Rangemasters coming soon.

[firing pin]

Tom Givens is coming in January 27 & 28 If you want in. you better call them
to sighn up.

When Men like Michael Brown come,you know it's the best training .

Go to rangemasters.com and sighn up.

Only 14 people will be in the class.

[TRS]

What training is Rangemasters offering? I went to their web site and there was no listing for these dates or a place to sign up.

[TRS]

Did a little more digging an it appears the web site is rangemaster not rangemasters if anybody wants to look it up.

[SoonerBJJ]

I'll second that this is a great class. It is incredibly comprehensive in it's coverage and Tom's lectures are great. I'm still trying to work it into my schedule to take it again. Take this class.

[Michael Brown]

If there were one firearms related class that I would send a person to, it would be this one.

Obviously one needs a more complete defensive package but if I could send my wife to only one instructor, Tom would be the one.

Michael Brown

[pstmstr]

Sounds like a great class, unfortunately it is restricted as indicated on their web site

"Registration for this class is restricted, as students are expected to already be familiar with Rangemaster training doctrine. Applicants MUST be a prior graduate of Rangemaster Combative Pistol Course, or Rangemaster Dynamic Marksmanship Course, or Rangemaster Level V Handgun Course"

I've taken several classes from others but none of these, guess I'm SOL?

[Michael Brown]

I would email Tom first.

He felt my wife was qualified enough to take the class first after having taken my class several times.

Michael Brown

[pstmstr]

I think I will. thanks for the suggestion.

[Tom Givens]

Pstmstr e-mailed me directly and we got him set up. We are happy to review an experienced shooter's prior training and make exceptions to the pre-req's, but we try to avoid having raw newbies hold back the rest of the class.

Mike-- Thank you for that extreme compliment. I look forward to seeing you again next month at WTSIII.

[pstmstr]

thanks Tom, I'll be signing up on your website in a few.

[pstmstr]

I'm signed up. In his email Tom said the class is a little slow in getting registered attendees. Let's get 14 for him so he'll come back and do some other classes as well.

[tacmedic]

I also emailed Tom, who responded promptly, about course eligibility. Long story short my wife and I are signing up!

Is this course held inside the indoor range?

[Cowman]

Yes, indoors.

[firing pin]

Brian Clayton just sighned up.


Lets get some more,this is the best of the best.

[Marshall Luton]

I'm in! Looking forward to training and being a student for once.

[tacmedic]

SWEET Marshall we'll see you there!

[Tom Givens]

Four spaces left in this class, a month away. If you plan to attend, please contact us soon, at 901-370-5600.

This is a nice indoor range and excellent training location. I look forward to seeing everyone soon.

[Thorgrim]

I'm in.:thumb:

[firing pin]

We can handle a few more,please sighn up quickly the class in coming up fast.

[Michael Brown]

Make that 3 spots.:thumb:

Michael Brown

[firing pin]

Michael I have your water in the fridge. Is the Wife coming?

[Michael Brown]

Michael I have your water in the fridge. Is the Wife coming?

Right now it looks like the wife isn't going to make it, but it is possible that it could change.

On another note, could you post the hotel info and phone number here?

Looking forward to it.

Michael Brown

[firing pin]

The Microtel is off the 101 exit on I/40 Number is 405 542 6011

[Michael Brown]

Something for all non-military and LEO's to consider about Rangemaster's instruction:

While many if us that teach personal protection have had students become embroiled in lethal force encounters most are LEO and military. That is definitely the case for me.

Tom, on the other hand, has probably had more non-LEO, non-military students involved in shootings than any other instructor in the U.S. Thus he has an incredible database from which to draw lessons.

You will get a great deal of info from this class. If Tom does the lecture he did at the last class I took from him, it will be worth the price of admission alone.

Michael Brown

[Cowman]

I agree with above. Something a Leo should think about. And should take a class such as this. Because most, I don't think, train drawing from cover. How to handle yourself when you are OFF. With your family. Out and about. I went last year. I am going this year. Good fun. He will push you. But, you will be better.

