Alright, here's the deal.
Girlfriend wants a pistol, but is a newb to guns. She has bad arthritis in the web of her hand, at the base of her thumb - her bottom thumb joint. So, recoil hurts her. BUT, she decided (and I agree) that she should get at least a 9mm, not a .380. She's interested in training / taking a class, so this is a very good thing.
So, I've been recommending a large, all-steel, 9mm, such as a full-sized 1911 9mm, or a CZ 75/85, or BHP (or clone), or P226 ST, or whathaveyou.
I'd prefer a 2-stack so that the rear is wider, thereby distributing the recoil a bit left and right, instead of concentrated straight back directly into that thumb web. So really, I think 1911s are out, except perhaps a polymer 2-stack (ooooh, that gives me an idea - Wilson KZ 45...)
But, she shot a full-sized, 2-stack Bersa Thunder 9mm, which is an aluminum framed gun and fairly heavy, and she was STILL hurting before one magazine was emptied, so that won't work.
However, there are two competing ideas that make me think I should look elsewhere - the first being that polymers soak up more recoil by flexing a little. That would lead me to the idea of a full-sized 2-stack polymer - so thinking full-sized M&P there - would require a purchase.
The other being that maybe I should go .45 - idea being that even though total recoil force is more than 9mm, it's distributed over a longer time period than the higher-pressure 9mm (You often hear ".45 is more of a push, and 9mm & .40 are more of a snap").
If you combine both of these, then that makes me think that if they are both valid, then I can just give her my Taurus 24/7 OSS-DS which I'm currently trying to sell, but getting no interest on.
I know, I know - have her shoot it - but it's hard to get her to the range. I will, to be sure, unless it sells first. I guess my main question is whether I should 'pull it' from the for-sale list - is it even worth trying, or is it the case that some expert here can tell me that there's no way that a .45 will hurt her less than a 9mm, ceteris paribus?
Bottom line, which do you think best (among full-sized 2-stacks) for her, to minimize the felt recoil impulse into the base of the thumb, as much as humanly possible:
1. All-Steel 9mm
2. All-Steel .45
3. Polymer frame 9mm
4. Polymer frame .45
5. (final darkhorse idea) Scrap them all, and get the PMR-30 - tell me if you think it's adequate for self-defense (home defense), if it's what hurts her the least to practice with (probably so).
???
If you don't have a specific opinion on #1 through #5, then at least tell which of these two statements is MORE true than the other one (if either): "Polymer is better than steel, for your purposes, because it flexes and soaks up recoil", OR ".45 is better than 9mm, for your purposes, because it pushes more than snaps back", OR Neither.
That's the question - thanks. They all feel like relative pussycats to me, so I can't really tell. The only thing I don't like to shoot is the little polymer pocket 9mms, and snubbie .357s!
P.S. She can't shoot blocky guns like Glock, HK, & Beretta - she has tiny hands. And I do not want an aluminum frame gun. Although I personally like a good aluminum gun, I think that for her, it would be the worst of all worlds - not as heavy as steel, but directing the full brunt of the recoil into her hands.
P.P.S. Just thought of something else.... Ordinarily we want LOW bore axis guns, for muzzle flip / follow-up control, right? But perhaps the GF should purposely opt for a HIGH bore axis gun, like a Sig Classic, so that she gets more recoil energy directed into the "flip", rather than straight back into the web of her hand....... yes??? This would sacrifice follow up time to get less pain, but that's probably the best tradeoff for her, given that none or one shot will resolve most self-defense encounters, statistically.
P.P.P.S. Just thought of another idea. Perhaps a 1911 with an *arched* MSH would direct more recoil INTO the palm and thereby away from the web of the hand? Which other designs would direct relatively more recoil into the palm rather than into the web? J-frame .38s do, but they're really too snappy.
Another thing. I like option #5 because I want one anyway, and because it's a low purchase price. It's a tight budget, so we'd prefer not to buy anything, so if I can give her one of mine, that would be ideal. Here are the ones I need to have her shoot (at separate times, so there's no cumulative effect, creating a bias), which *may* work without a purchase:
1. CZ 85 9mm
2. Springfield longslide 6" 1911 .45
3. Taurus 24/7 OSS-DS .45
4. Star Firestar 9mm (yeah it's single stack and it's small, but dang it's one heavy bastard.
)
Which of those 4 would be *most likely* to hurt her the least, do you think? That would be ideal; no purchase needed. If we have to buy one, I'm thinking likely full-sized 9mm M&P, or Sig 226 ST (but too blocky of a grip?), or PMR-30, or ??? Wait, I ain't giving her that Star - that is one sweet carry pistol for me. I could give her the Taurus, or loan or give her the CZ or Springfield, but I want to keep the Star for winter belt carry CCW.
