Price per acre vs huntable acres

**AllOut** · 08-12-2012, 04:58 PM

For some reason this just gets to me, I've had some pretty heated discussions with landowners over it and I just don't think they understand. A lot of these guys who don't know much or anything about hunting but hear it through the grape vine "so and so here and so and so there" are getting $5,$10,$15,$20 whatever an acre for his land from hunters. So he turns around and decides his land is worth that much as well. The problem is they always go with whatever price is the highest that they heard and it's usually a "price per acre." Which is absolutely fine!!!
Now what burns me (yes I know it's their land and they can price it how they want) is the "I want $10 per acre for the hunting rights of my 320 acres cause that's the going rate around here" and come to find out it's a 300 acre wheat field, 10 acres of pasture and a 10 acre strip of woods! So it would be $3200 for about 20-30 acres of actual huntable land. COME ON NOW!!!
We had a guy in Alva last year try and lease us 2 quarter sections one was all CRP and woods and the other was all wheat but told us it's was $??? Per acre and the two properties went together. We told him we didn't want the wheat field just the 1/4 of CRP cause we couldn't hunt the wheat field. He told us that the CRP holds the deer on it but the wheat field is what brings them in LOL
He ended up calling us back a few weeks later and told us we could have just the CRP but we turned it down.
Sorry for the rant I just wish some people could figure out that huntable acres and non huntable acres don't bring the same $$$
Of course the way the property is layed out can make a difference as well.

**ahamay6** · 08-12-2012, 06:22 PM

I just wish the wildlife department hadn't screwed up hunting leases to begin with. The WD held a lot of town hall type meetings with land owners in an attempt to gain more access to hunting land for OK hunters, but failed miserably at it. What they did was show them how they could make money on their property and it went to their heads. Now they charge absurd amounts for access to their property that the majority of people can not afford. I have always been fortunate to have several hundred acres of family land to hunt, but if I did not, I would be left with public(not that thats all that bad of a thing) or not hunting at all. Good rant! Hope I didn't hijack you too bad.

**fishfurlife** · 08-12-2012, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by ahamay6

I just wish the wildlife department hadn't screwed up hunting leases to begin with. The WD held a lot of town hall type meetings with land owners in an attempt to gain more access to hunting land for OK hunters, but failed miserably at it. What they did was show them how they could make money on their property and it went to their heads. Now they charge absurd amounts for access to their property that the majority of people can not afford. I have always been fortunate to have several hundred acres of family land to hunt, but if I did not, I would be left with public(not that thats all that bad of a thing) or not hunting at all. Good rant! Hope I didn't hijack you too bad.

Out of curiosity, how long ago were said meetings? I can not recall any Public hearings in recent times that addressed the ODWC attempting to set up a program like that of Kansas. If you are not referring to a program that is similar to the Kansas WHIP areas then I guess I am misreading your post.

Allout - I agree with what you are trying to say. Those in SW Oklahoma that have elk cross their place once every blue moon will ask a premium for leases just based on the fact that an elk walked through their place at one time or another.

**ahamay6** · 08-12-2012, 08:26 PM

The one I knew of took place in Pontotoc county last year. The ODWC held a town hall meeting encouraging land owners to offer hunting rights. They basically showed them how they could get $8-$15 per acre. I am not aware of a program in Kansas, but it could be similar to what youre talking about up north.

**AllOut** · 08-12-2012, 08:50 PM

You guys feel free to hi-jack... This is just a rant lol
But yes Fishfirlife, the elk thing is a prime example of what I am getting at and I'm sure bear plays a big role down SW as well.
The "Walk In" program in Kansas is a great idea but they go about it ass backwards. I hunt Kansas and have been on many of the walk in properties. For those that don't know what that program is, the state goes and leases private lands every year (quit a bit actually) and opens it up for public hinting. GRAT IDEA and I wish OK would try it but Kansas has an issue with only wanting to lease open crop fields. But every now and then you will find a good spot.

