Tulsa PD shoots unarmed black man

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RidgeHunter

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some good points there. i'll kiss a dead dog's ass if her first guess isn't what happened.

She accidentally shot him because she heard someone fire a taser next to her. Many times when a person hears a taser or weapon fire next to them, their reflexes cause them to shoot whatever is in their hand at the time. Obviously this is problematic for her defense. One of the main gun safety rules taught to officers is that you are to “Keep your finger off the trigger and outside of the trigger guard until you intend to fire!” This is why you do that. If you hear any noise with your finger on the trigger, a person is likely to fire.

remember we are gun people and lots of gun people are cops but not lots of cops are gun people.

problematic for her defense is right. i haven't seen enough to convict if i was on that jury, but i would hazard a guess the prosecution has plenty of stuff to gather to counter her 'so afraid argument' by the time trial comes. the 13 seconds she let him stand there after the fist and only shot is a start. occam's razor dudes. i'd honestly rather have 2 racist cops than 1 incompetent cop. she had her finger in the guard when it should have been out and we made international news for it.
 

Glocktogo

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some good points there. i'll kiss a dead dog's ass if her first guess isn't what happened.



remember we are gun people and lots of gun people are cops but not lots of cops are gun people.

problematic for her defense is right. i haven't seen enough to convict if i was on that jury, but i would hazard a guess the prosecution has plenty of stuff to gather to counter her 'so afraid argument' by the time trial comes. the 13 seconds she let him stand there after the fist and only shot is a start. occam's razor dudes. i'd honestly rather have 2 racist cops than 1 incompetent cop. she had her finger in the guard when it should have been out and we made international news for it.
Sympathetic response has been my guess since the beginning and it still is.

I'm conflicted on finger placement. If you're pointed in on someone who's hand is concealed from view and your finger is outside the guard, they can produce a weapon and fire before you can respond and fire. Action beats reaction and what not. She may have very much believed firing on him before he could shoot was inevitable, and in that case finger on the trigger is correct. The problem comes in that he never got to the point of producing a weapon, or anything remotely resembling a weapon. He never pulls a hand away from the vehicle and he never turns towards them. She shot well before justification was established and based on when she fired in relation to the taser firing, sympathetic response is the most plausible theory. Had he made an aggressive move towards them with a metallic object retrieved from the vehicle, more than a single shot would be the correct response. You wouldn't risk stopping a lethal threat from a gun at close range on a single shot.
 

OKCHunter

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some good points there. i'll kiss a dead dog's ass if her first guess isn't what happened.



remember we are gun people and lots of gun people are cops but not lots of cops are gun people.

problematic for her defense is right. i haven't seen enough to convict if i was on that jury, but i would hazard a guess the prosecution has plenty of stuff to gather to counter her 'so afraid argument' by the time trial comes. the 13 seconds she let him stand there after the fist and only shot is a start. occam's razor dudes. i'd honestly rather have 2 racist cops than 1 incompetent cop. she had her finger in the guard when it should have been out and we made international news for it.
A lot of truth in your comment.
 

donner

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Is the 'fear' of a gun being enough to elicit deadly force not give the conceal/carry crowd pause? I mean we've talked about whether the cops arrived amped up, and how fear of 'maybe' there is a gun is enough to shoot.

so, what happens if they tell you to raise your arms (which you do) and you reveal an actual gun?

I'm not trying to play devils advocate here, but if the fear that 'he might have a gun' is enough to shoot, what does that mean if you are in the situation where you *do* have a gun that they see?
 
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retrieverman

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Does the 'fear' of a gun being enough to elicit deadly force not give the conceal/carry crowd pause? I mean we've talked about whether the cops arrived amped up, and how fear of 'maybe' there is a gun is enough to shoot.

so, what happens if they tell you to raise your arms (which you do) and you reveal an actual gun?

I'm not trying to play devils advocate here, but if the fear that 'he might have a gun' is enough to shoot, what does that mean if you are in the situation where you *do* have a gun that they see?

There have been enough of these types of shootings that I keep my wallet on the dash of my truck in plain sight and almost never carry while driving. If I get shot by a cop, they're going to have to concoct a pretty good story to make it justifiable.
 

Poke78

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Way past "a good read" as I'd say anybody that is honestly searching for an understanding of how cops think in these circumstances needs to read this. The honesty in this piece is nearly breath-taking because it treats all options as worthy of discussion and consideration. Those who proclaim themselves "journalists" ought to read this as a case study on how to treat a controversial subject with an even-handed approach that lets the reader weigh the information. This approach gives the detective's conclusions weight and makes them worthy of consideration. I intend to spread this article link widely to anyone who is willing to consider an in-depth evaluation and a broad presentation with "cop flavor."
 

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