Post Your Training Experiences: Read the Rules Before Posting

[F16mickey]

Close Quarter Tactics Review

I took the Close Quarters Tactics course taught by the Praesidium Group. For those of you who carry a gun and only practice at the shooting range you NEED to take this course. This course opened my eyes to the real world of self defense. I was so impressed with this training that I decided to write a review of the class so that some of you who are sitting on the fence will take this course.

This course started out with a four hour block on edged weapons. This showed the importance of an accessible small fixed blade knife. It also showed how to keep some distance between you and your would be assailant and what kind of clues baddies tend to give before they strike.

The next day we started working on hand to hand techniques, these are not the types of techniques that are designed to win contests. These techniques are something that is designed to keep you from getting knocked out or knocked down and allow you to get enough control of the conflict to go to weapons or give you enough room to get away from the situation.

We also learned to shoot at extremely close range. You would think that close range shooting would be easy but guess again. If you don’t have your body aligned right and the weapon in the right position you could possibly miss and turn your weapon into our weapon (as in your adversary gets a hold on your weapon).

After several reps of these techniques we went on to using these techniques against a live adversary. The person you are going up against is in a full body suit so there is no need to go “half speed” and you are given a simmuntion firing training weapon and are allowed to use training knives in the scenarios. This is as close as most anyone is going to get to the real thing without serious injury or death.

As night fell we switched gears and learned proper flashlight usage techniques. We also integrated the pistol into the flashlight usage. After a live fire drill using the flashlight we left the range for a little off site training. The scenario consisted of a dark alley, possible multiple adversaries and possible shoot/no shoot possibilities.

The final day of training focused on the usage of cover and movement as it relates to the real world. We also spent time on weapons retention techniques that were useful against both zombie and non zombie attackers alike. Overall this class was a real eye-opener for me. What I learned from this class was about 99% of the things that I thought I would do in a confrontation was not going to work well in the real world. If you are looking for a class that is going to make you the next IDPA/IPSC super shooter this is not for you. But if you are looking for a course that will help you successfully defend yourself in the real world this is definitely for you.

[J.P.]

Good review!
Thanks for posting.

[YukonGlocker]

Thanks for the review. It is this kind of info that makes gun forums worth while.

[TulsaDave]

I also attended the CQT class, and would like to second what Mickey said. What sets this class apart is that it teaches simple techniques designed to work under stress, and then runs you through force-on-force scenarios to teach you to operate under stress.

When you are in a fight, your adrenaline level rises and you lose your fine motor skills. Suddenly that precisely targeted round kick or that complex but very painful wrist lock won't work, because you just can't remember how at the critical moment. You may think this won't happen to you; but I have studied the martial arts for a long time and believe me, it happens. You'd also be amazed how easy it is to forget to breathe in a fight. The unarmed techniques that Mike and Brandon teach do not rely on fine motor skills or precise targeting, so you can actually use them when the chips are down.

Once you have learned some knife, unarmed, and close range shooting techniques, you move on to the force-on-force drills. This is about as close to a real fight as you should ever hope to get IMHO. There is a world of difference between punching half speed, half force with a training partner in a gym, and trying to get same-side arm control so you can draw your handgun with an attacker who is screaming death threats and punching you in the head. It is HARD to remember even simple techniques, your mind gets stuck in Orientation mode, bacause the situation changes too fast to decide what to do. It is HARD to keep yourself from reflexively drawing the gun too early in the fight (a real good way to get shot with your own gun). It is HARD to remember to breathe, so that after twenty seconds you are gasping like you just ran a marathon. If the first time you ever experience these things is in a real life situation, you need to be extremely lucky and probably a hell of a lot bigger than your opponent. Or OPPONENTS.

The first few times I ran force on force drills were depressing and disturbing for me. If those fights had been the real thing, I would have lost and probably died. But now I am learning to function under stress, and techniques are starting to work for me. This is a HUGE confidence builder. If you are the typical armed citizen, you are NOT ready to win a criminal assault until you have taken a reality based force on force training class like Praesidium Group's CQT class. [Not to burst any bubbles, but we all read the NRA Armed Citizen columns right? Ever notice that most of the shootings we hear about occur when someone kills a burglar or home invader in their own home? You don't often hear of an armed citizen shooting a bad guy who criminally assaults them out in the public domain. This is because the good guys usually lose in that situation.] There were two Afghanistan combat vets who took the class this past weekend, and even they learned a lot and were pleased with the class.

