Pepper spray?

[J.P.]

How many carry O.C.,what kind,and how do you carry it?
Also have you ever been sprayed with it?

I carry fox Labs FivePointThree 2oz,usually in my pocket.
I've got the "cop-top" cone patten by default as I bought the last "flip-top" stream pattern for my wife and that's all they had.
Never had to use it but i know it burns like hell!

A friend and I voluntarily took a hit to see how bad it was.
I can't say that it was any worse than Tulsa PD's own Punch II (which I have been on the receiving end of a few times)but it was bad.
Breathing the stuff made my lungs hurt for about 8 hours.
:P
You could definitely fight through it if you were determined but it would be better than nothing in a confrontation.
I would rather have a non-leathal option if I need it.
Any thoughts?

[capmarine]

to carry oc we had to get hit with it.i remember a few years ago an OCPD officer got into a pretty good fight,he either got hit with his own or the suspect had his own,cant remember-the officer used deadly force!! it is a deadly force option if sprayed.

[edgargarrett]

Great stuff. It works well against dogs and bears too. I carry the Fed Labs MK-4.

In most jurisdictions, if you spray a police officer with it, he is justified in responding with Deadly Force.

[straight69jack]

I carry Sabre Red Stream
Never found it not to be strong enough to handle anyone that i have sprayed.
But Fox is mean, It burnt the hell out of my face and caused it to swell up from the chemical burns.

[Kelly Drown]

I'll have to remember that Fox brand. Where can you purchase that from locally? I bought a can of pepper spray for my wife to carry all the time but it's been a couple years now so it probably needs replacing. Don't remember what kind it is, but sounds like the Fox brand you mentioned is the stuff to get.

-Kelly

[straight69jack]

http://www.defensedevices.com/worhotpepspr.html


That is were I buy mine from havent seen it locally yet, also I have found that you can find OC on Ebay at a very discounted rate, It will be outdated but believe me it only gets hotter.
HAPPY SHOPPING

[bulbboy]

Sounds like a good idea to carry - I never thought about it -

[J.P.]

I'll have to remember that Fox brand. Where can you purchase that from locally? I bought a can of pepper spray for my wife to carry all the time but it's been a couple years now so it probably needs replacing. Don't remember what kind it is, but sounds like the Fox brand you mentioned is the stuff to get.

-Kelly

I bought the 5.3 at a local gunshow.
You can either order it straight from Fox labs or just go to OPS and get some Punch II

[Michael Brown]

I carry Sabre Red in a cone dispersion.

I took a Glock 21 mag pouch by Bianchi and filled it with water and left it all night. Then I dampened it again in the moring and put the can in the pouch and let it dry all day.

I now have a fast access belt pouch for OC.

Michael Brown

[capmarine]

if i get back into law enf.i will carry sabre red,foam,again.(law enf)

[straight69jack]

i dont like the foam, an old manager that i worked security for carried foam, and the people can thorw it back at you so becareful.

[GMThunder]

I bought my G/F some Fox labs stuff till I teach her how to shoot/gets her CCW. Hope she never has to use it.

[straight69jack]

Amen

[Michael Brown]

GMThunder,

You may have meant this in your post, but OC should be a complement to, not a replacement for, a firearm and vice-versa.

Anybody who carries a firearm for self-defense is far more likely to need a less than lethal force option.

If you are serious about self-defense and not just into shooting, you must carry both.

Michael Brown

[walpur6isknight]

i sprayed myself with my mothers when i was young.
wow, that stuff took my breath away.
dont carry it, but i should get some.

[capmarine]

dont take your spray to a gunfight.

[edgargarrett]

Always have it when you don't have a gun, and even when you do.

[okla-lawman]

Oc on your person also can help in the post shooting law suits or god forbid
and overzealous proseutor. It is hard to say tha you were out looking to shoot somebody like a vigilante if you have an intermediate weapon such as oc. It is much like off duty cops not carrying some sort of hand cuffs. It has been brought up in court trying to make the officer look blood thirsty planning on taking no prisoners. I used to carry a small canister of oc for just this reason. I should probablu restart.

[capmarine]

when officers carried more revolvers than now,many dept's had their armorers make their revolvers so the hammer could not be cocked.defense atty's were accusing officers of cocking their firearms-AD's do happen and executions of prisoners.yes,always carry restraints-if not handcuffs,plastic cuffs.kind of like carrying extra ammo!

[J.P.]

****Direct thread rip-off from Glocktalk****

"Got to thinking a minute ago.....Ive seen more than one story lately where criminals are using OC or Tazers, to subdue or incapacitate a victim...

IIRC, police can shoot if an attacker takes their OC from them, or if they are being threatened with OC or a Tazer.