[RAZZY]

I,m in and have a motel room reserved. Razzy:thumb:

[Tom Givens]

Guys,

The class is this weekend. I'm looking forward to it. The Firing Pin is an excellent training location, and we have a good group signed up.
Please arrive at the FP no later than 8:45 am Saturday. We will start at 9:00 am and go to 6:00 or possibly 7:00 pm Saturday, then til at least 5:00 pm Sunday.
It's really a good idea to bring a second gun, in case your main gun goes down. You'll need 1500 rounds of jacketed ammo.
See you soon.

[Michael Brown]

Besides the fact that Tom Givens is the Dean of firearms instructors and a true gentleman, most folks probably don't know that when the Boogeyman goes to bed, he checks his closet for Tom Givens. :thumb:

Michael Brown

[Robbo]

Outer space exists because it's afraid to be on the same planet with Tom Givens.

Rob

[TulsaDave]

There is no evolution...only a list of creatures Tom Givens allows to live.

[SoonerBJJ]

I had the opportunity to train with Tom again this weekend at WTS III and was reminded of why CP2 is such an important training experience. I took this course in April 2006 and have really wished that I could make it to Hinton to take it again. The shooting instruction is incredibly comprehensive and is of the highest caliber you will find, but what really makes the course are Tom's insights. As others have said, Tom has a rather unique vantage point as an instructor and has an excellent command of the existing data and experience of civilian and law enforcement shootings. Additionally the low light session is, without a doubt, the best treatment of the subject I've heard or read. Tom will address and debunk many of the prevalent myths surrounding low light shooting. If you can swing it, don't miss this opportunity.

BTW, not to hijack the thread, but I also got to train with Mike Brown, Brandon and the boys in Memphis. Another awesome experience. You need both these types of training. Go see Tom this weekend then head to Tulsa to see Mike.

[Michael Brown]

News Flash:

Tom Givens has just received an injunction against NBC to cease using the title "Law and Order" in deference to his left and right fists.

Michael Brown

[Tom Givens]

Mike,

It's going to be a long weekend.

BTW, is your Glock loaded?

[Thorgrim]

You guys kill me!

[TulsaDave]

Guns don't kill people. Tom Givens kills people.

[Michael Brown]

Mike,

It's going to be a long weekend.

BTW, is your Glock loaded?

It is loaded so you'll have to be VERY careful.

If you can see Tom Givens, he can see you. If you can't see Tom Givens you may be only fractions of a second away from death.

Michael Brown

[Robbo]

How far of a drive is it from Tulsa to the Firing Pin? Would I be able to make it over Saturday morning?

Rob

[Michael Brown]

How far of a drive is it from Tulsa to the Firing Pin? Would I be able to make it over Saturday morning?

Rob


Leave about two hours. I did it last year and we're leaving from Stillwater that morning as well.

Do it.

I heard Tom Givens' tears cure cancer. Unfortunately he's never cried.

Michael Brown

[Cowman]

Better give yourself 3 hours. Mr. Brown was late last year.

[Thorgrim]

I thought only Chuck Norris could cure cancer with his tears. If Tom Givens never cried he surely is a dangerous man. I would almost pity what he would do if he ran in to some terrorists who were shouting Muhammed Jihad Dirka Dirka. Almost...nah lets sell tickets!:thumb:

[Michael Brown]

Better give yourself 3 hours. Mr. Brown was late last year.

That was because one of you OKC people had to run into a bridge on I40 and OHP shut it down for several miles.

I didn't know my way around OKC so I bumbled around until I found an open onramp.

Two hours is probably enough under normal conditions but leaving three would probably be well prepared.

Michael Brown

[Robbo]

Got the ok from the wife - Check
Called Tom Givens and paid - Check
Made arrangements for hotel on Sat. - Check

Got to pack my gear now. I'll be driving up Saturday morning. I'll play it safe and give myself 3hrs.