At lease our price per acre isn't on par with Kansas, Iowa, Illinois and Ohio.... Yet
Or my rant might be totally different lol

**DEER 24/7** · 08-12-2012, 09:58 PM

allout i hear what your saying but the demand for good hunting makes the price i can'nt blame most ranchers and farmers for asking what they ask for it,if i am selling something i am going to look around and ask what it is worth,the problem is like what your saying. bobby down the road sold his 1972 chevelle that was almost like new for 40,000.ted says i think i will sell mine 1972 chevelle which has all the floor pans rusted out,engine smokes,transmission slips,needs new hood on market for 40.000,alot times guys with the money make it hard.take the 320 acres you was talking about 10 a acre is 3200 a year,if i was making 100,000+ a year would be no big deal to lease both which i would be better that way you have where they stay and where they eat.but if you make 60,000 a year and its all you can do to make ends meet then 3200 would be hard to do.back 30 yrs ago i was leasing places to hunt before all the leasing thing got started i would pay 2 to 5 acre and my buddies told me i was nuts paying for hunting,i would tell them i guess you just do'nt care enough about it to reach in your wallet and pay a little to get acsess to good hunting.man i am eating by words now.kansas walk in areas are a good idea if they did'nt they would have very little public hunting unlike oklahoma which has alot of public hunting,the problem there is oklahoma does a very very very poor job on the wma maining the land for deer.there is so much more that they could do,you take like the areas in se part of the state bulldoze some the mature timber out and plant food crops,the guys running those places need to have some farming lessons most places i have been on they plant nothing in the sping time and then get there wheat in so late does'nt do a hunter any good,some of the best private hunting is next to public land they have food plots corn feeders and draw the deer off the public grounds

**AllOut** · 08-12-2012, 11:12 PM

To me it really has nothing to do with the total amount dollar wise. Honestly it comes down to priorities and your money. Some people don't want to spend $5k a year to hunt if they have the money to blow or not, which is fine. Hunting obviously isn't a big priority in their life. Some guys don't make good money but they scavenge and save all year to come up with the money to get what they want (I fall into this class), but huntin is a big part of their life. I have also been paying to lease for a while, before or right when it seem to been getting popular.
My only grip is this...
As hunters we lease hunting rights and typically hunting rights only. Farmers also lease lands just as we do, some times for farming rights only. Now I don't know any farmer who is going to pay "the going rate" per acre on a farm 300 acres when only 20 acres is tillable. But as hunter we are expected to pay "the going rate" per acre for the whole 300 when only 20 acres is huntable.
Now most land owners would understand the farmer saying well I can only plant 20 acres but it seems like either they don't get the idea that hunting falls under the same concept or they don't care.

**AllOut** · 08-12-2012, 11:19 PM

As for comparing Kansas to Oklahoma... Yes we have more public land but our state is also a lot smaller, way more populated and we have 3-4 times the amount of hunters that Kansas does. We may have 10x the public land but our public is 10x as crowded as theirs. You'd be hard pressed to find a piece of public land in OK and not run into someone else while your out. I've hunted a lot of places in KS and never ran into a single person all year. Of course I only bow hunt in Kansas.
The majority of hunters in Kansas hunt private land.

**j-dubb** · 08-12-2012, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by AllOut

To me it really has nothing to do with the total amount dollar wise. Honestly it comes down to priorities and your money. Some people don't want to spend $5k a year to hunt if they have the money to blow or not, which is fine. Hunting obviously isn't a big priority in their life. Some guys don't make good money but they scavenge and save all year to come up with the money to get what they want (I fall into this class), but huntin is a big part of their life. I have also been paying to lease for a while, before or right when it seem to been getting popular.
My only grip is this...
As hunters we lease hunting rights and typically hunting rights only. Farmers also lease lands just as we do, some times for farming rights only. Now I don't know any farmer who is going to pay "the going rate" per acre on a farm 300 acres when only 20 acres is tillable. But as hunter we are expected to pay "the going rate" per acre for the whole 300 when only 20 acres is huntable.
Now most land owners would understand the farmer saying well I can only plant 20 acres but it seems like either they don't get the idea that hunting falls under the same concept or they don't care.

Maybe you can talk to him about hunting certain sections or quarter sections of his land and pay only for those quarter sections or sections instead of everything? However would you shoot or pass up a wall mounter if your in your stand and the deer you've been waiting on all season is 5 feet on the other side of land your not paying for but on the same land owner and same piece of land?