Also, I can hear the Lawyer "My client was using a NON LETHAL means of force, and Joe Blow responded with Deadly Force."

So, If you were threatened with OC in a close-up situation, running isnt an option, would you shoot?"


Anyone care to respond?
Michael?

[bratch]

I called the Cleveland County DA right after the woman got mugged on campus with OC. The lady gave me the run around so I'm still not sure on the situation.

[okla-lawman]

Oc spray would be classified with assault with a dangerous weapon if you get the right DA or simple assault if you dont. On a Police officer it is different. wheither attacked by his own oc, taser, or another persons, deadly force is allowed as if the officer has been incapacitated his own weapon may very well be used against him. In fact my dept policy spells that out then oc you
glock.

[chvylvr350]

****Direct thread rip-off from Glocktalk****

"Got to thinking a minute ago.....Ive seen more than one story lately where criminals are using OC or Tazers, to subdue or incapacitate a victim...

IIRC, police can shoot if an attacker takes their OC from them, or if they are being threatened with OC or a Tazer.

Also, I can hear the Lawyer "My client was using a NON LETHAL means of force, and Joe Blow responded with Deadly Force."

So, If you were threatened with OC in a close-up situation, running isnt an option, would you shoot?"


Anyone care to respond?
Michael?

I am not a lawyer or a cop but here is my opinion.

I would imagine that cops are given authorization to shoot because even though the criminal is using less-lethal weapons, it would allow the criminal to obtain a lethal weapon, the cops sidearm. I think that if you shot someone that used a taser or OC on you, you would be justified by the fact that if your armed your life is in danger if they get ahold of your firearm.

[capmarine]

city officer killed an attacker that used oc on him.

[David Crockett]

OC spray isn't fun stuff. I have had it used on me. Training! You have to learn how to react while useing it , or have it used on you. I can't justifie shooting. Don't know all details,always two sides. You need to try it on your self. Not fun. If he was that close the person was trying to harm the policeman. It has to wear off and you can aid relief by useing water. DON'T rub what ever you do. DC

[Jon3830]

if someone sprays another person with the intent to rob them you can almost bet that your life could be in danger. while they are looking for your wallet they could find your weapon then what happens? if one person shoots another in what they believe is self defense and you can prove that you felt your life was in danger. i am a disabled veteran and due to my disability OC and CS spray will close off my airway so if im in a dark parking lot and someone approachs me with spray and im certain they want me they will be talking to the business end of my glock.

[ChrisC]

when i was a street officer i carried sabre red, like michael brown, that stuff does the trick.

I bought my wife "body guard" we did some independant testing when i worked at pittsburg county, body guard was the only spary that not only hurt but made our jailer throw up....

[J.P.]

The FivePointThree had me right on the cusp of vomiting just from the excess mucous I was gagging on.

Just lettin ya' know.
;)

[TwoBravo]

Lets see here, I carry Sabre 10% OC in a combo Cuff/OC pouch. That's all it really says other than the fine print and BS. It's a black label with a blue stripe. I don't know how well this particular brand works though. However, I do know that the Glock 19 on the right side works. Like some on here I am former law enforcement and was required to get sprayed in the basic academy. However, those jerk instructors hit us all with a Mk. 9 can of liquid Satan. :madbox:

[Tulsa Shooter]

Fox Five point three is some nasty stuff, I have no doubt it would take 99.9%of people out of the fight.

[1shott]

I bought a can of First Defense MK-3. Stream.

How good is that stuff?

I have been meaning to order some Fox.

This is for around the yard, nieghbor lets his dogs run loose, they like to try to bite.

[Michael Brown]

I bought a can of First Defense MK-3. Stream.

How good is that stuff?

I have been meaning to order some Fox.

This is for around the yard, nieghbor lets his dogs run loose, they like to try to bite.

Look for 2 numbers:

1) the dilution percentage

2) the Scoville Heat Units or SHU's.

That will tell you a bit about the quality.

I prefer the cone or fogger to the stream for the use you describe.

Michael Brown

[RDS]

For dogs:

Fog,foam, and stream have all worked for me. It's really best to get the "magnum" or "long range" version of whichever you choose.

You'll be able to double or triple your striking distance...giving the OC more time to work and giving you more time and space to react. At close range, more product will be applied with more force...good things!

[NikatKimber]

how much gets in your own face if any when used? is it pretty moch contained to where you aim it? I cant' carry a gun at school, thinking about pepper spray.

[kgull85]

I think someone on here (other than me) should volunteer to be sprayed with several different brands of OC and then report which one is the best.

I have some Fox 5.3 that I usually carry.


The comment about having OC being helpfull for a lawsuit could also be flipped the other way. "Why did you use your gun when you had the OC? You could have used it and it would have stopped the attacker."

