Modern Bows are pretty insane.

**shootermcgavin** · 08-18-2012, 07:34 PM

Last year I borrowed an old bow for archery season. This season (3 days ago) I bought a new bow. It is a Bear Encounter. Got the ready to hunt package. I love it so far, just fyi. But it is a cheaper bow. I mostly bought it because it was the cheapest of the bows I could find that would fit me well. (Even with the draw length as far as it will go, I still have to use a trigger release to get it just barely to the perfect length... or way closer than I had last season. But I digress...

The reason I started this thread was to say that I shot an old bow maybe a total of 50 times last year. I shot this one about 10-15 times at Bass Pro before I bought to get it sighted in, and that is it. To have an amatuer like me being able to go out, and first shots shoot groupings as well as I did today is pretty crazy. Please don't misinterpret me for saying these are awesome groupings, or that I'm amazing or anything of the sort. Just that bows today sure do help a person out a LOT.

This was at 30 yards.... aiming at the target the far right arrow is in.

This was at 40 yards.... I was aiming at the center target, so elevation was good, just needed to adjust for windage or hold steadier or something. Still though.. grouping was good.

And this was 50 yards.... aiming at center target, although I didn't have a sight for this distance, just had to guess off of the 40 pin.

So in summation, I am quite pleased with my purchase, and am DEFINITELY a more consistant shot this year than I was last year.

**AllOut** · 08-19-2012, 03:26 PM

Just a heads up, a release doesn't change anything on your draw length. Are you like 9 feet tall??? Seriously the bow its self need to fit you if it doesn't then you should have bough on that does. Unless the issue is your abnormally tall or have a freakish wingspan and they just don't make bows that fit you.
Great shooting though, keep up the practice and watch those group shrink up even more.
Congrats on the new toy, kill something with it Other than that target and show us some pics!!!

**imhntn** · 08-19-2012, 03:51 PM

You are correct about the modern bows. They are almost like shooting a rifle. Hope you sack up some deer with it this fall!

**XD-9Guy** · 08-19-2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by AllOut

Just a heads up, a release doesn't change anything on your draw length. Are you like 9 feet tall??? Seriously the bow its self need to fit you if it doesn't then you should have bough on that does. Unless the issue is your abnormally tall or have a freakish wingspan and they just don't make bows that fit you.
Great shooting though, keep up the practice and watch those group shrink up even more.
Congrats on the new toy, kill something with it Other than that target and show us some pics!!!

I'm sure he'll be along to respond eventually but... Yeah, he's a freak - like 6' 9" and arms to his knees - LOL

**shootermcgavin** · 08-19-2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by AllOut

Just a heads up, a release doesn't change anything on your draw length. Are you like 9 feet tall??? Seriously the bow its self need to fit you if it doesn't then you should have bough on that does. Unless the issue is your abnormally tall or have a freakish wingspan and they just don't make bows that fit you.
Great shooting though, keep up the practice and watch those group shrink up even more.
Congrats on the new toy, kill something with it Other than that target and show us some pics!!!

Yeah I am 6'9". The only bows I found that were legitimately long enough were about $900. I didn't care to spend that. As for the release not changing my draw, I greatly disagree. Watch me pull the bow without the release and with the release. If I keep my left elbow bent to the same degree, it is the difference between putting my right hand on my mouth, and below my ear in the pocket.

**AllOut** · 08-19-2012, 05:35 PM

I'm not telling you my opinion, it's a fact of bows and archery. The only thing that changes DL is to actually change the DL of the bow. You can add a long D Loop or use a release, try and extend your release as long at it can go. But at the end of the day the DL of the bow is still the same. It sounds like you use to shoot fingers? Either way, If you shoot fingers, releases, wrist strap, thumb, back tension etc, your DL is always the same.
What you have to watch is doing odd things to try and make the bow "fit" will cause your form to be bad. Now in you case there isn't much you can do. I'd love to be 6'9" and have my worse issue be finding a bow that fits for under $900 LOL

**shootermcgavin** · 08-19-2012, 07:08 PM

I think we are arguing semantics. I'm not saying the bow is longer draw because my release. I get the distance from the string to the rest is the same, and the arrow will be the same length regardless if I use a release. But my hands are further apart and it feels more comfortable. If feels like it fits better, and maybe I should say that it appears to have a longer draw and that is most definitely a result of the release.

