Execution or defending his home? You make the call

[71buickfreak]

The man said some pretty disgusting things, that is absolute. I just don't know if murder is the right charge. Voluntary manslaughter I can see, but murder? He was the victim of a home invasion, defended himself with lethal force. The problem comes in the "finishing off". How many times has it been said that dead men tell no tales? This guy's biggest problem (like ersland) is his big mouth. The guy definitely screwed up. The fact that he didn't call the cops for a day is fairly damning, though he might have gotten scared and wanted to lawyer up (which he did) before calling the cops. I just don't think life in prison , or even 5-10 is right. In the end, he gets punished for being the victim of a crime. You push a man to the brink like these kids did (they are likely the ones who had broken in before), and when it comes to a head, somebody is going to get hurt. You get shot and you start laughing at the guy? That is asking for an up close and personal ending. Stress does bad things to a person's mind.

 

[stick4]

This story line has too many gray areas to be taken on face value for me. Why would the girl walk down the stairs after the boy got shot? What proof is there that they broke into the house? Maybe waiting till the next day was b/c the guy needed to arrange his story and create the break in scene.

 

[FullAuto]

If he'd have taken care of business with the first shot each, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[10Seconds]

My thoughts:

1. If you are involved in a shooting, self-defense or otherwise. NEVER talk about it without your lawyer present and having received counsel from them first. This guy is in a much, much more difficult position than he would be had he not talked to the police.

2. The first shooting seems based on the known facts to be potentially justifiable, if the second shot, shooting at the bottom of the stairs, the assailant could have been moving, he still felt threatened, etc.

3. The fact that he sat back down after the first shooting is not a problem for the defense. At that point he has no way of knowing how many attacker may be present, if they heard the first shots, if they are now coming down to get him, etc. He is still hiding out in the basement of his own home and likely had no avenue of escape, except though the house and thus putting himself in greater danger.

4. The second shooting is where he will be convicted. He first shoots the invader coming down the stairs, so we are still ok. The shot didnt killer her and she started laughing at Smith. So he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver" Here too, he could have been ok, if the invader is healthy enough to laugh, they are still a threat. Firing multiple times with a .22, well, most would as it has low stopping power. BUT and this is the conviction but, he dragged her next to Brady (thus if he can do this, the threat is neutralized), and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium" which he described as "a good clean finishing shot" and he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."

The fact that per his own words to investigators, he knew the threat was past, but decided to kill invader 2 with a "finishing shot" even though he didnt "need to" gets him convicted absent jury nullification which doesn't seem likely with this guys mouth.

 

[milsurp2.0]

A good lawyer shold be able to get him off if he was burglarized before. If an old woman can sue over getting burned with coffee a burglar victim can claim temporary insanity or crime of passion type emotions. Basically he had PTSD from being burglarized and went off a little.

 

[uncle money bags]

My thoughts:

1. If you are involved in a shooting, self-defense or otherwise. NEVER talk about it without your lawyer present and having received counsel from them first. This guy is in a much, much more difficult position than he would be had he not talked to the police.

2. The first shooting seems based on the known facts to be potentially justifiable, if the second shot, shooting at the bottom of the stairs, the assailant could have been moving, he still felt threatened, etc.

3. The fact that he sat back down after the first shooting is not a problem for the defense. At that point he has no way of knowing how many attacker may be present, if they heard the first shots, if they are now coming down to get him, etc. He is still hiding out in the basement of his own home and likely had no avenue of escape, except though the house and thus putting himself in greater danger.

4. The second shooting is where he will be convicted. He first shoots the invader coming down the stairs, so we are still ok. The shot didnt killer her and she started laughing at Smith. So he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver" Here too, he could have been ok, if the invader is healthy enough to laugh, they are still a threat. Firing multiple times with a .22, well, most would as it has low stopping power. BUT and this is the conviction but, he dragged her next to Brady (thus if he can do this, the threat is neutralized), and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium" which he described as "a good clean finishing shot" and he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."

The fact that per his own words to investigators knew the threat was past, but decided to kill invader 2 with a "finishing shot" even though he didnt "need to" gets him convicted absent jury nullification which doesn't seem likely with this guys mouth.

This is why it is murder. He did the right and moral thing by stopping the threat but was in the wrong by " finishing" her if it was clear she was no longer a threat. Our famous Pharmacist made the same mistake, albeit to a lesser degree of ridiculousness. If it all went down as it has been reported and discussed I hope no OSA'ers who have supported this course of action do not have to revisit their words in court should they be involved in a similar situation.

 

[uncle money bags]

sorry repost

 

[HMFIC]

No. This guy's biggest problem isn't that he opened his mouth, it's that he crossed the line.

I'm gonna lay it out simple for you guys just like I did with Ersland...

IF you are predisposed to MURDERING someone because you can't control yourself, then you'd better seek some help right away.
IF you think it's cool to cross the line and turn into the bad guy just because you have the opportunity, then you'd better seek some help right away.

IF look at this for what it is and TRAIN your mind to react ahead of time in a different way, then you won't make the same mistakes that this guy did.

I'm really sorry the guy got robbed before... but he crossed the line into being one of the bad guys. It's plain and simple and you can offer as many excuses as you want for why he might have did it and how he might get off and how a judge might consider it justifiable under the circumstances, but the bottom line is that HE DID CROSS THE LINE.

Don't make the same mistake guys... train yourself to think and act the way you should under stress and you will react in the correct manner.

 

[beast1989]

I completely understand how you feel but the right to bear arms gives us the right to defend ourselves, it's not a license to kill.

71buickfreak would you really walk up to a downed individual and put the gun under their chin? Whether I'm in the moment or not I know I wouldn't do that. His actions were a bit sinister but given the circumstances I wouldn't give him more than a year or two prison time.

 

[6shooter]

One shot, one kill. Guy went overboard as I see it. Maybe stress in the moment but, excess of shooting both again and again. Just goes to show you , keep you mouth shut.