See everyone there.

Rob

[Thorgrim]

I wanted to be the first to post that the CP2 class was kick ass! I had alot of fun and learned a ton of excellant info. I highly recommend Tom Givens as an instructor.:thumb: I would also like to thank Tom from the Firing Pin for hosting the class.:thumb:...:gun1: dirka dirka.

[Tom Givens]

Great class, because of the quality of the 16 students who showed up and worked hard and enthusiastically all weekend. Usually in a class of that size there are one or two who shouldn't be there, but that was certainly not the case this time. Excellent shooting and lots of progress on mental issues and overall defensive ability. Thanks, Guys and Girls.

[Michael Brown]

I will try to review the class as best I can recall:

Day 1: 16 students. Among them there appeared to be three LEO's and all students had at least one prior 2 day training course. this made the class move at a fairly rapid pace.

Interestingly, 13 students shot Glocks. Two shot Sigs and one I don't recall.

We began with a brief safety lecture covering range protocol and the four rules.

Tom ran a hot range, which I believe to be infinitely safer for this type of class than the common cold range concepts so popular with other ranges and trainers.

We began with a Rangemaster qualification course to see where everyone was in terms of competence.

We began with the presentation and worked it dry in a three count fashion, working up to doing from concealed. Then we worked it live against an IALEFI Q target at various ranges. Throughout this portion, Tom offered rationale for why he uses the techniques he does.

Shortly thereafter we began work against the infamous dot targets. We worked single shots, strings, strong, and weak hand. Dots are one of the most underrated tools in improving trigger control.

Shortly thereafter we began working on reloading intersperesed with the dots. Tom emphasized why he prefers keeping his reloads to two techniques, speed reloads and emergency reloads. I completely agreed with his rationale for eliminating the tactical reload from his repertoire and it was interesting to hear how the tac load became part of Gunsite (API) doctrine and how it has been interpreted modern day.

After lunch we returned to the dots however now they were reduced in diameter by an inch or two to try to get everyone's trigger control up to Rangemaster standards.

Then we changed focus and moved on to shooting discrimination drills with David Blinder's PDT target. Tom would call out various targets and you had to make quick, accurate hits.

We then shot another qualification course to see how folks had improved. Needless to say, after a lot of dot work, everyone was pleased.

We then moved to the classroom for to view a couple of scenario videos and receive Tom's justly famous H.U.A. lecture. If you haven't been there, its worth the price of admission. It certainly was for my wife, who badly needed to hear this lecture from someone other than me.

Tom used Kyle Dinkheller's murder and Lance Thomas' multiple defenses of his life as quality examples of polar opposites in mindset that I felt was invaluable for the class. A lot of folks talk about mindset but few have the ability to cultivate it.

Tom then presented his color codes lecture (via video) which was an improvement on the explanation by the late Jeff Cooper. I have heard numerous people explain this concept over the years but have not heard anyone do it as well as Tom Givens.

After the lecture was finished we moved back to the range for nightfire.

Once again, Tom sifted through a lot of B.S. technique i.e. the Harries, Surefire, etc. and distilled it down to having a light in your hand or not having a light in your hand.

His doctrine was if you have a light in your hand, shoot neck index. If you don't use your standard grip. Tom provided some food for thought in terms of ambient light in various environments.

After low light, we concluded and hit dinner at one of Hinton's hot spots, the El charro restaurant. I have found that meal breaks are one of the best times to pick instructors' brains and exchange information as I generally feel that class time should be reserved for work not discussion.

The next day we opened with dot work again to try to keep everyone sharp.

Tom then began adding the lateral sidestep to our presentations and shooting. The lateral sidestep is staple of true defensive shooting and needs to be ingrained into your presentation.

