Need help - Narrowing down on a budget long-range scope for my Remington 700

[ez bake]

This has been one of the most painful processes I've ever been through in that it is taking all the patience I have to not go out and buy the first scope I see a good deal on and actually try out some different models and make the right decision.

The rifle is a Remington 700 SPS Varmint. I've got the Badger Ordinance 20MOA mount on it and a cheapo Rock-Mount Bi-pod (for now - Harris is on its way) as well as a Kydex Adjustable Cheek Rest en-route. I'm looking to upgrade the stock later, but according to tests I've seen, the best bedded or skeletonized stocks out there only seem to gain a little bit more accuracy so that's a purchase I'm still waiting to justify and get the super-nice one when I have more money (barrel might be sooner as it appears to be what's holding me back more so than the stock - or at least as much).


I'm narrowing it down to a few choices (I threw a cheap Tasco on the rifle for now - feels funny to have a scope that cost 1/3 the price of the mount on it, but I had to have something on it - it was driving me crazy to have it naked and at least I can break it in this way).

I'm looking at the following scopes:

Burris 4.5-14x42 Fullfield TAC 30 Tactical 30mm (This is one I know the least about - I hear good and bad about Burris)
http://www.swfa.com/pc-12468-1108-bu...fle-scope.aspx


Millett 6-25x56 LRS-1 Tactical 35mm (I like this one over the TRS-1 because of the 1/4 MOA clicks - I'll never use the 25 power zoom, but being adjustable, I'm ok with having the extra magnification that i won't use)
http://www.swfa.com/pc-12807-1395-mi...iflescope.aspx

Super Sniper 20x42 30mm (fixed power, - may look at the 16x model instead, but either way - no nonsense and much cheaper than the other two and possibly the cheapest half-way decent mil-dot scope out there with 1/4 MOA clicks)
http://www.swfa.com/pc-4307-231-supe...fle-scope.aspx

Anyone have any feedback on these or something else under $500 with decent clarity/quality and the following features:

-Mil-Dot Reticle (illuminated is not necessary - or is it worth the extra money - anyone got an opinion?)
- 1/4 MOA clicks (or if possible on a scope of this budget - 1/2 MOA clicks - I just can't do 1/8 MOAs for what I intend to use the rifle for)
- Decent Target Knobs
- Up to 14x - 18x Magnification (preferrably adjustable - I don't know that its that important as there appear to be some good deals on fixed power scopes, but I do adjust the scopes I have for different distances when using for target shooting or hunting, so I probably will with a nicer scope too). As a side note, I have an issue with seeing objects clearly at only 10x - I know this is usually plenty of zoom for the average joe, but I

I know everyone tells me that 14x-18x magnification is overkill and that Mirage will kill me at that point, but for some reason, the 10x - 12x scopes (even some of the higher quality ones) I've looked through, just don't give me a picture I feel comfortable shooting over 200-300 yards).

I'm planning on doing some long-range target shooting with this scope/rifle, but I'd also like to use this rifle to hunt with. I'd like to do some prone and bench-rest shooting, but be able to shoot from a tree-stand or free-standing for the right occassion.

Is there anything else out there in this price-range with decent quality and the above features? I like the 50mm Obj / 30mm tube scopes I've looked at for brightness - especially if I'm going to be doing any dusk/dawn hunting (but I don't know if that's necessarily always going to make a scope brighter - I've only sampled a few models from friends' scopes that happened to let me try them out).

[hidoa]

Look at the Falcon Menace. There's a guy in Glenpool that resells them.

[tyromeo55]

Some people like me (and I think Olyeller) have a hard time looking through the Burris. It has something to do with my eyes. The Millett is a great scope for the money but I have never liked the 50 + Objectives. As far as the sniper.... I don't know that I would want to limit myself to a 20 power could get pretty bothersome honing in on things from time to time.

[LDA.45]

I have a Milett LRS-1 and have been very happy with it.
Even if you don't want 25x, it's there if needed.
Eye relief is pretty forgiving and the glass has been very clear.
It also comes with high 35mm rings.
Hope this helps.
The only downside is: IT'S A BIG SCOPE!!!!!

[Josh-L]

Of those three the Burris would win hands down in my opinion. I am a big fan of the Millett scopes for what they are. While I have been converted to the mil/mil or moa/moa philosophy I don't think the 1/8 moa knobs are that big of deal anymore. I hated the idea at first and thought I had to have 1/4 but I also don't dial "clicks". I dial to the MOA so it doesn't really matter what the graduation of each click is because I'm not counting them if that makes sense. For non LE work I'm also a fan of fixed power scopes. Preferably 10x scopes. This is just what works for me and a lot of people have different opinions. So I would suggest either that Burris or a Millett TRS1 or TRS2. If you ever come up to OKC hit me up and I'll let you abuse one of my Millett's.

[Josh-L]

Originally Posted by hidoa

Look at the Falcon Menace. There's a guy in Glenpool that resells them.

Who is that? I've been trying to get one to test out.

[ez bake]

tyromeo55 - could you be more specific about the Burris? This model seems to be a tough one for me to get hold of to look through, so I'd really like to know more (you can PM me and/or we can chat on the phone if you like). I actually like this scope due to its simplicity and light weight (and I have to admit, partially because its OD green) - but I'd love to know more about individual likes/dislikes (not a lot of reliable reviews out there).


hidoa - Those Falcon scopes seem to fair very well in reviews. The Menace looks very nice and its lighter than the LRS-1 (even if by just a bit - which could totally be accounted for in the fact that the Millet is weighed with the sun-shade attached and the Falcon appears not to be). Price is nice though. Not a lot of info about the Warranty and with the company being in the UK, that sort of sends off an alarm - but no one seems to be complaining about them on the net. Who is the guy out in BA who is selling them?

