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The Water Cooler
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Metformin VS Berberine
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<blockquote data-quote="tRidiot" data-source="post: 3200986" data-attributes="member: 9374"><p>There have been a few foreign studies, and a couple of retrospective reviews that suggest it can be helpful, one I saw showed it's superiority to metformin, but I didn't read through the whole study to get the nitty gritty on their methodology yet. I would say it looks promising, but also several studies claimed there were absolutely zero side effects.</p><p></p><p>Let's face it, folks, when you give people a placebo, there are still reported side effects. We would need real, solid, high volume studies over longer term and much more controlled conditions to really say this is anything special. It's like the CBD and THC proponents - there are lots of anecdotal stories, but no serious proof because no real, good studies have been done that showed any <strong>repeatable </strong>results. And the whole "non-inferiority" aspect and the need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt there are no side effects is practically impossible to meet these days, unless you've got a multi-billion dollar industry behind you.</p><p></p><p>Had this discussion with a woman the other day who quit her anti-platelet therapy she was on to prevent stroke in favor of a pine bark extract pill billed as an "artery cleanser"... because she saw a flyer that said it worked. Never mind the literally HUNDREDS of professionally-designed and -executed studies we have proving her other medicine worked - she stuck with the pine bark and decided to roll her dice and take her chances. That's a significant risk, in my opinion, but it's her choice.</p><p></p><p>Berberine may work somewhat for some things. We use lots of plant extracts in medicines these days. Like I said, some indications suggest so, but as for safety, we have zero data. Don't fool yourself that just because something is from a plant that it is harmless. Otherwise, well... good luck.</p><p></p><p><edit> Oh, and the biggest retrospective study I could find had a total of I think 14 studies covering a total of like 2500 patients over a number of years. Very small scale stuff, but it seemed like it had helped some. Important to note, though, no one knows how, at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tRidiot, post: 3200986, member: 9374"] There have been a few foreign studies, and a couple of retrospective reviews that suggest it can be helpful, one I saw showed it's superiority to metformin, but I didn't read through the whole study to get the nitty gritty on their methodology yet. I would say it looks promising, but also several studies claimed there were absolutely zero side effects. Let's face it, folks, when you give people a placebo, there are still reported side effects. We would need real, solid, high volume studies over longer term and much more controlled conditions to really say this is anything special. It's like the CBD and THC proponents - there are lots of anecdotal stories, but no serious proof because no real, good studies have been done that showed any [B]repeatable [/B]results. And the whole "non-inferiority" aspect and the need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt there are no side effects is practically impossible to meet these days, unless you've got a multi-billion dollar industry behind you. Had this discussion with a woman the other day who quit her anti-platelet therapy she was on to prevent stroke in favor of a pine bark extract pill billed as an "artery cleanser"... because she saw a flyer that said it worked. Never mind the literally HUNDREDS of professionally-designed and -executed studies we have proving her other medicine worked - she stuck with the pine bark and decided to roll her dice and take her chances. That's a significant risk, in my opinion, but it's her choice. Berberine may work somewhat for some things. We use lots of plant extracts in medicines these days. Like I said, some indications suggest so, but as for safety, we have zero data. Don't fool yourself that just because something is from a plant that it is harmless. Otherwise, well... good luck. <edit> Oh, and the biggest retrospective study I could find had a total of I think 14 studies covering a total of like 2500 patients over a number of years. Very small scale stuff, but it seemed like it had helped some. Important to note, though, no one knows how, at all. [/QUOTE]
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Metformin VS Berberine
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