05/15/2022 Another Mass Shooting. This time at a California Church

[jakeman]

Okay, I surrender! I did not intend to insult anyone, so if I did, I humbly apologize. I completely agree that there just is no proper way to prevent these events. But, if we don't continue to discuss, and ideas, no matter how wrong they may be, we will never find potential improvements.

I don't know how we get there either, but if a troubled youngster threatens to shoot up a school there should be a method and process to make sure that they don't follow thru on their threats. I don't know how. I'm not that smart, but if they're telling you they're going to kill a bunch of people, we should believe them. If nothing else, making a terroristic threat is a crime. Let's do something with that.

 

[wawazat]

The shooters name should never be mentioned. Many seek notoriety because they are self hating losers.

Ive made a similar comment in the past. Wipe them from public knowledge. If their name was mentioned in a local paper when they graduated kindergarten, wipe it. It isn't the primary motivator for all of them, but the few that want to finally be "seen" would get the exact opposite and would have their name stricken from every ledger available to the public.

The video game argument, I believe, is valid in some instances and not in others. I grew up playing violent video games, but I also worked on a farm and hunted. Although it is not comparable to anyone with LE or military experience, hunting and running cattle exposes a person to a level of violence and Darwinism not experienced by the average person today. Nature and nurture both also play a huge role in what kind of impact our environment will have on us.

I have two heavy concerns with red flag laws and the way they would seem to be implemented. The first is it being weaponized to cause vindictive harm. The other is indirectly discouraging people from seeking mental health assistance out of fear their firearms could be taken. Without having an opportunity to represent/defend yourself against unlawful confiscation, how does a person keep their most fundamental rights against an overreaching government? If you give people the opportunity to represent/defend themselves, how do you act quickly enough to do any good?

My personal opinion is that we desperately need a readily available mental health system again. This is evident in the homeless population and prevalence of people feeling they have no other choice but to act out in the most violent and reprehensible manners. If someone was reported as being a danger to themselves or others, they could go in for a 2 (randomly selected number) day evaluation. Their firearms could stay in their home and secured (no confiscation), nothing would land on their legal record or penalties imposed (no violation of due process). They would just be evaluated by medical professionals. If further care was deemed necessary for the well being of the patient and for those around them, they would present a case to review boards to evaluate the method, duration, frequency of ongoing interaction and care.

My other thought is that humans, at our most basic animal levels, are not designed to live in these massive metroplexes with massive condo towers piled on top of each other. We are social, but we thrive on much smaller and more meaningful social circles. When we see hundreds or thousands of unknown faces every day, it makes it more difficult or less incentivized to know anyone on a meaningfully deep level. We get disconnected and isolated in a crowd of people which can be exacerbated by underlying mental illness/difficulties. It also cheapens the value we see in the people around us. It can be similar to having a couple of prime ribeyes in the freezer and being excited to eat them or having nothing but prime ribeyes in the freezer and being tired of even thinking about having to eat them all. I also think a lot of these woke movements are a symptom of population density approaching or surpassing harmful levels. As the crowd gets bigger, it takes more and more shocking qualities/actions to stand out in the crowd. Next thing you know, we are making up completely new and unfounded labels to attach to ourselves to try and find something that separates each of us from the masses.

Our society is ill, but the path of least resistance leads us further down the path to chronic illness. I am all but certain the treatment is inevitable and the longer it is delayed, the more unpleasant it will be.

 

[jakeman]

It can be similar to having a couple of prime ribeyes in the freezer and being excited to eat them or having nothing but prime ribeyes in the freezer and being tired of even thinking about having to eat them all.

If you find yourself in the latter perdiciment and seek relief, please shoot me a DM. I'm known as a great humanitiarian and pride myself on helping others.

 

[Glocktogo]

Okay, I surrender! I did not intend to insult anyone, so if I did, I humbly apologize. I completely agree that there just is no proper way to prevent these events. But, if we don't continue to discuss, and ideas, no matter how wrong they may be, we will never find potential improvements.

I think we've been discussing this for decades. I know I've been discussing it since the mid 80's (yeah, I'm that damn old and feel every year of it). The problem isn't discussing it. The problem is people who refuse to listen, when men of violence tell the fearful how to effectively address the issue.