Tom, his assistant John Hearne, and I had a great discussion about the lateral sidestep during lunch on the first day and Tom seems to be in agreement that the reason we don't see this being more effective in FOF is that most role players have some idea of what is about to transpire. In the real world, if a bad guy has any idea that you'll move or resist, he'll generally choose another target. Thus we see the lateral sidestep as effective in the real world but less effective in FOF scenarios. Food for thought.

Shortly after we began working on various ready positions and Tom again gave quality explanations of why he prefers certain techniques over others.

This was the only area where I think there was some disagreement among the class members.

Some favored high ready positions which Tom vehemently disagreed with due to the tendency to fire the first shot low under stress.

Tom also didn't care for what he called "Air Marshall" ready which is the technique taught at a number of schools these days, also know as compressed ready, two hand retention, or the three position.

Tom's rationale was that this ready position violates rule #2 and while I can't disagree with that, I'm not sure its as much of an issue since when most folks take a ready position, they're minutely close to needing to shoot.

Personally I used a variation on the theme of the "Air Marshall" ready with the muzzle canted down. I guess you could also say this would simply be a version of Tom's preferred low ready position with the arms a bit more relaxed.

I have used this position as a police officer more times than I'd care to imagine and prefer it because its not as fatiguing as low ready but shares its advantage of not pointing the gun directly at someone and being able to see the hands well. For a private citizen this may not be as much of a concern as they are not interested in taking anyone into custody, but for a police officer its something one has to consider.

Six one way, half dozen the other. Either way one of the things I most appreciate about Tom is that he causes you to question what you do and in my opinion, that is one of the most valuable things an instructor can do for a student.

After lunch we worked alternate shooting positions and working from cover. As usual, Tom had great explanations for why he does what he does, but from there it was up to the student.

We then worked on the three common types of malfunctions, 1, 2 and stovepipe. Tom discussed his methods and gave some other good examples that most had not considered as causes for your pistol to malfunction.

After working the clearences in a static fashion, we worked them in a more active manner with drills involving movement and shooting. Everyone got real jacked up during this exercise and I believe it was one of the more popular drills of the class.

We then shot a Rangemaster qualification course for score. Tom seemed quite pleased with the groups' scores and so we moved on.

We then worked some short timed drills that you had to pass in order to get your certificate, which involved movement, malfunction clearing, and reloading in addition to fast, accurate shooting.

We then shot the FBI Firearms Instructor qualification course for score. Two different perspectives on this: two students shot 100% on this course which very few FBI instructors do; downside, FBI's firearms training is pretty poor if at least half of their candidates don't shoot 100% on this course.

I think Tom agreed with this.

We went back to the PDT target for more discrimination drills at a more ramped up pace.

We finished up with training to draw from seated in a vehicle. In general, trainers make this too simple; i.e. draw like you normally draw or too hard; i.e. 3 to 6 to 9 over the steering wheel.

Tom uses a simple method that is slightly different from his standard draw, the way it needs to be.

Overall, I would rate this course as outstanding.

As I have said before, if there were one shooting course I'd send my wife to, it would be Tom's.

That's why she was there with me this time.:wink2:

And in case you were wondering, she was one of the two students who shot 100% on the FBI Firearms Instructor course.:bowdown:

Michael Brown

[Michael Brown]

I will try to review the class as best I can recall:

Day 1: 16 students. Among them there appeared to be three LEO's and all students had at least one prior 2 day training course. this made the class move at a fairly rapid pace.

Interestingly, 13 students shot Glocks. Two shot Sigs and one I don't recall.

We began with a brief safety lecture covering range protocol and the four rules.

Tom ran a hot range, which I believe to be infinitely safer for this type of class than the common cold range concepts so popular with other ranges and trainers.

We began with a Rangemaster qualification course to see where everyone was in terms of competence.

We began with the presentation and worked it dry in a three count fashion, working up to doing from concealed. Then we worked it live against an IALEFI Q target at various ranges. Throughout this portion, Tom offered rationale for why he uses the techniques he does.