[Michael Brown]

I think someone on here (other than me) should volunteer to be sprayed with several different brands of OC and then report which one is the best.

I have some Fox 5.3 that I usually carry.


Its been done.:)

I take a hit every other year in training.

My experience has been that among the quality brands there isn't much difference.

The carrier and configuration seem more important than anything else.

Michael Brown

[rokkit]

I ordered some of the Fox spray but I don't think I'm going to try it out on myself on purpose. :bigeye:
lol

[Kelly Drown]

Wow... old thread. :) I ended up buying several cans of the FOX spray. I keep one in my car, and my wife keeps one in her car. Mostly because I'm an idiot and bought the 4oz (or whatever the big can was) can not realizing how big it would be. I've since ordered here the smaller size for her to carry in her purse.

Question though... is it legal to carry around pepper spray on your belt out in the open? Like when I go camping, I carry that one around on the outside of my belt but I don't really know if it's legal in all states. I assumed it was.

-Kelly

[berettaman]

I'm assuming it's legal since I've seen women with it on their keychains.

[kgull85]

Wow... old thread. :) I ended up buying several cans of the FOX spray. I keep one in my car, and my wife keeps one in her car. Mostly because I'm an idiot and bought the 4oz (or whatever the big can was) can not realizing how big it would be. I've since ordered here the smaller size for her to carry in her purse.

Question though... is it legal to carry around pepper spray on your belt out in the open? Like when I go camping, I carry that one around on the outside of my belt but I don't really know if it's legal in all states. I assumed it was.

-Kelly


I think I've read on the internet (so it has to be true) that pepper spray is not legal in some states. I haven't found anything that restricts it's use here in OK though.

[enidpd804]

Legal to carry as far as I know.

[bulbboy]

Wow... old thread. :) I ended up buying several cans of the FOX spray. I keep one in my car, and my wife keeps one in her car. Mostly because I'm an idiot and bought the 4oz (or whatever the big can was) can not realizing how big it would be. I've since ordered here the smaller size for her to carry in her purse.

Question though... is it legal to carry around pepper spray on your belt out in the open? Like when I go camping, I carry that one around on the outside of my belt but I don't really know if it's legal in all states. I assumed it was.

-Kelly


MAN, its nice to hear from the "Godfather"!!!

[Crosstimbers Okie]

I'm satisfied with Fedlabs MK-4 Stream. I've used it one quite a few dogs, drunks & retards and it has never failed me.

[J.P.]

Question though... is it legal to carry around pepper spray on your belt out in the open? Like when I go camping, I carry that one around on the outside of my belt but I don't really know if it's legal in all states. I assumed it was.
-Kelly
Legal here but I couldn't tell ya' about other states.

Welcome back!
;)

[7point82]

What the hell is wrong with me that I want a FOX 6 oz Grenade and one of their penetrating tip tactical models???

http://www.foxlabs.net/special.htm

Either would be handy for those pesky door to door solicitors that don't want to take no for an answer. LOL :selfangel

[rugerdude]

I just purchased the new spray made by Kimber for my wife. I figured if they made it ,it would have to be pretty good. Has like a 13 ft. range.

[J.P.]

I just purchased the new spray made by Kimber for my wife. I figured if they made it ,it would have to be pretty good.

Unless it has the external extractor that "isn't a problem". :)

Let us know how it works.

[oklahomabuilder]

I'm actually thinking about getting my wife some. And yes, I have been sprayed with it during a Nonlethal and Weapons Tactics Course in the USMC. Not something I would prefer to be on the recieving end of again. After being sprayed, you went through "the Gauntlet" utilizing various HTH techniques. The key to it was to keep your head tilted down, therefore any sweat that you produce will cause it to drip down past your eyes. Obviously, this will only work to an extent.

[ef9turbo]

i carry sabre red with 10%OC and 2,000,000 SHU's.. i dont think there are any laws against carrying OC, but if sprayed, you could be sued for it.. so be prepared for the lawyer to ask you if you've had training in it because they will :P theres always that liability issue!

[Glock 'em down]

I don't carry OC/pepper spray, but I sometimes think that maybe I should...

[ef9turbo]

I don't carry OC/pepper spray, but I sometimes think that maybe I should...

i think you should start again :P OC is just another alternative for my protection against someone i probaly wont be able to fight myself out of :P

[underdog]

I tell folks I am too old to fight and too proud to run, so they'd best leave me and my limited options alone.:)

I keep some pepper spray around, although I'm not a big fan of it in civilian self-defense situations. I usually carry it when walking with my wife and JRT. I'm not going to shoot a dog and then maybe have to shoot his owner.