Fearful people only have one tool in their toolbox. Their mouths. That's a double edged sword if ever there was one. Used recklessly, it cuts the intended target, anyone within earshot and more often than not, the speaker themselves. So many fearful people have been speaking for so long and not listening, there's no more oxygen in the room to discuss actual solutions. Let's not forget the fear mongers who prey on the fearful either. They've been hard at work all along, eroding our rights and furthering their dystopian agenda.

The phenomenon of mass shootings is cyclical. Yet gun access remains constant throughout. So why are "mass shootings" not constant? Simple, it has nothing to do with guns. It has FAR more to do with socioeconomic pressure, lack of community care and concern, and ineffective tax based solutions. When those three factors converge in the upper quadrant of the graph, mass shootings rise. It's also the exact same reason suicides and all other crimes of violence rise.

So which problem is the most existential crisis? The recent rise in mass shootings resulting in a few dozen deaths? Or over 100,000 overdose deaths in 2021 alone, of which over 70% are synthetic opioid deaths?

The answer is neither. They're both symptoms of an ill society. The existential crisis is the ill society. Fix the society and the side effects subside. The problem is the people with "power" have no control over that. Sure they contribute negatively to the conditions that create the illness, but they can't fix it. So they play a shell game of keeping people focused on the side effects, so they can keep consolidating power and wealth in their hands, regardless of whether the patient recovers, has long-term suffering, or dies outright.

There's no government fix for this problem. So every time someone brings up increased restrictions, all that does is increase the pressure. It may result in a short-term incremental improvement, but ultimately the net overall will be worse than doing nothing at all. Getting any lasting relief requires the one thing that takes everyone, fixing the ill society. Most people don't want to accept the responsibility that entails.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

I don't understand why we think a red flag will solve this. Unless the red flag allows someone to be locked up when they are flagged? If we're only taking away their guns, what prevents them from just getting another? I don't see how a person can support red flag and not support MUCH more restrictive gun laws across the board.

Exactly. That's the whole problem with banning anything. Cocaine and meth are "banned". But you can go pretty much anywhere and buy as much as your wallet can handle. If someone intent on doing harm doesn't have a gun they'll use something else...their hands, box cutters, vehicles, explosives, jumbo jets.

Does anyone actually believe that if we banned guns completely and rounded up every single gun in the country that it would stop mass killings? Seriously? You realize if that happened the only entity to have guns would be the government. Oh...but governments never commit mass killings against their own citizens, right?

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

So which problem is the most existential crisis? The recent rise in mass shootings resulting in a few dozen deaths? Or over 100,000 overdose deaths in 2021 alone, of which over 70% are synthetic opioid deaths?

That was my whole point with the drunk driver analogy...your example is even better. These drugs resulting in overdose deaths are illegal yet they're widely available to pretty anyone with the desire to get them.

We'd stop far, far more deaths if we "red flagged" drug users instead of gun owners.

But, like someone else said, drug users don't post the same threat to those in power than well-armed citizens do. So let's ***** and moan endlessly about "gun violence" and how many deaths (relatively few as compared to some other problems) "guns" cause each year. It's an extremely ignorant argument...but it works because we have, for the most part, an extremely ignorant society.

 

[montesa]

I think the notoriety they get is a real problem. It’s a particularly nasty sub human crime and I think it could help if these guys were hung publicly. I know it sounds barbaric but maybe if they know that’s what’s waiting for them.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

That was my whole point with the drunk driver analogy...your example is even better. These drugs resulting in overdose deaths are illegal yet they're widely available to pretty anyone with the desire to get them.

We'd stop far, far more deaths if we "red flagged" drug users instead of gun owners.

I agree with this completely. "Gun Violence" is the hot topic for the media (along with the abortion issue, for now) and there will be calls for more to be done. Drug deaths, DUI deaths, etc far outnumber any other cause but as we all know, those topics are "third rail" when discussions start.

I do appreciate all the "corrections" to my suggestions, but I'm already on the team, just looking for new arguments to give when the topic comes up in daily conversations.

 

[bink98xcab]

Public punishment in quick fashion would solve a lot of this. Most of these nuts know that the system is in their favor. If reality was in their face, they might possibly give it a second thought.

 

[BobbyV]

Some good info/recommendations here . . . .