Trust or LLC in OK?

[1911user]

For NFA items, which would be better and/or easier to setup in OK? Do OK LLCs have yearly taxes or fees if used only for non-commercial NFA purchases? What happens to a trust/LLC if I move to another NFA-legal state?

[RobC]

Best question asked on this forum in weeks!! I want to know too!!

[Robbo]

The trust is the easiest to set up. Plus there's no yearly maintenance on it. Just set it up and you're done, and the only cost is however you set it up (Yourself, Attorney, Computer Program). Easiest way to me, was to go buy Quicken Willmaker Pro. It will walk you through the process and took me all of 1 hour to fill it out, go down and get all my ssn., print and run have it notarized at my bank (that might be one other cost is your bank doesn't do it for free). NFA forms were taking ~33 days from mailbox to mailbox for me when I did mine using my trust (late summer).

There's a thread below long enough to read until your eyes blur. I think the quote from Willmaker is on pg. 25 stating that your trust is still valid when you move... you just have to check on the new states rules (some states require trusts to be registered to be valid).

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942

Hope that helps.

Rob

[firing pin]

I Think the best way is to just pay the $200. Dollor tax stamp.

It's one time per NFA

[RobC]

We were talking about forming a corporation or trust to bypass the leo signoff, fingerprints, and passport photos. Not to mention to have the added benefit of being able to name others as either company executives or in the case of the trust, executors, and be able to let them have possession of the device. Makes it more versitile if I want to let my dad borrow my .22 can for squirrel season.

Not looking to become dealers or manufacturers. The $200 stamp still applies to trusts and LLCs.


Rob

[1911user]

I Think the best way is to just pay the $200. Dollor tax stamp.

It's one time per NFA

The $200 tax stamp for each NFA transfer is a given unless it is a dealer to dealer transfer. The difference between doing it as an individual, trust, or LLC is who (and how many) can have legal access to the NFA item, startup and (sometimes) yearly costs.

If I buy an NFA item as an individual, no one else may legally possess it unless I'm present. That means it has to be locked up at home in such a way that only I have access to it. It's big-time fed trouble to be caught in violation. Picture, prints, and local LEO-signoff are also required. This is the commonly known technique where local LEO can make people jump through legal hoops or just refuse to cooperate at all. Some less thoughtful states also prevent indivual NFA ownership, but corporate ownership is fine.

A legal trust can purchase an NFA item then 1 or 2 people have legal access. No picture, prints, or LEO-signoff are required. This is attractive since there are no yearly fees or tax returns to file.

The next step up is a LLC (limited liability corp.) where multiple people can have legal access but there are startup costs and maybe yearly fees and/or tax returns to file. Again, no pictures, prints, or LEO-signoff needed for any member of the LLC.

[skyydiver]

Wow. This is VERY interesting. I have always thought of cans and other NFA items as cost-prohibitive for me. But this info will be nice to have when the proverbial ship comes in.

I had no idea that a trust could bypass all that red tape crap.

[RobC]

The only tape it bypasses is the fingerprinting, photos, and leo signoff. For me that process last took about 10 minutes. Still have to do the form 4s. Still have to mail the check to the feds. In reality, lately the time for individual transfers has dropped to almost that of corporate transfers. My last suppressor took about three months, I hope this one is back before Christmas.

Getting the leo signoff here has not been a big deal at all. Biggest reason that I am interested is to be able to share my stuff with my dad, brother, friends.

Most NFA stuff is very cost prohibitive. Suppressors on the other hand are really no more expensive than decent firearms.

[FAL guy]

Makes it more versitile if I want to let my dad borrow my .22 can for squirrel season.

Uh...You can't use a suppressor to hunt with in Oklahoma.

[brennan]

What about predator hunting.

[RobC]

Uh...You can't use a suppressor to hunt with in Oklahoma.


My dad lives and hunts in arkansas, perfectly legal to hunt with suppressors there.

