5 Clues that Training is Not Realistic

[chicane]

I understand your veiw of kydex being "easily broken" during a grapple-style encounter... But are you also saying that a adjustable tension kydex holster is easier to be dis-armed than a Milt Sparks?

I carry a Kytac IWB and I can adjust it much tighter than the VMII that I had before. I promise it is easier to get a glock 30 out of a VM2 than out of the Kytac.

Have you tried to break a C-tac or Kytac IWB holster? The ones with the flexiable leather connecting the holster to the clips? If so were you able to break them as easily as the fobus? In your opinion would they hold up to a linemen grabbing on them?

[J.P.]

I understand your veiw of kydex being "easily broken" during a grapple-style encounter... But are you also saying that a adjustable tension kydex holster is easier to be dis-armed than a Milt Sparks?

I carry a Kytac IWB and I can adjust it much tighter than the VMII that I had before. I promise it is easier to get a glock 30 out of a VM2 than out of the Kytac.

Have you tried to break a C-tac or Kytac IWB holster? The ones with the flexiable leather connecting the holster to the clips? If so were you able to break them as easily as the fobus? In your opinion would they hold up to a linemen grabbing on them?

Here's my take...

IWB Kydex is better than OWB Kydex because in the event of breakage you have the belt and waistband of the pants to help retain the gun.
I'm comfortable with most IWB Kydex designs,particularly CTAC.

It's not so much the actual designed retention capabilities but when you fall on a Kydex holster and it breaks,you can have ZERO retention at thAT POINT.
Additionally,when you grab and twist a gun in leather,it will not break.Some Kydex holsters can be broken by this method.

OWB Kydex is the big no-no,in my book....except for gun games, and I don't even use it for that anymore.

If it can be broken,mike will break it.
Hopefully he'll chime in and answer you question.

[chicane]

I wonder if our new Sponsor would donate a C-tac for this test? I think a C-tac would be really easy to crack if there is not a pistol in it. But with a pistol inside the holster, I really think it would hold up because the actual pistol is supporting the holster from crushing in.

If one did fail, I would have to guess it would be at the mounting points, Or the actual clips used to secure the holster.

[J.P.]

I wonder if our new Sponsor would donate a C-tac for this test? I think a C-tac would be really easy to crack if there is not a pistol in it. But with a pistol inside the holster, I really think it would hold up because the actual pistol is supporting the holster from crushing in.

If one did fail, I would have to guess it would be at the mounting points, Or the actual clips used to secure the holster.

You're forgetting about the gun-grab scenario.
The BG grabs the gun abd twists it.....holster cracks.

[IDtheTarget]

I must be backwards. I've got a leather IWB and Fobus kydex OWB. I prefer the kydex to the leather. I think it's because I have a pistol (glock) that doesn't have a safety, I prefer a holster that has a definite "click" when it is seated and that requires an intentional effort to draw it. I haven't personally handled a leather holster that had a detent retention system.

Maybe it's just me, but when I have a pistol whose only safety is "not pulling the trigger", I want to have utmost confidence that the trigger is always covered and can't accidentally become uncovered...

[Michael Brown]

?ux|hicane]I understand your veiw of kydex being "easily broken" during a grapple-style encounter... But are you also saying that a adjustable tension kydex holster is easier to be dis-armed than a Milt Sparks?

I carry a Kytac IWB and I can adjust it much tighter than the VMII that I had before. I promise it is easier to get a glock 30 out of a VM2 than out of the Kytac.

Have you tried to break a C-tac or Kytac IWB holster? The ones with the flexiable leather connecting the holster to the clips? If so were you able to break them as easily as the fobus? In your opinion would they hold up to a linemen grabbing on them?[/QUOTE]

I think kydex IWB is just fine. The CTAC is a great carry holster.

My dislike of kydex is generally relegated to the OWB variety which is chosen because the user has a pre-conceived notion that speed out of the holster is the primary virtue of a concealed carry pieice. This is where the gun games like IDPA/IPSC have done a tremendous disservice to those interested in self-protection. Timing, not time, is the primary consideration in close quarters.