I sincerely believe that I was not ready to carry a weapon outside the home until I took this class. Take it, you'll be glad you did. Us Okies are very very lucky to have training resources like TDSA and Praesidium Group locally.

Thanks again to Marshall for hosting the class, to Mike and Brandon for teaching, and especially to Brandon and Trooper Stacy who took a whole lot of elbows to the head, knees to the crotch, and simunitions bullets (Ow!) everywhere over the course of the weekend. Good times!

[tacmedic]

My wife and I also took this course. We were looking for some weapons retention training before she started to carry concealed. What we got was a class that should be mandatory for all who carry a gun, be it citizen concealed carry or as a LE professional.

Carrying as a citizen comes with responsibilities, and I don't say this lightly when I say IF YOU ARE CARRYING WITHOUT THIS TYPE OF REALITY BASED FORCE ON FORCE TRAINING YOU ARE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE AND A LIABILITY TO YOURSELF AND YOUR LOVED ONES!!!

Now I know that comes as a real kick in the nutz to many of us manly shooting men with our manly shooting egos but it simply is the truth. I have had military training (to include Special Forces training), law enforcement training (as a reserve deputy and SWAT Team Paramedic) and I am dumbfounded that none of my previous training covered this stuff. SCARY!!! I'll be the first to admit that I am probably just an average shooter, but I believe in the motto train like you fight. And both of us now have MANY new skills (mental, tactical, shooting, using edged weapons, and hand to hand) to ensure we survive to go home if we're ever the victims of a criminal assault and isn't that what really matters.

As seasoned law enforcement officers they help you understand the nature and tactics of your enemy which is vital. And what they teach you works, my wife is 115lbs soaking wet and has never had any martial arts training yet she was able to repeatedly use what she learned effectively against much larger opponents in real force on force training scenarios. We were so impressed that we are going to join the training group so that we can continue to learn.

My deepest gratitude to Mike, Brandon, Eric, and Marshall. They gave 110% in teaching and in taking shots and rounds as the bad guys. When they have their next course you better sign up fast...because everyone at this class said repeatedly they were taking it again!

A special KUDOS to Marshall who is a gifted firearms instructor. He hosted this training not being afraid to bring in other experts and expand upons his own knowledge and abilities as well as his students. That is the mark of a true professional and the type of instructor I want to train with! And to Brandon who my wife and I have dubbed the ballistics crash test dumby. He took many a licking and kept on ticking without a single complaint.

[Michael Brown]

There should be some video of the course up here soon.

Michael Brown

[kgull85]

Will the course in October have the edged weapons training the night before like this one did?

[Michael Brown]

Will the course in October have the edged weapons training the night before like this one did?

Yes.

Michael Brown

[tacmedic]

Just got a DVD with some of the highlights from the CQT class.

I love watching the groundfighting scenario of my wife getting control of the situation and putting 4 rounds of simmunition in the back of the BG's (Brandon's) head!!!

I'm telling you, if you carry YOU GOTTA TAKE THIS CLASS!

Thanks again to Mike, Brandon, Marshall, and Eric. It was truely an awesome experience. Looking forward to training with all of you again.

[kgull85]

There should be some video of the course up here soon.

Michael Brown

It's been like 5 days already, where's the freakin videos?

I would really like to see some of them. Might help me convince the wife that I "can't afford not to" (I'm thinking of tradmarking that line) take the class.

[Michael Brown]

At the request of a couple members I am posting this sticky as an opportunity for members to discuss their training experiences.

I would like to confine this thread to trainers that either:

1) Are based in Oklahoma

2) Visit Oklahoma on a regular basis (i.e. Tom Givens, John Farnam)

Any others please start a different thread.

The rules will be:

1) Post only your own direct experiences. No rumors or second hand stories.

2) Post only factual information. If you post something that can be proven to be false and/or malicious, your ability to post in the Training and Self-Defense forums will be restricted.

3) You may offer constructive criticism regarding a training experience but you must provide examples. No drive-by sound bites or one-liners. This thread will only be for intelligent discussion.

Enjoy.

Michael Brown

[tacmedic]

Okay I guess I'll go first but most of you who read any of my post can guess what I'm gonna say.