[Glock 'em down]

i think you should start again :P OC is just another alternative for my protection against someone i probaly wont be able to fight myself out of :P

I dunno. I quit carrying a baton when a DISTRICT JUDGE told me I was too damned big to carry it and that I would get sued (and lose!) for hitting somebody with it. I figure OC is the same song and dance...

...besides...I've been hit with a dose of that sh!t when we became qualified to carry it. Let me tell ya...I'll pull out my Glock and shoot somebody before I'll use that crap on them! It would be more humane! That pepper spray is some BAD medicine!!! :nolike:

[NikatKimber]

:spitlaugh

I just read your sig line... those in the second category... well.. whew!!

[Glock 'em down]

:spitlaugh

I just read your sig line... those in the second category... well.. whew!!

NOBODY likes plumber's crack!

[NikatKimber]

what was that song...

when a 'ho was just a hoe, and crack was what happened when a fat boy bent over!

[ef9turbo]

I dunno. I quit carrying a baton when a DISTRICT JUDGE told me I was too damned big to carry it and that I would get sued (and lose!) for hitting somebody with it. I figure OC is the same song and dance...

...besides...I've been hit with a dose of that sh!t when we became qualified to carry it. Let me tell ya...I'll pull out my Glock and shoot somebody before I'll use that crap on them! It would be more humane! That pepper spray is some BAD medicine!!! :nolike:

to big to use a baton?? so you trying to tell me judge john doe said that you were to big to use a baton, because, you're to big?? :P what is there like a size limit? just because you are a bigger man does not mean you should have that extra alternative.. hmm.. i guess id be okay then, since im only 165lbs.. :P

[DanB]

FYI H&H has started carrying Red Sabre peper spray. You will pay more at the store than you can get it online, like I had to tell you. But if you want to see what size the canisters are in person before you order online you now have a place to put hands on product.

Just FYI
Dan

[Scott4957]

Anyone ever use the kimber lifeact spray? I just bought one for my wife, I hear its pretty nasty stuff and it shoots droplets out at 90mph up to 13ft. She's going to carry it until she gets comfortable with a pistol and gets here CC license.

Scott

[ItsSuppressed]

I Carry The Sabre Red (le Unit) 10% 2,000,000 Shu. It Works very Well I Had To Get Hit With It Something I Never Want To Do Again.

[YoungBuck07]

I carry Punch II 2k3 M-4 it is some bad sh!t 6ft stream that will knock a bull down! 45.00 a can!

[YoungBuck07]

I definetly agree when I got certified to carry it the Oleoresin capisicum really burns I would rather be shot with a gun or taser!

[Michael Brown]

I carry Punch II 2k3 M-4 it is some bad sh!t 6ft stream that will knock a bull down! 45.00 a can!

FYI,

Punch II is a 5% concentration spray with a 2,000,000 SHU Capsaicin.

Thus its SHU value is about 100,000 making it about half as hot as other commercially available sprays.

There are plenty of available brands with an SHU value of 200,000.

Michael Brown

[Bludragonfly]

I don't know if anyone has tried body guard, but it is used pretty widely by law enforcement. I have used fox and they are great, but body guard is stronger and oil based. You can get it in a cone, spray, fog, and in a foam. I have seen people still get up and fight after being hit with pepper spray. I haven't seen anyone take a hit of body guard and still want to fight.

[okgr8outdrs]

I carry some Sabre stuff that I pried out of the big gawky key chain thingy.

I was trying to spray a stray cat in my garage tonight and got a big faceful of stuff that was just floating in the air. It wasn't too bad, but I wouldn't want to take a direct hit for a second or two.

I am going to check out the Fox stuff.

[Marshall Luton]

You should check out TigerLight's new T100. It is now available and has proven itself to be a very versatile little tool. It's a flashlight that fits into the palm of your hand and has a variety of different functions including a red map reading light (25 hours of run time), a single bulb LED (25 hour run time) a dual bulb LED that's a little brighter and then a tactical switch for a very bright light that offers a 1.5 hour run time in this mode. If you press the tactical switch and turn on the brightest setting then press the switch for the other lights it strobes! Did I mention it has pepper spray in it too. Your thumb sits on the trigger and your fingers control the lights. It's very easy to use, takes only one lithium 123 battery and you can buy a couple of different types of sprays.

I recommend the Sabre Red over all the others. It has shown to have the best spray pattern and the greatest distance (7-10 feet). You can find these on the internet at www.tigerlight.net. Hope this helps.

Marshall Luton

[J.P.]

Interesting, I'll have to check those out.

Carrying Sabre Red now because it was the best in stock at OPS.

[ef9turbo]

Interesting, I'll have to check those out.

Carrying Sabre Red now because it was the best in stock at OPS.

How often do you go through a can?

[J.P.]

I buy a new can every year.
I haven't been up to getting sprayed again yet.

[okgr8outdrs]

That TigerLight is very cool.

