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  1. #16

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Quote Originally Posted by F16mickey View Post
    The feds may not but some states do limit what a convicted felon may hunt with.
    If they don't then its just more proof in the pudding that the feds don't know their arse from a hole in the ground.

    Smooth bore or rifled just because you push the bullet in from a different end doesn't mean that a muzzle loader isn't a firearm.

    Federal law agrees: Any weapon that expels a projectile via an explosive is considered a firearm and a muzzle loader definitely fits that criteria. In addition to what is shown below 18 USC 922 also is the law that prohibits convicted felons from posessing firearms thus a felon can't own a muzzleloader.

    See 18 USC 922(g).

    The statute defines a firearm as the following:

    Any weapon (including a starter gun) that expels a projectile by the action of an explosive
    The frame or receiver of any such weapon
    Firearm mufflers and silencers
    Destructive devices
    Smile - and Laugh Often...

    Life is GOOD!


  2. #17

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Correction...haven't ever seen it prosecuted in Oklahoma.
    Last edited by DD10; 12-01-2011 at 08:51 PM.

  3. #18

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Quote Originally Posted by DD10 View Post
    Not illegal in Oklahoma.
    Doesn't matter what OK says - feds say muzzle loaders are firearms.

    That said: Lookup how OK defines a firearm. Almost identical to how the feds define one. Felon cannot own one here either unless OK has an exemption for black powder or muzzle loading guns I am not aware of (I've looked, can't find an exemption but that doesn't mean there isn't one buried in the law somewhere).
    Smile - and Laugh Often...

    Life is GOOD!


  4. #19

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Doesn't matter what OK says - feds say muzzle loaders are firearms.

    That said: Lookup how OK defines a firearm. Almost identical to how the feds define one. Felon cannot own one here either unless OK has an exemption for black powder or muzzle loading guns I am not aware of (I've looked, can't find an exemption but that doesn't mean there isn't one buried in the law somewhere).
    Good luck in that ever being prosecuted. Prosecutors wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pool.

  5. #20

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Quote Originally Posted by DD10 View Post
    Not illegal in Oklahoma.
    Says who?

    As a 13 year employee of OK DOC, I have answered this question for offenders probably 100 times. No shotguns, no muzzleloaders. They both use an explosive to propel a projectile or projectiles. Where did I get MY info? Probation and Parole officers and my local District Attorney.
    -OU GRAD

    NRA LIFE MEMBER **ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ**
    OK SDA INSTRUCTOR
    FEEDBACK: http://www.okshooters.com/forums/sho...ht=shooterdave

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoForFlinching View Post
    I ******* love this thread

  6. #21

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Oh its Illegal as hell. I know. I have dealt with it before and will again. Each time has resulted in conviction. Loaded or not they are a no no for possession by a convicted felon. I have never heard of any exception levied by any court or judge to allow possession after conviction. Just sayin.

  7. #22

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
    Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
    Chapter 53 - Manufacture, Sale, and Wearing of Weapons
    Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971
    Section 1289.4 - Definition of Rifles
    Cite as: O.S. , __ __


    "Rifles" as used in the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title, shall mean any firearm capable of discharging a projectile composed of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury, with a barrel or barrels more than sixteen (16) inches in length, and using either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion, but not to include archery equipment, flare guns or underwater fishing guns. In addition, any rifle capable of firing "shot" but primarily designed to fire single projectiles will be regarded as a "rifle".

    Historical Data

    Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
    Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
    Chapter 53 - Manufacture, Sale, and Wearing of Weapons
    Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971
    Section 1289.3 - Definition of Pistols
    Cite as: O.S. , __ __


    "Pistols" as used in the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title, shall mean any firearm capable of discharging a projectile composed of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury, with a barrel or barrels less than sixteen (16) inches in length, and using either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion, but not to include flare guns, underwater fishing guns or blank pistols.

    Historical Data

    Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
    Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
    Chapter 53 - Manufacture, Sale, and Wearing of Weapons
    Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971
    Section 1289.5 - Definition of Shotguns
    Cite as: O.S. , __ __


    "Shotguns" as used in the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title, shall mean any firearm capable of discharging a series of projectiles of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury, with a barrel or barrels more than eighteen (18) inches in length, and using either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion, but not to include any weapon so designed with a barrel less than eighteen (18) inches in length. In addition, any "shotgun" capable of firing single projectiles but primarily designed to fire multiple projectiles such as "shot" will be regarded as a "shotgun".

    Historical Data

    Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
    Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
    Chapter 53 - Manufacture, Sale, and Wearing of Weapons
    Section 1283 - Convicted Felons and Delinquents Prohibited From Possessing Firearms - Restoration of Rights - Penalties for Violations
    Cite as: O.S. , __ __


    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, it shall be unlawful for any person convicted of any felony in any court of this state or of another state or of the United States to have in his or her possession or under his or her immediate control, or in any vehicle which the person is operating, or in which the person is riding as a passenger, or at the residence where the convicted person resides, any pistol, imitation or homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun or rifle, or any other dangerous or deadly firearm.

