Sheriff Whetsel and my new M16

[WetWork]

Good news. I just found out the m16 I ordered will be in my dealers hands tomorow.

This meens its time to make my appointment to go visit the Sheriff.

Not wanting to screw this process up, I have some questions.

1: Who do I contact to make the appointment? and What should I say?

2: Do I need to bring anything other than the forms and photos? Will I need to supply the fingerprint cards?

3: Is the Sheriff going to interview me or just sign the papers?

4: Will there be a problem with getting multiple forms signed? I also bought a 14 inch Benelli M1 SBS and want to register my 10/22 as an SBR.


Or anything else I may need to know. Or questoins I need to be prepared to answer.

[RobC]

I would shoot the sheriff an email explaining what you want to do and the process involved. Then ask him if he is willing to sign the form. He may or may not have you jump through some hoops. If all is well and he does not request anything of you, just take the completed forms to his office and get them signed. I have never had any trouble with the chief of police in stillwater. The first time that I asked, he did his own background check but signed the form the same day and I was in and out in less than 15 minutes.

If the sheriff says no, or wants you to go through some unusual BS to get the form signed, just set up a Trust or LLC. Even though I have never had trouble with CLEOs signing Form 4s, I am going to go trust from here on out....I have a Form 1 ready if I can ever get around to finishing my trust.

Your dealer should provide the FP cards...mine always has. If not, I'm pretty sure that the ATF will take the cards that your sheriff's department uses...as long as it has the same information.

You can take as many forms for him to sign as you want...just realize how much more work you will be making him do (two forms for every transfer).


The chief here has given me only a very cursory interview. The first time he signed my forms, he asked me what I wanted it for. He did not ask a thing during my second transfer.

[WetWork]

I would shoot him an email explaining what you want to do and the process involved. Then ask him if he is willing to sign the form. He may or may not have you jump through some hoops. If all is well and he does not request anything of you, just take the completed forms to his office and get them signed. I have never had any trouble with the chief of police in stillwater. The first time that I asked, he did his own background check but signed the form the same day and I was in and out in less than 15 minutes.

If the sheriff says no, or wants you to go through some unusual BS to get the form signed, just set up a Trust or LLC. Even though I have never had trouble with CLEOs signing Form 4s, I am going to go trust from here on out....I have a Form 1 ready if I can ever get around to finishing my trust.


Thanks for the info.

I'm told Whetsel signs forms on a regular basis. I'm not quite sure what hoops I'll need to jump through. I was trying to avoid the Trust/LLC if I could. My attorney wants $1500 for that.

[RobC]

A copy of quicken willmaker cost me about fifty bucks. It has been used for this a number of times by some of the folks at silencertests. No problems reported. That's how I plan to do my next transfer.


Really, I should finish that tonight.

[DrBaker]

Thanks for the info.

I'm told Whetsel signs forms on a regular basis. I'm not quite sure what hoops I'll need to jump through. I was trying to avoid the Trust/LLC if I could. My attorney wants $1500 for that.

I'll make your trust for $0.50 and some jaw breakers or $1 and some envelopes. :)

Seriously, if the sheriff sign off doesn't go quick and smooth I'll help you get a trust started so you can get the transfer done. Then when you are ready, pay your attorney to get the trust modified to properly cover everything non-nfa related.

[CAR-AR-M16]

Make sure the ORI block on the fingerprint cards has:

WVATF0800
ATF-NFA BRANCH
MARTINSBURG, WV

[bulbboy]

I would shoot the sheriff


Probably not a good idea...




:) :)

[MDT]

Quick question...not trying to jack the thread, but I have a Trust already, set up as a Living Trust. All assets are in this. Is this a vehicle in which I could pursue class III items?

Thanks in advance...

[RobC]

Yes it is, you can use a revocable living trust. Though personally, I wanted a separate trust for my NFA stuff.

[MAS GunWorks]

If you want to set up a trust let me know and all I ask in return is a chance to shoot your M-16. I will supply my own amo.

It only takes about 5 minutes to setup a trust in Oklahoma. You fill in the blank and sign it in front of a notary. I am one of those as well.

I don't see any problems with the sheriff though. I don't have any problems getting mine signed but decided to go the trust route. A lot easier and I don't have to take photos, fingerprints or get any signatures.

[WetWork]

My only concern with Trust/llc is the ATF's track history with changing its mind( http://www.firefaster.com ). OK today not OK tomorow. DrBaker got his can in less than 30 days. Although this is tempting, I've got 12 g's riding on this one.

If I got to jump through some hoops, give prints and photo's and talk to the sheriff for a bit (so be it) to secure my investment.

I don't doubt for a second that a trust works (for now). I just worry about what would happen when the ATF realizes Trusts are just to easy.