I was talking with someone at work about incorporating a small can of pepper spray into my Scorpion light. If I switched to a 3 volt Strion lamp, I could eliminate 1 of the CR123 batteries. If done right, I could relocate the switch to the side and cut the rubber cover enough to allow the spray to exit.

[one-non-blonde]

Can Fox 5.3 be found locally?

[J.P.]

Can Fox 5.3 be found locally?

Not that I'm aware of.
Sometimes you can find it at the gunshow.

Really though, in my opinion, there is no reason to seek only the Fox stuff when your local police supply probably carries Saber Red.

[MyMonkey]

Well, coming from an ex cop turned lawyer. All I can say is geez that stuff burns. Was sprayed several times with it. Twice during training sessions and several times on duty. Some guys just spray that stuff everyhwere.

[J.P.]

Well, coming from an ex cop turned lawyer. All I can say is geez that stuff burns. Was sprayed several times with it. Twice during training sessions and several times on duty. Some guys just spray that stuff everyhwere.

HAHAHA!
As I've said before: Everytime OC is in use, invariably I'm downwind from it.
:puke:

[Peabody]

How many carry O.C.,what kind,and how do you carry it?
Also have you ever been sprayed with it?

I carry fox Labs FivePointThree 2oz,usually in my pocket.
I've got the "cop-top" cone patten by default as I bought the last "flip-top" stream pattern for my wife and that's all they had.
Never had to use it but i know it burns like hell!

A friend and I voluntarily took a hit to see how bad it was.
I can't say that it was any worse than Tulsa PD's own Punch II (which I have been on the receiving end of a few times)but it was bad.
Breathing the stuff made my lungs hurt for about 8 hours.
:P
You could definitely fight through it if you were determined but it would be better than nothing in a confrontation.
I would rather have a non-leathal option if I need it.
Any thoughts?


I accidentally sprayed myself in the eyes with Mace about 20 years ago. The pain was excruciating. It was if someone was holding a lighted match against my eyeballs and the skin surrounding my eyeballs. It hurt like hell for 15-20 minutes before it slowly started to wear off. I can tell you that there would have been no fight through buy me. It would not have been possible. First of all, you can't see anything. Second, you are only worried about flushing your face with water. Third, you are worried that you are going to be blind for the rest of your life. Nothing else in the world matters. Did I mention the excruciating pain.

[shotty]

A buddy of mine and me were riding with my friend Angie in her truck. I was shotgun, Jamie(my buddy) was digging around in Angie's purse and found some breath fresher right on top. You guessed it, wasn't breath fresher, as Angie was saying NO! Jamie took a big mouthful. Thankfully the hospital was about 3 miles away. Locked up his airway tighter than Fort Knoxx. Jamie suvived, this was 25 years ago and I think it was tear gas. I never forget the look on his face though.

[Slack One]

For personal use, what are the upsides and downsides of cone vs. stream vs. fog? I like the idea of cone just for the likelihood of getting a better "hit" and a better chance of inhalation than stream, but is it much easier to get yourself with a cone?

Also, are the Sabre Red pen sprayers viable at all? At .36oz, they're half the payload of Sabre's pocket-sized cans, but I don't really know how that translates into actual use.

[okcowboy]

For personal use, what are the upsides and downsides of cone vs. stream vs. fog? I like the idea of cone just for the likelihood of getting a better "hit" and a better chance of inhalation than stream, but is it much easier to get yourself with a cone?

I am bumping this thread b/c I would like to see some comments on this question also before I buy some for my wife and me to carry. The cone seems like the way to go so aim isn't as critical but I am worried that the cone might be dispersed enough to get on me too.

[repete34]

I like this one... http://www.safehomeconsulting.com/gpage2.html

[MyMonkey]

Personally I like foam. Comes out very thick and you stand much less chance of giving yourself a dose of this stuff. :D It is what most police are using. Or it was 10 years ago. :mean: I am getting old apparently.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

I don't like the foam. Too easy for the person you are spraying to wipe it off of their eyeglasses and fling it back at you.

But, I have found OC to be like most things in life--the more experience you have with it, the better you handle it. Working in prisons the past 18 years I've eaten a lot of OC, CS, & CN--to the point that it isn't that big of a deal anymore. If you carry this stuff, get a little on you from time to time so that you know what to expect. It's good stuff, but it's not devastating to people who have experience with it, whether it be you or the ex-con who is attacking you.

[POSITIVE DISCONTENT]

Have 4 3.1 oz cans of body guard that has a cone or stream select on the side. Haven't used it but have one at each door and in wife's car and my truck.

[Oklahomabassin]

Have 4 3.1 oz cans of body guard that has a cone or stream select on the side. Haven't used it but have one at each door and in wife's car and my truck.

