now we're just gonna have to pick up a couple of these magic Para 1911s that apparently don't generate any recoil! ...or maybe start handloading 175 gr bullets to about 650 fps! :saywhat:

Hell they must be cheap! Did you see all of them he had laying around? We could probably pick up 3 or 4 a piece. :wink2:

[Michael Brown]

Mike,

Re. video - combat vs. games, do you have any thoughts on "Center Axis Relock", C.A.R. (www.sabretactical.com)??

I'd be interested in your take.

We were proselytized, didn't buy into the whole deal....some guys did adapt/adopt a few techniques that naturally dovetailed into what we were doing already, knew worked and had proven.... especially in close CQB scenarios.

Thanks!

I think CAR has some usefulness such as being used out a driver's door but overall I think its a lot of time spent on some minor issues that could be better spent elsewhere.

A retired fella could have a lot of time to shoot though, so it might be worth a try.....:thumb:

Michael Brown

[TSQUARE]

was that an ltc he was shooting?