Yes, we have broken a CTAC before but that does not change my opinion that it still does what is required of a good holster and if I wore a kydex holster, it would be my first choice.

Michael Brown

[Michael Brown]

I must be backwards. I've got a leather IWB and Fobus kydex OWB. I prefer the kydex to the leather. I think it's because I have a pistol (glock) that doesn't have a safety, I prefer a holster that has a definite "click" when it is seated and that requires an intentional effort to draw it. I haven't personally handled a leather holster that had a detent retention system.

Maybe it's just me, but when I have a pistol whose only safety is "not pulling the trigger", I want to have utmost confidence that the trigger is always covered and can't accidentally become uncovered...

I'm afraid I don't quite understand this "problem"........

Michael Brown

[Robbo]

I must be backwards. I've got a leather IWB and Fobus kydex OWB. I prefer the kydex to the leather. I think it's because I have a pistol (glock) that doesn't have a safety, I prefer a holster that has a definite "click" when it is seated and that requires an intentional effort to draw it. I haven't personally handled a leather holster that had a detent retention system.

Maybe it's just me, but when I have a pistol whose only safety is "not pulling the trigger", I want to have utmost confidence that the trigger is always covered and can't accidentally become uncovered...

I understand what you are saying, but I have found with a quality leather holster they are usually so tight (speaking from what I've found with Don Hume, Milt Sparks & Alessi holsters) I wouldn't be worried about the gun slipping up inadvertantly. I had to stretch mine when I got it (can be done by placing the firearm in a freezer bag, or sock then inserting into holster and leaving for a few days) just so I could get the gun in w/o it moving the slide. After that the holster still grips the gun very tightly.

Rob

[IDtheTarget]

I must be backwards. I've got a leather IWB and Fobus kydex OWB. I prefer the kydex to the leather. I think it's because I have a pistol (glock) that doesn't have a safety, I prefer a holster that has a definite "click" when it is seated and that requires an intentional effort to draw it. I haven't personally handled a leather holster that had a detent retention system.

Maybe it's just me, but when I have a pistol whose only safety is "not pulling the trigger", I want to have utmost confidence that the trigger is always covered and can't accidentally become uncovered...

I'm afraid I don't quite understand this "problem"........
Michael Brown

Sorry, I was being slightly sarcastic, with regards to the guys who were basically stating that kydex was a "very bad thing [tm]" in a "real world situation[tm]". I prefer kydex holsters and was pointing out why, in my own, unique confusing way.

[NikatKimber]

Yes, we have broken a CTAC before but that does not change my opinion that it still does what is required of a good holster and if I wore a kydex holster, it would be my first choice.

Michael Brown

Curious as to how you broke the CTAC? I have just aquired one, and I like it a lot more than I thought I would like kydex. and yes, the gun comes out like greased lightning which I can't say about any of my leather holsters... almost too fast, if held upside down the gun does NOT stay in.

[Michael Brown]

Curious as to how you broke the CTAC? I have just aquired one, and I like it a lot more than I thought I would like kydex. and yes, the gun comes out like greased lightning which I can't say about any of my leather holsters... almost too fast, if held upside down the gun does NOT stay in.

One of the rivets and clips broke during a struggle for the gun on the ground while it was still in the holster.

The CTAC I will adjust muzzle tension I believe, although I could be wrong. That should solve the problem of the gun coming out if held upside down.

IMO if the gun falls out when held upside down by the holster, it has an inadequate level of passive retention.

Michael Brown

[J.P.]

Yep,the CTAC has two retention screws.

[J.P.]

Mike,have you ever seen the snaps on a Milt Sparks holster break or be sheared off?

[NikatKimber]

thanks! i need to do that then *tighten it* it really worried me when I pulled the holster *with gun* off the couch and the gun came out when i held it upside down.

[NikatKimber]

so just one rivet and clip broke? then the other clip was still holding the holster in place too, right? while not great, I would think that would be acceptable, especially since the gun remained in the holster too.