That will teach those solicitors! LOL

[J.P.]

For personal use, what are the upsides and downsides of cone vs. stream vs. fog? I like the idea of cone just for the likelihood of getting a better "hit" and a better chance of inhalation than stream, but is it much easier to get yourself with a cone?

Also, are the Sabre Red pen sprayers viable at all? At .36oz, they're half the payload of Sabre's pocket-sized cans, but I don't really know how that translates into actual use.

I am bumping this thread b/c I would like to see some comments on this question also before I buy some for my wife and me to carry. The cone seems like the way to go so aim isn't as critical but I am worried that the cone might be dispersed enough to get on me too.

I don't like anything less than a 2oz can, but I've never actually tried the little pocket or pen sized ones either so :anyone:

Cove vs. Stream...
The comments already made are pretty much accurate.
With stream you need a better aim, but with cone you have a higher chance of getting it yourself.
I feel that this should be of little concern to the user because iMO, you should get sprayed with the stuff youself if you are going to carry it so you know what to expect.
I'll admit I've not taken a hit in quite a while now but I used to on a regular basis...maybe every year....and anytime the cops bust one out, I'm invariably somewhere in the path of it. :scratch:

I've probably taken more sprays to the face than any average citizen outside the cast of "Jackass", and while it definitely sucks, at no time did I ever lose the ability to fight through it.
Again, I believe your ability to withstand it should be regularly tested rather than guessed at.
...that's just my opinion.

I don't like the foam. Too easy for the person you are spraying to wipe it off of their eyeglasses and fling it back at you.

But, I have found OC to be like most things in life--the more experience you have with it, the better you handle it. Working in prisons the past 18 years I've eaten a lot of OC, CS, & CN--to the point that it isn't that big of a deal anymore. If you carry this stuff, get a little on you from time to time so that you know what to expect. It's good stuff, but it's not devastating to people who have experience with it, whether it be you or the ex-con who is attacking you.

I don't like foam either and find the others to be more efficient in their delivery.
OC will completely incapacitate some people, and others it will have no effect on whatsoever.(for all intents and purposes)
I do not carry OC with any degree of enthusiasm towards it's effectiveness.
I carry it only to buy time/distance, or to possibly de-escalate a situation.

If it turns out to work like an atom bomb on the bad guy...GREAT!
But I don't count on it.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Yes, they say that it's only effective on about 90% of people.

But, it does work well on dogs. My only self-defense shooting was a dog and it could have been avoided if I had had OC. Since then, I've sprayed four dogs. I don't even allow them to get withing bite range anymore. At the first snarl & bared teeth I shut them up and send them away.

[iriediver]

got hit with oc spray prior to deploying. why, i have no effing clue. but it was one of the more memorable experiances of the deployment.

[lineflyer9]

If you carry pepper spray give it a small test shot to make sure it works. I bought pepper spray for my wife many years ago in Kansas City. She had been carrying it for 2 years. One night as we came home driving up the alley a large german shepard always chased our car so I asked my wife for the pepper spray. Just wanted to see what a small shot would do on the dog. It just dribbled out the end. I only trust a revolver since then.

[bettingpython]

But, it does work well on dogs. My only self-defense shooting was a dog and it could have been avoided if I had had OC. Since then, I've sprayed four dogs. I don't even allow them to get withing bite range anymore. At the first snarl & bared teeth I shut them up and send them away.

Not always, I had a red nosed pit that chewed open my 2oz can I left laying on the coffee table one night when I had to go bale my ex out of jail. I walked back in the house and couldn't breathe he was laying in the corner licking the can as it came out of the puncture he made.

Had a substitute mail man one time our regular guy got along great with the dog. Guy didn't even have to get close to the dog but decided to spray him with the wimpy .5% OC they get issued, pissed me off and the dog just wanted to play he wanted the can as a chew toy.

Don't depend on it to save you from a bite.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Well, they say that OC only works on about 90% of people. Maybe it's the same with dogs...

[FullAuto]

I carry Sabre Red on duty. When I took the hit, it made my left eye blink and I spit alot (it tasted bad). It felt like a pretty bad sunburn. I won't say that it didn't have any affect on me, but for all intents and purposes, I am immune to it.

[Silly_Goose]

As far as the cone vs. stream topic, in my unexperienced view, I'd think that in windy Oklahoma, I'd be better off getting the stream for my wife. She works at a mall here in OKC and I want her to have something more than her gaggle of girlfriends to walk with to her car. That and I doubt she'd take the time to check the wind direction when she decide to hit someone.

Thanks for all the advice in this thread!

[skyydiver]

Okay, been through all 7 pages...twice, and no mention of Sabre 3-in-1 so I'm gonna ask. Packaging says it's Sabre Red, Tear Gas, and dye. Fine. Is it going to be less effective than 100% Red???

