Shooting Iron

[SMS]

Anyone train with Mr. Abel out in Shawnee?

[Chuck S]

I took the SDA instructor course out there a few months ago. The following is my opinion. I would not take any other classes there. If you were to cut out all the "war stories" and the different sales pitches for the other classes offered there, you could have probably cut the class length by half. Now having been a professional instructor in the Army, I understand the usefulness of war stories. You can definately overdo it though.
The training didnt seem to "flow" all that great either. Like they werent all that prepared for it. First time giving it obivously. Of course, most of that could be attributed to the courseware.
The instructors seem to be great guys that know their stuff. Chevydriver and watchmaker were in the same class as I was so I'm waiting to hear from them on the subject.:thumb:

[Michael Brown]

Chuck, would you mind posting a review of the class in the sticky on training experiences?

Experiences and reviews will help our membership determine how to spend their training dollars.

Michael Brown

[Glock 'em down]

Paul Abel taught me everything I know. He's a retired Pottowatomie County Sheriff, an excellent marksman, a trained professional and just a helluva good man. Sure, he's as full of sh!t as anybody else and he does tell a truckload of war stories, BUT...the man definately knows his sh!t and he's not afraid to tell you what works and what doesn't! I've learned more from him than anybody else!

[SMS]

A buddy and I signed up for the Assault Response Training out there....I'll post some feedback when complete.

So far I don't like the fact that there isn't a fixed class schedule, but I can live with that if the training is good.

[Glock 'em down]

Well, I guess it's what kind of environment you are in most of the time. If you are in a heavilly populated urban area like T-Town or OKC, you PROBABLY won't appreciate what Paul is gonna teach you. Paul is a country boy...plain and simple. He teaches country boy tactics. "Always cheat, always win" is his (and mine) motto. Can his training be utilized in the big cities of OKC, Norman, Tulsa? Of course! Will you get valuable, fair, useful training? NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! Like I said, I am a student of Paul Abel and always will be until he (or I) finally "run outta ammo" Have you met him yet? When you do, be sure and shake hands with him. You wouldn't think the man could turn off a light switch, not to mention fire a weapon as profficiently as he does. Both of his hands a mangled and gnarled up and resemble the Star Trek Mr. Spock "Live long and prosper" hand gesture and he's a Southpaw...BUT BY GOD! HE CAN SHOOT!!! :thumb:

[SMS]

Just finished up the 2-day Assault Response Training out there....all I can say is it sure is refreshing to engage in some training that acknowledges the harsh reality of personal protection.

If you are lookin for some politically correct, clean and sexy training then this isn't the school for you. It's down and dirty, stick the gun in the SOBs face and finish the fight he started kind of training.

Good even split between range time and knocking each other around on the mats working simple, effective and easy to retain hand-to-hand drills (with and without weapons).

The instructors gauged our ability in the beginning and the pace/scope of the training was adjusted based on that assessment. War stories were saved for the breaks and lunch time...and never got a sales pitch for another class.

If you don't want to get bruised up and maybe catch an occasional elbow to the jaw....stick to the narrow lane courses.

[J.P.]

Just finished up the 2-day Assault Response Training out there....all I can say is it sure is refreshing to engage in some training that acknowledges the harsh reality of personal protection.

If you are lookin for some politically correct, clean and sexy training then this isn't the school for you. It's down and dirty, stick the gun in the SOBs face and finish the fight he started kind of training.

Good even split between range time and knocking each other around on the mats working simple, effective and easy to retain hand-to-hand drills (with and without weapons).

The instructors gauged our ability in the beginning and the pace/scope of the training was adjusted based on that assessment. War stories were saved for the breaks and lunch time...and never got a sales pitch for another class.

If you don't want to get bruised up and maybe catch an occasional elbow to the jaw....stick to the narrow lane courses.

Sounds good.
Don't forget to post a review in Mike's Training section.

[Jack T.]

The following is my opinion. I would not take any other classes there.

I would agree with this. Which is too bad, really, because Paul *seems* to be pretty involved in getting good stuff pushed through the State Legislature.

[AC37]

+1 to what Chuck S and Jack T said. Chevydriver and Watchmaker agree as well from discussing this very issue with them. Paul Abel seems like a nice enough guy and his legal efforts are much appreciated by us, but none of us really saw anything unique to his class that would justify making a trip all the way out there again for the other classes he offers since that training is available locally. For the most part all the firearms instructors we've met so far seem to have that elitist attitude and Paul was no exception, we can get the same attitude locally too without spending a lot of extra time and money driving that far out of our way.

[SMS]

I must have missed that....I didn't take it as an "elitist" attitude, but more of a sense of confidence developed from years of...wait for it....practical experience in the arena of killing another human being.

Confidence can sometimes be mistaken for elitism or arrogance, especially by those with large or fragile egos of their own, but they are a world apart. Elitist's generally don't like to let other folks join the party. Mr. Abel and C.W. were more than willing, and actually eager, to share their knowledge and experience....and they were very patient as the four of us in the class adjusted to the learning curve.

Keep in mind, I'm reviewing the ART class which is not a firearms class, but a personal protection lesson involving multiple aspects of armed/unarmed defense and offense....not many of these classes available in the OKC metro area. Like I said before....if you want to stick with narrow-lane firearms training, knock yourself out. Too bad it didn't work out for you guys, but I'll be back out there again soon.

[Cowman]

If you liked ART. Then look in to SCARS training. ART is a toned down SCARS class. The hand to hand part anyway. CW took scars training in AZ from the inventor of scars. I took scars back in 2001. I came back with a cracked bone in my foot. Black and blue all over. Learned many nasty things but it was tough. Regards