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The Water Cooler
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<blockquote data-quote="Jefpainthorse" data-source="post: 1796602" data-attributes="member: 11766"><p>the way I see it..the way they wrote 1733 eliminates the Terry Stop trap --- or that was the intent.</p><p></p><p>Terry Stops get a bad rap - the cop's can read a crystal ball and stop you if they THINK your up to no good.</p><p>Sometimes thats good police work- but it can be abused.</p><p></p><p>The other OC states have this problem. Many allow OC and that's the way you can carry legally without a CCW card from the state.</p><p></p><p>So the officers sees a person strapped... contacts... and asks for ID ( like DL). The carrier asks "am I arrested, what am I doing wrong?" and refuses to surrender ID. The officer may be on his way to a shots fired call and the guy may be the shooter (good Terry Stop) or he could be a guy minding his manners packing a gun legally (bad Terry Stop).</p><p></p><p>Most of these show downs end up in a circular argument. A smart citizen may simply elect to walk away. "If your not detaining me or arresting me- have a nice day". OK law has always short circuited that...you have to show a card.</p><p></p><p>Now--- if an agency gets the reputation of pulling people out with CARDS over and OVER again... maybe that's systematic harrasment and a AR violaton--- but that would take some court time to prove. I we are eating and 4 cops walk in over the hour and each checks us... that may be legal . but is it right?</p><p></p><p>We have always had to inform CC here... and I think the logic was to extend what we always did to what we are about to do. To protect A4 rights...if you can produce a SDA Card and ID on demand-that officer cannot go any further unless he has probable cause that connects you to a crime.</p><p></p><p>Read the law.. they don't leave much to argue about as long as everybody does what it says.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jefpainthorse, post: 1796602, member: 11766"] the way I see it..the way they wrote 1733 eliminates the Terry Stop trap --- or that was the intent. Terry Stops get a bad rap - the cop's can read a crystal ball and stop you if they THINK your up to no good. Sometimes thats good police work- but it can be abused. The other OC states have this problem. Many allow OC and that's the way you can carry legally without a CCW card from the state. So the officers sees a person strapped... contacts... and asks for ID ( like DL). The carrier asks "am I arrested, what am I doing wrong?" and refuses to surrender ID. The officer may be on his way to a shots fired call and the guy may be the shooter (good Terry Stop) or he could be a guy minding his manners packing a gun legally (bad Terry Stop). Most of these show downs end up in a circular argument. A smart citizen may simply elect to walk away. "If your not detaining me or arresting me- have a nice day". OK law has always short circuited that...you have to show a card. Now--- if an agency gets the reputation of pulling people out with CARDS over and OVER again... maybe that's systematic harrasment and a AR violaton--- but that would take some court time to prove. I we are eating and 4 cops walk in over the hour and each checks us... that may be legal . but is it right? We have always had to inform CC here... and I think the logic was to extend what we always did to what we are about to do. To protect A4 rights...if you can produce a SDA Card and ID on demand-that officer cannot go any further unless he has probable cause that connects you to a crime. Read the law.. they don't leave much to argue about as long as everybody does what it says. [/QUOTE]
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