The reason I ask is because I got my wife one of the cutesy pink Sabre Red key chain units, and wanted a regular pocket can myself. At Bass Pro, the pink units were the only ones with "Sabre Red" on the package. Every other type of can was "Sabre 3-in-1". I got a 3-in-1 for me, as neither the pink, nor the amount / key chain thingy appealed to me. Does that mean I'l have to add 230 grains of lead and make it 4-in-1 if I have to use it, or might it be as effective as red?

[Michael Brown]

Okay, been through all 7 pages...twice, and no mention of Sabre 3-in-1 so I'm gonna ask. Packaging says it's Sabre Red, Tear Gas, and dye. Fine. Is it going to be less effective than 100% Red???

The reason I ask is because I got my wife one of the cutesy pink Sabre Red key chain units, and wanted a regular pocket can myself. At Bass Pro, the pink units were the only ones with "Sabre Red" on the package. Every other type of can was "Sabre 3-in-1". I got a 3-in-1 for me, as neither the pink, nor the amount / key chain thingy appealed to me. Does that mean I'l have to add 230 grains of lead and make it 4-in-1 if I have to use it, or might it be as effective as red?

You do not want tear gas, mace or any other aerosol irritant.

You want OC spray. If you choose to go with Sabre brand, you want Sabre Red not 3 in 1.

Tear Gas does not have the same affects in the dosages that can be held in a small can.

You want an OC Spray with at least 1 million Scoville Heat Units (at a minimum) in a configuration that will allow you to carry it the way you want.

Michael Brown

[skyydiver]

And that's what I was afraid of. Very strange that Bass Pro has the red, but only in the tiny keychain cans. Thanks Michael!

[ef9turbo]

Since you're in OKC, go to Special OPS. They should have them in stock, all sizes :thumb:

[V1K1NG0]

I used that Fox Labs 5.3 in 2 oz can (stream and flip top) on a medium sized rottie when I was out on my morning run a months ago and it stopped it from getting any closer. I made one good spray blast on it (about 5 feet) but the rest of the blasts were OFF target. Not sure if the spray was what made him stop or the sight of me dressed in my usual blaze orange running jacket doing a dance while spraying the air with this stuff.

Needless to say the few lessons I learned were that practicing with it once did not do much. I fumbled with getting it out of my jacket pocket and the flip top. You would think that I would have recognized the fact that I should practice with it more as I do my firearm but I didnt. I'm glad it went away and I only got a smidgen of the spray on me, mostly my hand (that sucked). I am definately looking for a better way to carry it so I can have it that way all the time. It would have been nice if it was smaller but in reality I just about dumped the whole contents of the 2oz can.

Dont learn the hard way. This was my wakeup call. Some people dont get them though. Practice Practice Practice

[Mountain Man]

i highly recommend spitfire pepper sprays.

[realamane]

never had any and never been sprayed thankfully

[308shooter]

Being sprayed sucks bad. Trust me

[308shooter]

Don't put lotion on your face before you do either. Or shave makes it hurt worse.

[MiKelly]

any used that kimber spray? saw it at h&h.

[ftcobblake]

I've used many of cans and am a fan. Good stuff just always have plan b, c and d ready in case it doesn't work. I've had great success with it. Sometimes it takes a lil longer that others to start to work but it has not failed me yet.

[scube]

Does Bodyguard still make their Hi-power spray? I used to use that and it worked exceptionally well.

[308shooter]

Get the police issue stuff if you can in a stream. You don't want cone spray always use steam. I think
it's called x2. Or something. It has 1000000000 micromiters of strength. Good hard sticking stuff I've been sprayed by it.

[A.J.]

I did research and found the Fox spray about the hottest on the market. I got the same stuff you carry, JP. When I was certified on OC, being sprayed with it was optional, but I took a hit just to see what I was dealing with. Man, it shuts you down! Your eyes slam shut, and you simply stop breathing for several moments after you're hit. If you're clostrophobic at all, it will really put you in a panic. I used my Fox spray a little over a month ago. I warned the 'ol boy that this stuff really hurts, but he wouldn't listen, and took a kick at a deputy backing me up, so I sprayed him. I tried to catch the wind right, but it still was swirling enough that both me and the deputy got a taste of it. The BG went straight down, and mellowed out IMMEDIATELY. Later he told me he wished I'd just shot him. I got my OC at Galls.

[Michael Brown]

I did research and found the Fox spray about the hottest on the market.

To get an estimate on the heat of a particular product, simply multiply the Scoville Heat Units of your product by the concentration percentage.

i.e. 2 million SHU x .10 = total capsacinoids = how hot the product is.

