Shoot or don't Shoot...

**izahuh** · 01-07-2013, 01:05 AM

Hey everyone, wanted some opinions and outlooks on a situation that I ran into.

It was NYE and I was looking for the venue that I was supposed to attend, my date and I were at a stoplight waiting for it to turn green and when it did, an old light brown cutlass style vehicle ran the red to make a left turn coming towards me. So my natural reaction is to shoot! Jk, Jk, I lean on the horn to let individual know that was too close. Well they stop their car halfway blocking my lane and the individual hops out of the car, he starts doing his little limp leg jig towards my vehicle and I'm watching the position of his arms and hands and nothing is triggering any motions for a weapon that I could tell. About halfway to my vehicle his friend jumps out, his body language to me, is that of a supporter because his friend jumps out. As canadian number 1 gets right up to my mirror and pull away having to maneuver around his sweet ride and along I go.

And go!....

FYI: I have a Sig 226 in between the seats ready to engage.

**SMS** · 01-07-2013, 07:40 AM

Shoot who, and when? There is nothing in this scenario that involves deadly force or the need to use it.

Maybe stop leaning on your horn, it's not your job to let people know they passed too close or ran a red light. I know it's tempting sometimes....people driving like idiots can get the blood pumping, but you gotta fight that urge.

**izahuh** · 01-07-2013, 08:32 AM

I guess my question is should I have reaching for my gun at any point JIC

**SMS** · 01-07-2013, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by izahuh

I guess my question is should I have reaching for my gun at any point JIC

Well you said your Sig was already in between the seats and ready. You are locked inside a vehicle, being approached by pedestrians who are not displaying any deadly weapons.

Drive away...and that's just what you did.

**Double_tap** · 01-07-2013, 09:14 AM

No threat=no gun, I think this would have just earned you a brandishing charge if you would have pointed your gun.

**HMCS(FMF)Ret.** · 01-07-2013, 10:32 AM

Not a threat to your life. Leave the situation.

**MrShooter** · 01-07-2013, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by izahuh

Hey everyone, wanted some opinions and outlooks on a situation that I ran into.

It was NYE and I was looking for the venue that I was supposed to attend, my date and I were at a stoplight waiting for it to turn green and when it did, an old light brown cutlass style vehicle ran the red to make a left turn coming towards me. So my natural reaction is to shoot! Jk, Jk, I lean on the horn to let individual know that was too close. Well they stop their car halfway blocking my lane and the individual hops out of the car, he starts doing his little limp leg jig towards my vehicle and I'm watching the position of his arms and hands and nothing is triggering any motions for a weapon that I could tell. About halfway to my vehicle his friend jumps out, his body language to me, is that of a supporter because his friend jumps out. As canadian number 1 gets right up to my mirror and pull away having to maneuver around his sweet ride and along I go.

And go!....

FYI: I have a Sig 226 in between the seats ready to engage.

umm...engage? lol

I'd say put your gun up for a bit and rethink the way you carry yourself mentally in public. Everything I read could have been avoided, the situation was so FAR from needing a gun its silly.

**BamaAlum97** · 01-07-2013, 02:01 PM

Did the other driver learn the lesson you taught him with your horn?

**kevin40_2001** · 01-07-2013, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by MrShooter

umm...engage? lol

I'd say put your gun up for a bit and rethink the way you carry yourself mentally in public. Everything I read could have been avoided, the situation was so FAR from needing a gun its silly.

^^This.......not even close to a situation where you should bring the firearm into play. It doesn't hurt to be ready, however. Lock the doors and then if they engage the vehicle you make a call.

**Buzzdraw** · 01-07-2013, 03:14 PM

The obnoxious dude lacked the means to present a deadly force threat to you. The lack of ability was there too. They did not present imminent danger of a deadly force threat, so you could not respond with deadly force.

The smartest thing you did was to put your foot on the accelerator and leave the scene. Problem averted by bugging out.

**FullAuto** · 01-07-2013, 04:45 PM

canadian.... why do I think you aren't commenting on his french accent?

**93 FOX** · 01-07-2013, 07:48 PM

Seriously?

**david04** · 01-07-2013, 09:10 PM

Too many people think a horn is for expressing your displeasure, when in fact it was only put there to warn other drivers of your presence when needed. After a close call of some sort is over, any horn use is wrong.
(No offense to OP)

**yukonjack** · 01-07-2013, 10:58 PM

You never should have hit the horn. There was no need for it.

**UnSafe** · 01-08-2013, 11:05 AM

Now, hang on a bit..

Just like the old fable/ parable/ saying/ whatever, about the frog sitting in a pot of water on a stove, slowly realizing that it's getting warm, then by the time it realizes it's too hot, it's too late... Now compress the time line and apply that concept of an rapidly escalating threat and the consequences of not realizing/reacting either fast enough or appropriately.

Guys- re read the OP's post. Using a horn to warn an oncoming vehicle that's failing to yield and turning into your path is the reason we have horns.

Now, consider the rapid sequence of events- Per the OP's description, I'm guessing it probably took 2-3 (?) sec for the vehicle to come at him, panic stop then other driver get out of his car in a threatening manner, then another occupant does the same. Going from relaxed/ distracted driving to "Oh Sh!t we're gonna hit" then trying to decide if you are facing a lethal threat, now two guys/ two decisions, look for weapons on or in someone's hands at night while looking for a clear path out is tough for anyone.

Ultimately, he broke away from the situation and no one was hurt, but when we read of shootings in the news, situations such as this are sometimes the back story to the actual shooting, be it "Armed thugs shoot man and women at intersection" or "Man shoots two armed/ unarmed men that descended upon his vehicle after near collision in an intersection". Could go either way.

Gas and a clear path of escape is ideal, but what if traffic or obstacles eliminate that option. What happens if the guy approaches your window? Do you wait for him to pound on it/ break it and attack you? Wait for him to pull a knife or pistol out? At what point does a rapid escalation of threat (though still no visible weapon) warrant pulling/ aiming and warning off or possibly shooting a person? Would it have been different if two "Thugs" descended upon a little old lady for her shopping cart blocking their exit from a grocery store? IIRC, in one of my past NRA mags, this happened and fearing for her life, she shot one of the two despite not seeing a firearm and was cleared by the DA and lauded for defending herself against the "attack" (Even though neither attacker actually made physical contact with her).

Easy to do the Monday morning QB thing here and calmly state what we "would" have done, but throw yourself in his seat for 10-20 sec and try to keep up with the pace of escalation, let alone think/ react ahead of it.

Come on froggie, no time to think, only time to do. Already too hot.