Most land owners have usually been around the block a time or two with hunters leasing land and they know that hunters don't always hunt where they said they would and not go and hunt where they are told not to.

I see your point, but at the same time do you expect a land owner to walk with you around his land and say this 20 acres probably won't have deer come across it or contribute to your hunt so we won't count this 20 acres. However we will count this 5 here and this 10 acres here because I see their paths and know they walk through here. Do you drive in on his road? Cross his cattle guards? Climb or go through his fence? Once you cross his property line your on his land and some people look at it that way.

**AllOut** · 08-13-2012, 01:16 AM

It's not one land owner I'm talking about, it's land priced per acre in general.
I can see your point but it's not exactly what I'm getting at.
If your leasing a piece of land for a specific reason and paying a certain price per acre then the majority of those acre should be able to be utilized for the reason your paying for it. Now if not then the price should be adjusted accordingly, and not priced at the high end of the going rate.
I typically won't lease a piece of land that's priced that way. I look at a piece of land and then decide how much it's worth to me to hunt it, if the land owned won't agree to the price then we walk.

**carter** · 08-13-2012, 06:13 PM

i started my life by hunting on people that we knew. My family got turned down very seldom. we would occassionally hunt on the old weirhouser land.

after college, i moved to KS. we would drive roads and ask to hunt pheasants. we might get turned away on openeing weekends, etc. we would offer the landowners a couple of cleaned pheasants when we hunted.

when i moved back to Okla, i hunted pulic land and many of the old friends had moved from the farms. those that had land were hunting it or starting to lease it. deer hunting and duck hunting was good around Ponca City

i got into an arguement as a person decided to use my tree stand mid day. i then decided to get on a lease ..... this was about 15 years ago.

i tried leases as they got more and more expensive.

i went back to visit in KS and found no one would let us hunt as the land was leased.

about 10 years ago - everywhere that i went was leased. Leasing is a good income generating ssytem for land owners. the landowners just looked atTx to see the possibilities. if you wish to have as=ccess to good land - just face teh fact that it will cost you.

**AllOut** · 08-13-2012, 07:34 PM

Oh we have plenty of leases, I have no problem paying for a spot I want. We normally pay pretty decent at that.
My rant isn't about leasing in general.

But just to add on the KS deal... The first year we hunted in KS (2008) we landed 3 different private land spots to hunt for free. But we spent most our time on public cause we had some sweet public spots all to ourselves lol

**donovan** · 08-13-2012, 08:55 PM

Supply and demand......... period..........have had good lease that have been back doored and out bid the next year.......Im in the southern part of the state and have lost leases to people from texas , what Ii thought was a crazy price texans paid with a smile..... have a friend in texas and he pays 10k a year for 2000 acres with about 30% cover to hold deer...He was proud to get it had it 2 yrs and the farmer was offered more.....supply and demand.......... try buying said land and the lease doesnt seem to bad..........

**makeithappen** · 08-14-2012, 06:58 AM

It's all about the money these days. With the drought, crops are failing and herds are being downsized, so the lease prices will go up this year and the next few until farmers/ranchers are able to balance out crop and herd numbers. Sadly, with QDM becoming big prices continue to go higher and hunting is moving toward a rich man's hobby.

**fishfurlife** · 08-14-2012, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by AllOut

Oh we have plenty of leases, I have no problem paying for a spot I want. We normally pay pretty decent at that.
My rant isn't about leasing in general.

But just to add on the KS deal... The first year we hunted in KS (2008) we landed 3 different private land spots to hunt for free. But we spent most our time on public cause we had some sweet public spots all to ourselves lol

This is just helping the cat out of the bag but I have had the same experience hunting the WHIP land in kansas. Two seasons ago, I picked up a leftover tag and hunted up there on public ground. Other than the guy that was hunting with me, I didn't see another archery hunter during three separate trips up there. Heck, we even hunted opening day of the season (also muzzleloader opener) and didn't see a single smoke pole hunter. This was on a huge tract of land too.

On years that I don't draw a tag out west, I plan to pick up leftover tags from Ks.