**ripnbst** · 08-19-2012, 07:55 PM

He is just nit picking over your use of the term "draw length" but you are both correct. You don't modify the draw length of the bow by adding a release or D loop but you do increase the distance between your hands at full draw. Regardless, keep shooting and get more string time. Your groups are already "kill zone" size for sure.

**shootermcgavin** · 08-19-2012, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by ripnbst

He is just nit picking over your use of the term "draw length" but you are both correct. You don't modify the draw length of the bow by adding a release or D loop but you do increase the distance between your hands at full draw. Regardless, keep shooting and get more string time. Your groups are already "kill zone" size for sure.

Yeah, that is what I figured out too. That's why I've decided there needs to be a term (if there isn't one already, i'm not sure) to reference the length of draw with your release and d-loop and what not. I will henceforth call it my "artificial draw length."

And yeah I'm really excited about the groupings. I've got no qualms about shooting a deer at 30 yards, and if necessary, not too worried about trying a 40 yard shot. 50 is a bit more than I'd prefer to do though. That does bring up a question I had though. Let's say you're some sort of wiz and can hit a bullseye at, 300 yards or whatever. Something ridiculously far. The question is this. With a bow, is it the sort of deal where if you can get your arrow there, it has the power to still take a deer out or will it eventually reach a spot it is too slow to penetrate very far and confidently kill a deer. I of course have no plans on mastering a 300 yard shot, just curious.

**AllOut** · 08-19-2012, 10:22 PM

Yes I'm just nip picking ya for fun, i was bored and needed something to do LOL

As far as the question, an arrow is very straight and broadheads are very sharp. It really doesn't take much energy to kill something. About 35ft/lb for a deer.

**littlefoot** · 08-20-2012, 03:13 PM

great shooting.

**shootermcgavin** · 08-20-2012, 11:39 PM

I did better today at 40 yards. Still feeling pretty confident with my chances out to 30 yards, assuming I don't contract a quick case of deer/ buck fever when the time comes to release an arrow..... Which is quite possibly considering I should be asleep right now but am instead watching videos of deer being killed by archery... i'm a bit excited for archery season. I like "leatherwoodoutdoors" on youtube... mostly because they have a good camera and I can actually see what's happening.

**olyeller** · 08-21-2012, 12:58 AM

Ive had this mixup this last weekend also. Im talking draw length and the pro shop guy is telling me that a d loop wont change my draw length. I think that some archery folks havent ever shot a trad bow. It all breaks down to your draw length, how far you have to pull in order to get a good anchor, and get some of your back muscles in on it. This is the only thing that really matters; everything else should be fit to your pull.

**DeerAssassin** · 08-21-2012, 02:57 AM

You can shoot targets all you want, but when that buck fever sets in all your training goes out the window. It freakin' sucks when your sitting there at full draw shaking from the adrenaline trying to get that little dot on the kill zone. Can't wait till October!

**shootermcgavin** · 08-21-2012, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by DeerAssassin

You can shoot targets all you want, but when that buck fever sets in all your training goes out the window. It freakin' sucks when your sitting there at full draw shaking from the adrenaline trying to get that little dot on the kill zone. Can't wait till October!

I'm hoping I do like rifle season. Typically once a deer walks out I go very come and logical.. "i need to wait to pull up my gun until he can't see me, I need to.... " and rationalize my moves pretty well. It's 4 seconds after the shot has happened that I can barely stand. Until then I'm actually pretty steady though. HOPEFULLY that will be the same for archery.