Shortly thereafter we began work against the infamous dot targets. We worked single shots, strings, strong, and weak hand. Dots are one of the most underrated tools in improving trigger control.

Shortly thereafter we began working on reloading intersperesed with the dots. Tom emphasized why he prefers keeping his reloads to two techniques, speed reloads and emergency reloads. I completely agreed with his rationale for eliminating the tactical reload from his repertoire and it was interesting to hear how the tac load became part of Gunsite (API) doctrine and how it has been interpreted modern day.

After lunch we returned to the dots however now they were reduced in diameter by an inch or two to try to get everyone's trigger control up to Rangemaster standards.

Then we changed focus and moved on to shooting discrimination drills with David Blinder's PDT target. Tom would call out various targets and you had to make quick, accurate hits.

We then shot another qualification course to see how folks had improved. Needless to say, after a lot of dot work, everyone was pleased.

We then moved to the classroom for to view a couple of scenario videos and receive Tom's justly famous H.U.A. lecture. If you haven't been there, its worth the price of admission. It certainly was for my wife, who badly needed to hear this lecture from someone other than me.

Tom used Kyle Dinkheller's murder and Lance Thomas' multiple defenses of his life as quality examples of polar opposites in mindset that I felt was invaluable for the class. A lot of folks talk about mindset but few have the ability to cultivate it.

Tom then presented his color codes lecture (via video) which was an improvement on the explanation by the late Jeff Cooper. I have heard numerous people explain this concept over the years but have not heard anyone do it as well as Tom Givens.

After the lecture was finished we moved back to the range for nightfire.

Once again, Tom sifted through a lot of B.S. technique i.e. the Harries, Surefire, etc. and distilled it down to having a light in your hand or not having a light in your hand.

His doctrine was if you have a light in your hand, shoot neck index. If you don't use your standard grip. Tom provided some food for thought in terms of ambient light in various environments.

After low light, we concluded and hit dinner at one of Hinton's hot spots, the El charro restaurant. I have found that meal breaks are one of the best times to pick instructors' brains and exchange information as I generally feel that class time should be reserved for work not discussion.

The next day we opened with dot work again to try to keep everyone sharp.

Tom then began adding the lateral sidestep to our presentations and shooting. The lateral sidestep is staple of true defensive shooting and needs to be ingrained into your presentation.

Tom, his assistant John Hearne, and I had a great discussion about the lateral sidestep during lunch on the first day and Tom seems to be in agreement that the reason we don't see this being more effective in FOF is that most role players have some idea of what is about to transpire. In the real world, if a bad guy has any idea that you'll move or resist, he'll generally choose another target. Thus we see the lateral sidestep as effective in the real world but less effective in FOF scenarios. Food for thought.

Shortly after we began working on various ready positions and Tom again gave quality explanations of why he prefers certain techniques over others.

This was the only area where I think there was some disagreement among the class members.

Some favored high ready positions which Tom vehemently disagreed with due to the tendency to fire the first shot low under stress.

Tom also didn't care for what he called "Air Marshall" ready which is the technique taught at a number of schools these days, also know as compressed ready, two hand retention, or the three position.

Tom's rationale was that this ready position violates rule #2 and while I can't disagree with that, I'm not sure its as much of an issue since when most folks take a ready position, they're minutely close to needing to shoot.

Personally I used a variation on the theme of the "Air Marshall" ready with the muzzle canted down. I guess you could also say this would simply be a version of Tom's preferred low ready position with the arms a bit more relaxed.

I have used this position as a police officer more times than I'd care to imagine and prefer it because its not as fatiguing as low ready but shares its advantage of not pointing the gun directly at someone and being able to see the hands well. For a private citizen this may not be as much of a concern as they are not interested in taking anyone into custody, but for a police officer its something one has to consider.

Six one way, half dozen the other. Either way one of the things I most appreciate about Tom is that he causes you to question what you do and in my opinion, that is one of the most valuable things an instructor can do for a student.