Good info - keep it coming. Anyone else have any experience with the Burris?

[Ksmirk]

Ok I'll play! for under $500 bucks I'd go with the Super Sniper but not in a 20x or 16x but just the good ol' 10x. It's plenty enough to get you out to 1K and you can see much better than you would think! you get to much magnification and things get fuzzy when it warms up (mirage) there's plenty of the SS scopes out there you could look thru but anyway just another guys opinion. Later,

Kirk

[crazyfish]

I have a Burris 4.5 x 14 fullfield 2 and I like it a lot. I got it last year for a 7mm mag for an elk hunt. I looked through a lot of scopes and it just seemed the brightest and clearest for the price range. I'll actually be headed to morris maybe next week sometime. If I do, i can bring my rifle and let you take a look through it. If you've got somewhere to shoot, I'd let you do that too if you want. Only thing is that I'll be there during the daytime...

[ez bake]

Ksmirk - You know man, as much as I tried to discount the Super Sniper scope in my head as an obvious second-string scope to my choices... it is looking pretty nice. for $100 cheaper than the Burris and $200 cheaper than the LRS-1, I can have a damn nice scope that weighs only 21oz and is basically no-nonsense and seems to be everything I want other than the adjustable zoom (but the lighter weight makes it pretty much worth it).

I've actually had a chance to look through a 10x SS before, and while it was impressive, I'd still have to go with the 16x (probably not the 20x the more I think about it though).

That same day I got to look through a Leupold MKIV in 10x and while it was also impressive (and maybe my white-trash eyes just don't know what to do with quality), I still wanted more zoom. I understand that Mirage gets to be a pain and with a fixed-power scope, there's more risk of it being unavoidable, but 10x just didn't play with my eyes well - even in the good stuff.

Still - Super Sniper scopes seem like the best all-around deal.

crazyfish - I may take you up on that offer man. If you're available to hit the Okmulgee range, I'd gladly shoot your rifle (and buy you lunch or something just for your time). If not, I'd love just to look through it.

I'll PM you with my contact info - if we can hook up then cool, if not... well, its good to know another OSA'er has your back when making a big purchase like this.

I might actually be in Eastern Edmond this weekend, so I may be close enough to Yukon to give you a holler (if its convenient for you).



Josh-L - You have no idea how many of my purchases you've influenced just from facts and comments you've made on this board (often not even to me). I really respect your opinion, but you're not making this any easier dammit

I had ruled out 1/8 MOA clicks for the most part due to the "turning the knob for days" problem of moving back more than a few hundred yards, but now you're making me re-think things - maybe 1/8 isn't that bad for what I'd be doing as long as there's around 110 MOA of overall adjustment.

This doesn't make things any easier because it brings back the TRS-1/2 into the picture, but it also allows for the Burris 6.5-20x50 Fullfield II Tactical as I had ruled it out due to 1/8 MOA clicks, but it has the 50mm objective lens at only 19oz.

Here's a question - why is there no love for large objective lenses (anything above 42 seems to be unpopular)? Is it just that they're not necessary and viewed as tacti-cool overkill? Seems like they allow more light into the scope in every scope I've looked through (though to be fair, not a lot of those scopes were uber-high quality).


Decision's definitely getting harder, but I appreciate all the insight. Keep it coming.

[mr_ouija]

If you're a member of SniperCentral, Mel there sells the Falcon Menace at a discount to members. Membership is $10/year.

I have a TRS-1 on my .308, and I don't think I'd want anything with a bigger objective than that, its already huge and takes a bit away from a good cheekweld. I've shot one of Ksmirk's guns that had a 10x SuperSniper on it, and it was a pretty good scope as well. Either would be a good choice.

[ez bake]

Looks like the Burris might be out. The Knobs adjust from 0-9 with 4 clicks between each number, but then only contain two clicks from 9 to complete the rotation to 0.

Why the hell would they do this? I'm new enough to MOA/Mil calculation, that I don't think I want to deal with an offset in order to use the knobs for more than a full rotation instead of just a hold-over with the ballistic Mil-Dot reticule (which also seems kind of limiting in that there are only 5 mil above and 5 below center and then that thick black ballistic reticle line doesn't give any indication of anything after that.

Plus there are only 30 MOA of adjustment in the knobs - so really, using the knobs for move up/back is kind of out anyway.

I hate it, but this one looks like its out of the mix (I really liked the look/weight/simplicity of this one too).

The Mueller Tactical 4-16x50mm is looking like a decent option for cheap - anyone have any experience with them?

[Josh-L]

After I built my Surgeon and went WAY over budget I throw a TRS2 on it just to hold me over. I thought I would hate the 1/8 clicks but I didn't really notice it. Just crank the knobs. If you think about it, you are still turning the knob the same distance, it just makes a faster clicking noise.... lol. I'm not sure why no love for the larger objective. The only down side I would see is having to get higher rings so it doesn't hit your barrel. Other than that I would go as large as I could. I would try and snag one of those Falcon optics too if you could. The model I want has been backordered for some time by the guy who sells them on Sniper's Hide. They seem to be really nice. They have a good reticle and are offered in mil/mil too. And just for informational purposes since you brought up holdovers... with my load and a 100 yard zero, a 5 mil holdover is almost exactly on at 600 yards. So even if the reticle only goes down 5 mils that will still get you out there pretty far.

[eich]

Just put a Nightforce on it and be done, my GAP TIS loves his!

[ez bake]

hell - why not just get the US Optics I've been looking for (they're in OD green too).

In all seriousness - I'm very grateful for all the input I've received so far and I'm learning a great deal in this process.