    B. Any person who has previously been convicted of a nonviolent felony in any court of this state or of another state or of the United States, and who has received a full and complete pardon from the proper authority and has not been convicted of any other felony offense which has not been pardoned, shall have restored the right to possess any firearm or other weapon prohibited by subsection A of this section, the right to apply for and carry a concealed handgun pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and the right to perform the duties of a peace officer, gunsmith, or for firearms repair.

    C. It shall be unlawful for any person supervised by the Department of Corrections or any division thereof to have in his or her possession or under his or her immediate control, or at his or her residence, or in any passenger vehicle which the supervised person is operating or is riding as a passenger, any pistol, shotgun or rifle, including any imitation or homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, shotgun or rifle, while such person is subject to supervision, probation, parole or inmate status.

    D. It shall be unlawful for any person previously adjudicated as a delinquent child or a youthful offender for the commission of an offense, which would have constituted a felony offense if committed by an adult, to have in the person's possession or under the person's immediate control, or have in any vehicle which he or she is driving or in which the person is riding as a passenger, or at the person's residence, any pistol, imitation or homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun or rifle, or any other dangerous or deadly firearm within ten (10) years after such adjudication; provided, that nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit the placement of the person in a home with a full-time duly appointed peace officer who is certified by the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training (CLEET) pursuant to the provisions of Section 3311 of Title 70 of the Oklahoma Statutes.

    E. Any person having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and who thereafter knowingly or intentionally allows a convicted felon or adjudicated delinquent or a youthful offender as prohibited by the provisions of subsection A, C, or D of this section to possess or have control of any pistol authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable by a fine not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00). In addition, the person shall have the handgun license revoked by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation after a hearing and determination that the person has violated the provisions of this section.

    F. Any convicted or adjudicated person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable as provided in Section 1284 of this title.

    G. For purposes of this section, "sawed-off shotgun or rifle" shall mean any shotgun or rifle which has been shortened to any length.

    H. For purposes of this section, "altered toy pistol" shall mean any toy weapon which has been altered from its original manufactured state to resemble a real weapon.

    I. For purposes of this section, "altered air pistol" shall mean any air pistol manufactured to propel projectiles by air pressure which has been altered from its original manufactured state.

    Historical Data



    there it is.......

  8. #23

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    I mispoke earlier by saying "not Illegal". I should have said rarely prosecuted. Sorry about that

  9. #24

    Default Re: Felons and muzzleloaders...

    * DISCLAIMER: NOT LEGAL ADVICE *

    As a further illustration of the perils of asking legal questions on Internet forums --

    It was claimed above that federal law prohibits felons from owning muzzleloading firearms. No; it does not.

    A post above cited 18 USC 922(g), the provision of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 that prohibits felons from possessing "firearms." However, "firearm" is defined, for federal purposes, in 18 USC 921, the "definitions" section of the Act. Section 921(a)(3) defines "firearm" to exclude "antique firearms." It reads:

    (3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter
    gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
    expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
    receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
    silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
    an antique firearm.
    See that last bolded part? 18 USC 921 goes on to define "antique firearm," in 921(a)(16):

    (16) The term "antique firearm" means -
    (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
    flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system)
    manufactured in or before 1898; or
    (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if
    such replica -
    (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
    conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition
    which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which
    is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial
    trade; or
    (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle
    loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black
    powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
    Link: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/921

    So, blackpowder muzzleloading firearms that cannot use metallic cartridges are explicitly defined as NOT being "firearms" for purposes of the Gun Control Act. Thus, they are not subject to the federal prohibition on the possession of "firearms" by a convicted felon. Nor are they subject to the other restrictions that the Gun Control Act places on the sale and transfer of firearms. That is why, in many states, an individual can order a blackpowder percussion revolver from a retailer such as Midway USA by mail or Internet and have it shipped to his front door.

    State laws are an entirely separate matter, however. Some states allow convicted felons to possess certain muzzleloading firearms. Some do not.

    I haven't researched Oklahoma law on this matter (let alone Missouri?!) so I would have nothing to add about that. The sections from the Oklahoma statutes reproduced in a post above sure sound like it is not allowed.
    Last edited by TallPrairie; 12-02-2011 at 01:52 AM.
    "I see ... with the deepest affliction, the rapid strides with which the federal branch of our government is advancing towards the usurpation of all the rights reserved to the States, and the consolidation in itself of all powers ..." - Thomas Jefferson (1825)

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