After lunch we worked alternate shooting positions and working from cover. As usual, Tom had great explanations for why he does what he does, but from there it was up to the student.

We then worked on the three common types of malfunctions, 1, 2 and stovepipe. Tom discussed his methods and gave some other good examples that most had not considered as causes for your pistol to malfunction.

After working the clearences in a static fashion, we worked them in a more active manner with drills involving movement and shooting. Everyone got real jacked up during this exercise and I believe it was one of the more popular drills of the class.

We then shot a Rangemaster qualification course for score. Tom seemed quite pleased with the groups' scores and so we moved on.

We then worked some short timed drills that you had to pass in order to get your certificate, which involved movement, malfunction clearing, and reloading in addition to fast, accurate shooting.

We then shot the FBI Firearms Instructor qualification course for score. Two different perspectives on this: two students shot 100% on this course which very few FBI instructors do; downside, FBI's firearms training is pretty poor if at least half of their candidates don't shoot 100% on this course.

I think Tom agreed with this.

We went back to the PDT target for more discrimination drills at a more ramped up pace.

We finished up with training to draw from seated in a vehicle. In general, trainers make this too simple; i.e. draw like you normally draw or too hard; i.e. 3 to 6 to 9 over the steering wheel.

Tom uses a simple method that is slightly different from his standard draw, the way it needs to be.

Overall, I would rate this course as outstanding.

As I have said before, if there were one shooting course I'd send my wife to, it would be Tom's.

That's why she was there with me this time.:wink2:

And in case you were wondering, she was one of the two students who shot 100% on the FBI Firearms Instructor course.:bowdown:

Michael Brown

[firing pin]

IF YOU EVER HAD A DREAM ABOUT TRAINING WITH A GOOD GROUP.

IT CAME TRUE WITH THIS BUNCH.

ALL VERY PROFESSIONAL.

THANKS TO ALL THAT CAME TO TO CLASS


TOM AT thefiringpin

[Cowman]

Great review Mr. Brown. This was the first class I have been too. That there was not a 1911. The other pistol was a S&W M&P. As I have pondered on Mr. Givens instruction. It is beautifuly simple but, effective. I thought about all the mag changes we made. Great practice. After a while you don't have too look. No dithering. Great stuff. I had one or two bad habits corrected. Well worth the time and money. And I brought home a good dawg. She is doing great.

[tacmedic]

Mike pretty much covered it but I just want to say...The class was outstanding!!! My wife and I really had fun and wanted to say thank you to Tom for allowing us to attend. I can assure you we will be seeking out future opportunities to train with Tom! I am especially greatful for Tom and his ability to convince my wife that she needs to carry her gun all the time. She is definitely sharpening her mental/psychological skills now.

We also wanted to say thank you to all our classmates for their professionalism and safety. What a great bunch of folks, we sure hope to have the chance to train with you again in the future.

A BIG thanks Marshall and all the instructors at TDSA for teaching us how to shoot. This was NOT a class for a beginner, we would have been very intimidated and looked a fool at this course without taking TDSA's AP courses.

And thanks Mike Brown and Brandon Bennet for making their CQT course available to us. Having taken this class helped us to understand and truely appreciate some of the tactics and reasoning behind what Tom teaches.

We are so blessed to live somewhere that we have the opportunity to train with all of these amazing instructors. We can't recommend them highly enough.

THANKS TO TOM FOR HOSTING THE CLASS AT HIS RANGE THE FIRING PIN! We'll be back sometime to shoot bowling pins and that Glock 18!!!

[pstmstr]

I enjoyed the glass, learned a lot, and would recommend it to anyone. I'll go again if he comes back. Good review Mike and it was good to meet you.

[Robbo]

Mike's review was excellent. I can't add anything to that. Just wanted to say thank you to Tom Givens, John and to the Firing Pin for hosting the class. I very much want my wife to attend Tom's level I class in the near future.