[CAR-AR-M16]

I think trusts are good if you can't get a CLEO signoff. Where I live it that is not a problem, so I haven't gone the trust route. The fingerprints take 10 minutes, passport photos at Walgreen's takes about the same. I just sent two form 4's off and had them back in 27 days, so trusts really aren't any faster in my experience. YMMV

[RobC]

Going the trust route does not have the same advantage that it had even six months back. Transfers are getting shorter and shorter. However, I like the idea of not having to go to the trouble of getting the sign offs and fingerprints. To me it is like not having to ask permission of the local cops to own an inanimate object. You still have to bribe the ATF into to letting you own an inanimate object. The less governmental BS the better as far as I am concerned.

As for the ATF changing their minds on a daily basis, the trust thing has been around since the beginning and has in the past few years gained acceptance as it has been discovered by the NFA crowd. I would hazard that thousands of devices have been transfered to trusts. The ATF would piss off lots and lots of people if they suddenly said that trusts were no longer acceptable. If they did, I could see them grandfathering the existing stamps that are registered to trusts. The Akins thing was questionable from the beginning and I'm not in the least bit surprised that they changed their minds. In the end, I don't think that a questionable device that was only available for a couple of months and sold to relatively few people could be compared to using a trust.

This is not to say that the ATF won't surprise me and halt trust transfers. They never cease to amaze me. I would just not be worried about trust transfers. You have to remember that they still get their two hundred bucks from you every time you buy or sell something. Why stop a good thing?

[Stoverarms]

No problems with Sheriff Whetsel on getting a sign off! You may have to leave them there /may not; dedends on how his work load is. You can get your finger prints done there also. As Car-AR-M16 stated, not much of a hassle to getting a sign off, pics, and prints. Just go do it. Multi forms OK. Send them all together with (2) set of prints, (1) certifcation of Compliance, and (2) pic's for every form. Would not suprise me to see BATFE make changes to the Trust route.

[RobC]

It has never been a hassle to get a sign off and I have never had a problem with the local CLEO.

I still have a problem with it based on principle.

[Chuck S]

It has never been a hassle to get a sign off and I have never had a problem with the local CLEO.

I still have a problem with it based on principle.

For this reason I bought the Quicken Willmaker today. Gonna get into the NFA game. Gonna be looking for a can for an AR first. I have no idea how Sheriff Stradley in Comanche County sees this.

[CAR-AR-M16]

For this reason I bought the Quicken Willmaker today. Gonna get into the NFA game. Gonna be looking for a can for an AR first. I have no idea how Sheriff Stradley in Comanche County sees this.

I have a friend near Cache who has had Stradley sign for 3 MG's, 2 Suppressors and 1 AOW. It was many years ago when he bought these so I don't know how he is now.

If we can arrange some time to get together I will let you try my AAC M4-2000. I think it is the best can around for the AR.

[Chuck S]

I have a friend near Cache who has had Stradley sign for 3 MG's, 2 Suppressors and 1 AOW. It was many years ago when he bought these so I don't know how he is now.

If we can arrange some time to get together I will let you try my AAC M4-2000. I think it is the best can around for the AR.

If you dont mind my asking, what does that one go for?

[CAR-AR-M16]

If you dont mind my asking, what does that one go for?

AAC M4-2000 retails for $895.00. It has Inconel baffles and is rated for full-auto use. If you are going semi-auto only, you might look at the AAC M4-1000. It has 304 Stainless Steel baffles and retails for $550.00. You should be able to get either one below retail. I bought my M4-2000 for $475 from a dealer who had used it as a demo model and was getting out of the business.

[DrBaker]

For those who are wondering about the signoff process in Oklahoma County.....

Go to the downtown jail and visit the lady (secretary) on the bottom floor. No appointment or call ahead needed. She will take your prints and info for the background check they do. Fees are about $11. You leave your forms there and they call you when the sheriff is done with them. Wetwork dropped his off and they called him the next day to pick them up. He never got to even see or speak with Whetsel.

[761mph]

thanks Dr............i was wondering what the procedure was...........

[DrBaker]

He tried to call ahead for an appointment, but the lady told him they don't take appointments and for him to just come in during regular business hours. IIRC it was $1 for the fingerprints and $10 for a background check that they complete.

I thought one day turn around time was pretty good.

[berettaman]

1 day? What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand!!! :P

[DrBaker]

1 day? What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand!!! :P

I guess you are right. They should let you come in on Sunday to get signatures too. :yelclap:

[berettaman]

Or do away with this silly useless infringment all together. :D

[DrBaker]

Or do away with this silly useless infringment all together. :D

We all wish. :contract:

[GonHuntin]

Wish it was that easy in Tulsa!!

[DrBaker]

Wish it was that easy in Tulsa!!

I'm in Cleveland County so I don't have first hand info, but I've heard others have lots of trouble in the Tulsa area. Have you tried the corporate or trust routes?

[GonHuntin]

Haven't tried it but have thought about it......shouldn't have to go that way...