Out of curiosity, does Oklahoma specifically prohibit hunting with a suppressed weapon or do they simply not say that it is legal? Do they make reference to it at all? I have never cared to look into hunting laws in Oklahoma.

[1911user]

I forget the few exceptions, but OK specifically states no suppressors for most hunting.

[RobC]

That's a shame, though I have never done it, it seems like it would be more fun. I wonder what the rationale is? Probably like most laws and not based in logic.

[1911user]

Direct quote from OK hunting regs:

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/huntregs.htm

Silencers may not be used to hunt game animals, game or nongame birds.

[ok_patriot]

I have an LLC, and it is setup as a one member pass through. In other words the taxes are still paseed on to me individual when I make profit.

Set up is 100.00 to Oklahoma Secretary of State. You can down load the from and print it. Then type the from and mail it in with a check for 100.00

Then call and get a Federal I.D. It took me less than 2 weeks. Now I haven't done anything in the nature of NFA regs, mine is for oil and gas business.

[Tulsa Shooter]

Trust is the absolute easiest, NO FEES, no maintenance. Quicken willmaker+5-10 minutes, print all documents out, then get your main trust document(1 page) notorized and your trust is made. Send two copies of the notorized document in with your form 4, it does not get any easier than that.

[RobC]

I really think that my next transfers are going on a trust. I have about three that I want to do in January and I would rather not have to do six pages of CLEO signoffs and mugshots.

[MAS GunWorks]

A few things you need to remember about NFA items. If they are registered to you and you are married or have children over 21 and they have access to your safe or where you store your NFA items then you need to have them listed as being able to possess or use your NFA items. If not, you have to store them in a separate safe or where they can't get to them. Someone on the AR15 board was talking about this several weeks ago.

A trust is the easiest and cheapest.

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

The LLC or Corp has benefits sometimes. But generally the yearly administrative costs outweigh the benefits.

We were talking about forming a corporation or trust to bypass the leo signoff, fingerprints, and passport photos. Not to mention to have the added benefit of being able to name others as either company executives or in the case of the trust, executors, and be able to let them have possession of the device. Makes it more versitile if I want to let my dad borrow my .22 can for squirrel season.

Not looking to become dealers or manufacturers. The $200 stamp still applies to trusts and LLCs.


Rob

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Often the cost of creating a corporation of LLC is lower. Although a single member llc can be pass through, there can still be adminiatrative costs associated with the entity. A trust on the other hand does not usually have additional costs associated with it.

I have had many people who want to put other assets in the trust or company. Generally this is not a good idea because of the risk associated with the ownership of class 3 items.

There are some articles out there that state that you can send in the certificate of trust with the Form 4 application. The ATF will no longer accept this and a full declaration of trust must be included (http://www.floridaestateplanninglawyerblog.com/2008/03/nfa_trusts_certificate_of_trus.html) with the Form 4.

A business entity will have the same problems as individual ownership or using a generic trust.

You may want to review some of the articles on NFA Specific Trusts (http://www.floridaestateplanninglawyerblog.com/2008/01/nfa_trust_and_purchase_of_clas.html).

I have an LLC, and it is setup as a one member pass through. In other words the taxes are still paseed on to me individual when I make profit.

Set up is 100.00 to Oklahoma Secretary of State. You can down load the from and print it. Then type the from and mail it in with a check for 100.00

Then call and get a Federal I.D. It took me less than 2 weeks. Now I haven't done anything in the nature of NFA regs, mine is for oil and gas business.

[RobC]

I ended up going with a trust.

[dustingaunder]

If you have a trust, how do you make it so your wife/kids/dad can possess your NFA item?

[Josh-L]

You list them as the successor trustee's. Your kids can't get it though unless they are 21 of course.

[Mitch Rapp]

Direct quote from OK hunting regs:

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/huntregs.htm

Silencers may not be used to hunt game animals, game or nongame birds.

Coyotes are not considered game animals are they? Kinda like some fish are not game-fish, so you can bow-fish for them?