:thumb:
Rob

[Glock 'em down]

I completely agreed with his rationale for eliminating the tactical reload from his repertoire and it was interesting to hear how the tac load became part of Gunsite (API) doctrine and how it has been interpreted modern day.


Hey Mike, I'm curious...why doesn't he teach tactical reload any more? I personally think IF you get a "break in the action" that you should do a tactical reload whether you have fired 2 shots or 12.

The old saying "I'd rather have too much than not enough" comes to mind.

What's his reasoning for this?

[J.P.]

Hey Mike, I'm curious...why doesn't he teach tactical reload any more? I personally think IF you get a "break in the action" that you should do a tactical reload whether you have fired 2 shots or 12.

The old saying "I'd rather have too much than not enough" comes to mind.

What's his reasoning for this?

*IF* you get a break inthe action,it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
otherwise completely useless outside the competition field,IMO.

[Glock 'em down]

*IF* you get a break inthe action,it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
otherwise completely useless outside the competition field,IMO.

You would be surprised at the people that carry a gun on their hip that have never even heard of a tactical re-load, let alone know how to perform one! :faint:

It goes back to never "ASSUME" Because it makes an ASS out of U and ME

[Michael Brown]

Hey Mike, I'm curious...why doesn't he teach tactical reload any more? I personally think IF you get a "break in the action" that you should do a tactical reload whether you have fired 2 shots or 12.

The old saying "I'd rather have too much than not enough" comes to mind.

What's his reasoning for this?

First let's define terms so that everyone is speaking the same language:

Emergency Re-Load: Your gun is completely empty and you must get more ammunition in.

Speed Re-Load: You are at a lull in the action so you first obtain a full magazine from your pouch, then jettison the partially depleted mag, immediately loading the full mag into the gun.

Tactical Re-Load: You are at a lull in the action so you first obtaina full mag from your pouch, then in some fashion you exchange magazines at the gun, retaining the partially spent magazine and eventually stowing it.

The rationale for not doing the Tactical Re-Load is that in order to exchange and retain at the gun, you really have to fiddlefart around to get it done. Under stress it would be most difficult.

Unless you are in a military situation where you might not get mags or ammo if you lose the one you jettisoned, it makes more sense to do the Speed Re-Load and get the gun full as quickly and expeditiously as possible.

Tom stated that he has no been able to find a documented case where a police officer or private citizen has ever done a tactical reload and then needed the stowed rounds. Since this is the rationale for the tactical reload, it seems to be time ill-spent in training instead of simply speed-loading.

I agree with that rationale.

Michael Brown

[Glock 'em down]

Thanks.

[Cowman]

If I remember correct. Tom stated. That the reload in ? came out of Gunsite. The gravel on the ranges there, in the early days. Were tearing up the mags of 1911's. As we know 1911's were about the only auto's of that time. Hence the reload. The gun mags and writer's took it and ran with it. It morped into what most think of it today. The main thing I got out of the class. That in gunfighting, keep it simple. Don't get caught up in all the fads. You really don't need night sights. You really don't need a light rail on your weapon. You really need a reliable, simple weapon that you have handled enough and drawn enough to know where your front sight will be every time. Even with your eyes closed. Dry firing is your best friend. Regards

[RAZZY]

Just thought I would throw my two cents in. Great class, learned some new things and reinforced other gunfinghting techniques. I always enjoy the lectures and Tom's was excellent. I find it important to here and learn from men that have been there. Mike's overview was good and I would agree. Low ready: I don't care for it I want to keep my firearm in close to the body. I have a hand injury issue and do not wish to give my Glock to anyone. Tac reloads: except for IDPA games I see no reason for doing it. Speed roloads (not allowed in IDPA) and emergency reloads should cover most gun fights. From training and becoming a student of gun fighting I think there are great misconceptions on the subject (TV and movies are not real gun fights). Fights are close, fast and ugly. Razzy