M1 Carbine

**jcoleman106** · 12-24-2012, 09:50 PM

I've come across an M1 carbine 30 caliber. From the serial number I've gathered that it was made/manufactured by IBM (International Business Machines) back in the day. It has an RRA stamp on the stock which makes me think it was refurbished at Rock River Arsenal for I think the Korean War? I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm thinking about seeing what I can get for it as I am wanting to purchase an AR-15. Could anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks

**flatwins** · 12-24-2012, 10:41 PM

Welcome aboard OSA. We have a milsurp section so hopefully one of the mods can move this post to that section. M1 carbines are a blast and it sounds like you have a genuine USGI unit made by IBM during the war. The RRA mark is for the Red River Arsenal. Is there an import mark on the bottom of the barrel near the muzzle? If so it might be something like "Blue Sky". Is the serial number of the receiver also engraved into the stock?

**jcoleman106** · 12-25-2012, 01:26 AM

I saw something that says anco but not blue sky. I can't find the serial on the stock but I may not know where to look. Yeah I'm new on the site lol. It's still in good working condition. I've fired probably 200 rounds through it.

**flatwins** · 12-25-2012, 03:14 AM

Blue Sky was just one of the importers. There is a lot of history surrounding the .30 Carbines. Some were left in Europe after the war so they later had to be reimported back to the US while most came back after the war with the troops and were not required to go through an importer. Generally the non-imports are worth a little more. The Carbines used to be cheap but these days a functioning, decent, unmodified example with fetch at least $500 and go up from there. Since most were arsenal mix-masters, they contain parts from all the various wartime contractors and occasionally you will find a really rare part that could be worth some dollars. I sold a stock (semi rare Saginaw S'G') off one not long ago for over $500 on eBay.

Here's my .02: I have several different firearms including military surplus, black rifles, etc., and I prefer guns that tell a story. The US military surplus guns do just that and continue to gain value every year so just be careful before selling it off and regretting it later.

**Perplexed** · 12-26-2012, 09:25 AM

I'll echo what Flatwins said. The IBM-produced M1 Carbines are about mid-pack as far as rarity goes - less common than the Inlands, Saginaws, and Winchesters, for example, but more common than the Rock-Olas, etc. There should not be a serial number on the stock as the factories did not do that; you should only find the acceptance cartouches in the sling well and on the right-hand side of the butt stock. The RRA stamp is indeed the mark of the Rock River Arsenal, though that doesn't necessarily mean the receiver came with that stock from the arsenal - a previous owner could have swapped out the stock... or sold it because it was a rare one

Arsenal refurbs took place starting late in WW2 and continued through the 1960s IIRC, so it can be hard to pin-point when exactly a refurb took place; in fact, a Carbine could have gone through more than one arsenal in its lifetime. Since the vast majority of Carbines went through that process, I wouldn't consider it as a make-or-break factor in a deal.

One of the main things to look for would be muzzle wear; if you don't have access to a wear gauge, try and borrow one. Usually the wear will be low (less than 3, often less than 2), but worn-out bores aren't uncommon. As most M1 Carbines had mediocre accuracy to begin with, a worn bore would just make a bad situation worse. Does the barrel have "IBM" stamped into the top, near the muzzle? If so, it could be the original barrel especially if its appearance matches that of the receiver, and the Carbine's value will depend even more on the amount of wear.

The CMP was selling service-grade ("good to very good") examples of the IBM-made M1 Carbines for about $550 a couple years ago; now that they're out, the values have risen, but I wouldn't pay more than $725 for a good example of an IBM-made Carbine mixmaster with original barrel (MW < 3).

The M1 Carbine is what it is. Some people love the little firearms; others, myself included, don't really care for them. I had several, but sold them all off last year and have slept well since

**jcoleman106** · 12-27-2012, 06:36 PM

Yeah, I was thinking about takin it to Metcalf's this weekend in the city to see what I can get for it. I'll try to get ahold of a wear gauge. Thanks for the advice.

**flatwins** · 12-28-2012, 01:04 AM

This is a bit of deja vu. In '09 I was at one of the shows where times were much like they are right now: anything black rifle related was flying off the shelves. Same with ammo. Anyhow, TK Supply was at the show and selling ARs as fast as they could put them on the table. A guy walked up with one of the lesser seen M1 Carbines (think it was a Nat'l Postal Meter) and wanted to trade them towards an AR. They were so busy selling them without working a trade into the deal they declined.

You might have better luck with an individual rather than a dealer at the show.

**jcoleman106** · 12-28-2012, 07:51 PM

I might just see what they'll give me for it rather than trading up. I guess I'll find out in the morning. Wanna get there early before everything gets picked over. I may just hold on to it, but I'll keep my options open.

**ldp4570** · 12-30-2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by jcoleman106

I might just see what they'll give me for it rather than trading up. I guess I'll find out in the morning. Wanna get there early before everything gets picked over. I may just hold on to it, but I'll keep my options open.

I for one hope you kept it!! I'm another lover of the War-Baby Carbine!!

**Brandi** · 12-31-2012, 12:39 AM

I'd say keep it. I know I'd love to have one. My only "milsurp" is an 1873 Springfield 45-70 carbine (was a rifle but cut down looong ago)...it's an awesome rifle but I still want a Garand and an M1 carbine.

**JB Books** · 12-31-2012, 12:51 AM

I'd keep it. The WW II carbines just keep going up in value. On a practical note, they are very easy to shoot and generally you can find ammo and magazines.

**flatwins** · 12-31-2012, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by JB Books

I'd keep it. The WW II carbines just keep going up in value. On a practical note, they are very easy to shoot and generally you can find ammo and magazines.

They are fun and have quite a bit of history behind them. I had opportunities to buy Carbines a few times several years ago for cheap but didn't for some reason. I have a couple now though one is a promised sale to a friend of mine who has wanted one for a while. I remember when they could be had for $175.

**Shriner** · 01-01-2013, 04:27 PM

M1's were mix masters when they come out of the factory due to the fact most of the parts were subbed out , winchester may of made most of there parts but still parts from other companies were used . Once the M1 went in for rebuild all the good parts were throwen in a bin cleaned and reused as someone grabed them to rebuild a rifle.

**Perplexed** · 01-02-2013, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Shriner

M1's were mix masters when they come out of the factory due to the fact most of the parts were subbed out , winchester may of made most of there parts but still parts from other companies were used . Once the M1 went in for rebuild all the good parts were throwen in a bin cleaned and reused as someone grabed them to rebuild a rifle.

To a certain extent this is true, but in the M1 Garand (and Carbine) world, a "mixmaster" is generally meant to refer to a M1 that's gone through the arsenal process, not one that came from the factory in its original configuration. There's a lot of debate about which parts were original to a M1 since some variations did occur, especially at either end of WW2 and during the post-Korean Conflict years, but "mixmaster" is reserved for M1's having been mixed up as a result of arsenal rebuilding.