Girlfriend wants a pistol, but is a newb to guns. She has bad arthritis in the web of her hand, at the base of her thumb - her bottom thumb joint. So, recoil hurts her. BUT, she decided (and I agree) that she should get at least a 9mm, not a .380. She's interested in training / taking a class, so this is a very good thing.
So, I've been recommending a large, all-steel, 9mm, such as a full-sized 1911 9mm, or a CZ 75/85, or BHP (or clone), or P226 ST, or whathaveyou.
I'd prefer a 2-stack so that the rear is wider, thereby distributing the recoil a bit left and right, instead of concentrated straight back directly into that thumb web. So really, I think 1911s are out, except perhaps a polymer 2-stack (ooooh, that gives me an idea - Wilson KZ 45...)
But, she shot a full-sized, 2-stack Bersa Thunder 9mm, which is an aluminum framed gun and fairly heavy, and she was STILL hurting before one magazine was emptied, so that won't work.
However, there are two competing ideas that make me think I should look elsewhere - the first being that polymers soak up more recoil by flexing a little. That would lead me to the idea of a full-sized 2-stack polymer - so thinking full-sized M&P there - would require a purchase.
The other being that maybe I should go .45 - idea being that even though total recoil force is more than 9mm, it's distributed over a longer time period than the higher-pressure 9mm (You often hear ".45 is more of a push, and 9mm & .40 are more of a snap").
If you combine both of these, then that makes me think that if they are both valid, then I can just give her my Taurus 24/7 OSS-DS which I'm currently trying to sell, but getting no interest on.
I know, I know - have her shoot it - but it's hard to get her to the range. I will, to be sure, unless it sells first. I guess my main question is whether I should 'pull it' from the for-sale list - is it even worth trying, or is it the case that some expert here can tell me that there's no way that a .45 will hurt her less than a 9mm, ceteris paribus?
Bottom line, which do you think best (among full-sized 2-stacks) for her, to minimize the felt recoil impulse into the base of the thumb, as much as humanly possible:
1. All-Steel 9mm
2. All-Steel .45
3. Polymer frame 9mm
4. Polymer frame .45
5. (final darkhorse idea) Scrap them all, and get the PMR-30 - tell me if you think it's adequate for self-defense (home defense), if it's what hurts her the least to practice with (probably so).
???
If you don't have a specific opinion on #1 through #5, then at least tell which of these two statements is MORE true than the other one (if either): "Polymer is better than steel, for your purposes, because it flexes and soaks up recoil", OR ".45 is better than 9mm, for your purposes, because it pushes more than snaps back", OR Neither.
That's the question - thanks. They all feel like relative pussycats to me, so I can't really tell. The only thing I don't like to shoot is the little polymer pocket 9mms, and snubbie .357s!
P.S. She can't shoot blocky guns like Glock, HK, & Beretta - she has tiny hands. And I do not want an aluminum frame gun. Although I personally like a good aluminum gun, I think that for her, it would be the worst of all worlds - not as heavy as steel, but directing the full brunt of the recoil into her hands.
P.P.S. Just thought of something else.... Ordinarily we want LOW bore axis guns, for muzzle flip / follow-up control, right? But perhaps the GF should purposely opt for a HIGH bore axis gun, like a Sig Classic, so that she gets more recoil energy directed into the "flip", rather than straight back into the web of her hand....... yes??? This would sacrifice follow up time to get less pain, but that's probably the best tradeoff for her, given that none or one shot will resolve most self-defense encounters, statistically.
P.P.P.S. Just thought of another idea. Perhaps a 1911 with an *arched* MSH would direct more recoil INTO the palm and thereby away from the web of the hand? Which other designs would direct relatively more recoil into the palm rather than into the web? J-frame .38s do, but they're really too snappy.
Another thing. I like option #5 because I want one anyway, and because it's a low purchase price. It's a tight budget, so we'd prefer not to buy anything, so if I can give her one of mine, that would be ideal. Here are the ones I need to have her shoot (at separate times, so there's no cumulative effect, creating a bias), which *may* work without a purchase:
1. CZ 85 9mm
2. Springfield longslide 6" 1911 .45
3. Taurus 24/7 OSS-DS .45
4. Star Firestar 9mm (yeah it's single stack and it's small, but dang it's one heavy bastard.
)Which of those 4 would be *most likely* to hurt her the least, do you think? That would be ideal; no purchase needed. If we have to buy one, I'm thinking likely full-sized 9mm M&P, or Sig 226 ST (but too blocky of a grip?), or PMR-30, or ??? Wait, I ain't giving her that Star - that is one sweet carry pistol for me. I could give her the Taurus, or loan or give her the CZ or Springfield, but I want to keep the Star for winter belt carry CCW.