To qualify my opinion here's a little background about me so you'll know I'm not totally full of BS. Been shooting all my life, no really I drew down on that sorry doctor who tried to spank me after I was born. ha ha No really I spent 10 year in the Army both active and reserve. Nine of it was in Special Forces first as a commo guy then as a medic and finally as a medic instructor at one of our clinical proficiency sites (Gallup IHS Hospital). Special Forces medics, SEAL corpmen, and Air Force Pararescumen all attend all or some portion of the 18 Delta course (Special Operations Medic Course) at Ft. Bragg. Gallup was the premier clinical training site in its day and we often had Dev Group and Operation Detachment Delta guys come out and bone up their medical skills while ramping up for a deployment. The Colonel who was the OIC at Gallup loved to shoot and I had the opportunity to shoot with these guys quite often during that time. While there I also volunteered as a reserve sheriff's deputy and medic for the SWAT team. Now I'm not claiming to be a great shooter I'm just telling you what experiences I have had to compare the guys I'm rating here against.

The Defensive Shooting Academy of Tulsa (TDSA)
Marshall Luton has one of the most impressive schools I have ever been too. He is an incredible shooter but is an even more gifted instructor. His enthusiasm and love of shooting is contagious. Hell, he'd have Diane Fienstein (sp?) converted to a gun enthusiest if she ever took one of his classes. Marshall has matured enough as a shooter and instructor that he clearly has no ego issues and nothing to prove while on the range. This means when you take his classes his focus is about you and your performance. He never claims to be the best or know it all and he has put together a brilliant group of instructors who's talents are in some ways superior to his own which he will readily tell you. Eric Fuson, Eric Stacy, Shane Richards, Curt Nichols, Billy Smith, Travis Foster, Pat Harker, and Vince O'neill are amazing. They continually work to improve themselves and their courses never ceasing to be dynamic and open minded in their approach. They got both my wife and daughter shooting to a level where they could ace any military or law enforcement course. I highly recommend taking any of their classes!

The Praesidium Group
When I asked Marshall where to find realistic and workable weapons retention training for my wife to carry concealed safely he went above and beyond by not only recommending training with Mike Brown and Brandon Bennett of The Praesidium Group he hosted one of their CQT (Close Quaters Tactics) courses this May. Not only did we learn weapons retention skills we learned tactics, edged weapons skills, psychological tools, the nature and contexts of criminal assaults, weapons access and use at extreme close range, night fire and flashlight techniques, as well as how we would be able to perform in a real situation through stress innoculation with live simmunitions training. This class was so awesome my wife insisted we join their monthly training group, to include our daughter, and to take the course again. I agree completely!!!

Looking over my past military and law enforcement training I am both dumbfounded and a little disturbed that none of this was incorperated into it. Major advancements are occuring in training and its because of dedicated experienced professionals like those above who are pioneering the way, challanging old ideas, and putting it to the test by suiting up and going at it 110% to see if it will really work or not.

I cannot give a strong enough recommendation for these guys. I served with some of the finest professional soldiers in the world, where the saying we had of 'you got my back and I got yours,' wasn't ever taken lightly. Thanks to TDSA and The Praesidium Group I am telling you now I'd go anywhere confidently knowing my wife had my back.

[38Super]

Will ditto what Tacmedic says about TDSA Tulsa. Have taken one class from Marshall and the gang there. Brian Hill, Curt Nichols and Pat Harker and the rest of them really want you to learn. Wonderful experience and came away with a better understanding of my gun and what proper training can do for you.

Have also had the opportunity of taking a one day class with Matt Mclearn(now with the US Shooting Academy in Tulsa) and also took a one day class from the late Steve Broom. Both of these classes were geared more towards competitive shooting.

If you have the opportunity to take a class from TDSA or Matt, JUMP AT IT.

What I have learned, may not always show at a match, but what matters is that you do learn something and enjoy our sport more.

Have not had the opportunity to take a class from Mike Brown yet but it is in the future plans.

[Kiyot]

I'd really like to hear something about the training classes that they have at H&H or maybe somewhere else here in OKC. The ones I see at TDSA or by MB are 2 day classes while H&H's are only 4 hours, but there are 5 levels of courses there which may end up equalling that of the 2 day courses after all is said and done. Thanks!

[XRF]

I have taken TDSAs AP Level 1 twice. Outstanding course with outstanding instructors. I have attended C.L.E.E.Ts firearms training for reserve officers and it is the only "training" I can compare to Marshall's product. TDSA got me off high center and made me a better than average shooter. Marshall will be the first to tell you that what he teaches is a "a way" not "the way". You can take it if it works and leave it if it doesn't. A great teaching attitude. Well worth the time and money. He has the gift of teaching.