Fox falls in the top ten hottest formulas but there are several that are significantly hotter.

That said, there is a point of diminishing returns on heat when you are spraying a single individual as opposed to a crowd or relying on indirect contact such as a pepperball gun.

If you are only concerned about contact distance use on an individual, then anything with 1 million SHU and a 5% concentration will be fine with correct use.

That said, if you're buying and you don't have a significant restriction on time or budget, buy the hottest product available.

If you simply have to have something today and need to purchase locally, simply follow the above guidelines.

Michael Brown

[spd67]

I hate pepper spray...every person I have sprayed well over 20 while working as a police officer I have still had to fight after spraying them...I have also been sprayed while fighting with suspects by other officers. Pepper spray should not be used as a substitute for sound good Physical Defensive Tactics. And don't think that once you spray someone they will stop being combative because it is my experience that they will continue to fight. If you are going to carry spray though stay away from the foam it is too easily wiped off before being activated by suspects...you should use a good spray delivered in alcohol as a delivery agent. The alcohol evaporates in seconds and cannot be wiped off as easily as foam.

[Michael Brown]

I personally find OC spray to be an outstanding tool if used properly i.e. as a means of retreat and pre-emptively.

It's not a substitute for training and tactics and it certainly doesn't always take the fight out of folks. In my career I've sprayed or been present for hundreds of OC uses; sometimes it works perfectly and stops aggression right away and sometimes its next to useless but most of the time its somewhere in between.

Most of the problems I've seen with OC have been when it is not used properly i.e. AFTER the fight has begun. For OC spray to work as designed it should be a suprise and done pre-emptively.

Michael Brown

[iriediver]

good god, before we deployed we had to get hit with oc....probably the most evil unfun and effed up few hours of my life.

[Shadowrider]

What's the word on Cold Steel's (yes, the knife maker) Inferno? The videos look very positive, but don't they all?

[Michael Brown]

What's the word on Cold Steel's (yes, the knife maker) Inferno? The videos look very positive, but don't they all?

2 million SHU at 8% capsasin.

It will be a perfectly acceptable product but no better than a great number of others.

Michael Brown

[Shadowrider]

2 million SHU at 8% capsasin.

It will be a perfectly acceptable product but no better than a great number of others.

Michael Brown
Thank you sir. I want to get some for my daughter. That and/or a knife is all she can carry to work and I'm not even positive about the knife. And it's in a bad part of town.

[spd67]

I personally find OC spray to be an outstanding tool if used properly i.e. as a means of retreat and pre-emptively.

It's not a substitute for training and tactics and it certainly doesn't always take the fight out of folks. In my career I've sprayed or been present for hundreds of OC uses; sometimes it works perfectly and stops aggression right away and sometimes its next to useless but most of the time its somewhere in between.

Most of the problems I've seen with OC have been when it is not used properly i.e. AFTER the fight has begun. For OC spray to work as designed it should be a suprise and done pre-emptively.

Michael Brown

I do use it before the fight...and still have to fight....I don't have the option of spray and run like most other people who carry it, I have to go hands on after I spray. I think a tazer is more effective than the spray any day...talk about taking the fight out of someone.

[Michael Brown]

I do use it before the fight...and still have to fight....I don't have the option of spray and run like most other people who carry it, I have to go hands on after I spray. I think a tazer is more effective than the spray any day...talk about taking the fight out of someone.

You have to go hands on no matter what; that's the nature of being a police officer.

No matter what tool you use you have to possess solid skills.

The taser is great but it is being hyped into something it's not.

Contrary to the literature, it is not a CNS inhibitor. It's still pain compliance as much as the manufacturers would like you to believe otherwise.

I took 16 seconds from the prongs of an X26 at the instructor class while bear-hugging another instructor. The instructor with the taser then detached and did a drive stun to my neck to force me to let go.

Most tools can be resisted with intense mental preperation.

The taser is a good tool, just like OC, but is best used pre-emptively like most other tools and doesn't eliminate the need to go hands on.

Michael Brown

[spd67]

i agree totally with what you are saying Michael...and that is why I say no tool should be relied upon as a substitute for good physical fitness and sound defensive / offensive tactics.

[6shooter]

Good idea for my wife

[langston302]

um 8% capsaicinoid does not exist.


pure capsaicin is 10% capsaicinoid. That can burn skin down to the lower skin cells and blister mouth and lungs and permanently blind you.

the top four on the market are:
American Defense (ADR)
BodyGuard (LE-10)
CQB (Level III)
Sabre Red

these are not available on the civilian market as far as I know since the strength is so high.

these four are only 1.25 % capsaicinoid and they are pure hell. CQB is what we carry and I dont care who you are....it will hurt. I took my blast and hated it, felt it for three days

Fox is only .66 % at its strongest