SBR or SBS??

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

WhiteyMacD

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
60
Location
Mustang
Lot of arm chair ATF agent/lawyers here.

The point of me being interested is the fact the lower doesnt have a bore. On an AR, the lower is what is registered. From my understanding, if a lower was stamped under a certain cal it does not mean you cannot use uppers of other calibers.

You guys are making an assumption based on what you are reading. I want to know from someone who knows, clear cut.

What about the opposite. SBS registered shotgun, you put a sawed off rifled slug barrel on it? So your saying thats illegal unless I register it as a SBR as well?

:?
 

tyromeo55

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
4,762
Reaction score
1,338
Location
Tulsa
Lot of arm chair ATF agent/lawyers here...............

You guys are making an assumption based on what you are reading. I want to know from someone who knows, clear cut.........................



:?

Well, If your not going to take Dustin's answer (which I think is correct) then you going to have to break out the pad and paper and ask the ATF. When you find out please post here. =)
 

WhiteyMacD

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
60
Location
Mustang
Well, If your not going to take Dustin's answer (which I think is correct) then you going to have to break out the pad and paper and ask the ATF. When you find out please post here. =)

Doesnt matter THAT much to me.

But if someone wants to know, I wouldnt base my decision exclusively on the opinions/interpretations of OSA members. ;)
 

tyromeo55

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
4,762
Reaction score
1,338
Location
Tulsa
Doesnt matter THAT much to me.

But if someone wants to know, I wouldnt base my decision exclusively on the opinions/interpretations of OSA members. ;)
this is one of the smartest posts I've seen in a while. Is is hard to believe that someone would make such big decisions without doing a little research of their own.. I've looked my NFA book over and can not recall a direct answer to this question. A ruleing would be nice but seeing that I sold my home and don't even know where I'll live after I close. and I have no desire to own a 410 AR I'll wait to draft a letter.
 

WhiteyMacD

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
60
Location
Mustang
this is one of the smartest posts I've seen in a while. Is is hard to believe that someone would make such big decisions without doing a little research of their own.. I've looked my NFA book over and can not recall a direct answer to this question. A ruleing would be nice but seeing that I sold my home and don't even know where I'll live after I close. and I have no desire to own a 410 AR I'll wait to draft a letter.

LOL, understood.

Im not trying to be difficult. But the topic is interesting. Granted, I am looking at it from the reverse.

Say you have a .410 shotgun, you slap a rifled barrel (not that I have ever seen a rifled .410 barrel) on it. By using the same logic propsed in this thread, it should be legal to have a 16" barrel (note, this would not be a destructive device as NFA states DD only applies to barrels .50 in bore). However, if you read the NFA it could be interpreted that the firearm started as a shotgun so would be subject to the 18" rule (which I think is why you dont find < 18" barrels on a .410 (You would think with the rounds available in .410 that have recently coming out for HD, you would see a manufacturer release a .410ga rifled barrel firearm in a 16 - 18" barrel if the rifled truely negates the smooth bore property of being a shotgun).

Now, with all I have said. I am not saying its legal to do this, nor is it legal for a sub 18" AR upper chambered in .410 on a SBR'd lower. I am saying, none of us work for the ATF or are practicing lawyers who specialize in NFA law (and even if we did, I doubt there has been a case to set precedence). If someone is truely interested, ask the powers that be.

Now, Im not really interested in a .410 upper and my only interest in the subject is theoretical. Who knows, if I get bored, I might just write the letter to find out.

;)
 

WhiteyMacD

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
60
Location
Mustang
this is one of the smartest posts I've seen in a while. Is is hard to believe that someone would make such big decisions without doing a little research of their own.. I've looked my NFA book over and can not recall a direct answer to this question. A ruleing would be nice but seeing that I sold my home and don't even know where I'll live after I close. and I have no desire to own a 410 AR I'll wait to draft a letter.

LOL, understood.

Im not trying to be difficult. But the topic is interesting. Granted, I am looking at it from the reverse.

Say you have a .410 shotgun, you slap a rifled barrel (not that I have ever seen a rifled .410 barrel) on it. By using the same logic propsed in this thread, it should be legal to have a 16" barrel (note, this would not be a destructive device as NFA states DD only applies to barrels .50 in bore). However, if you read the NFA it could be interpreted that the firearm started as a shotgun so would be subject to the 18" rule (which I think is why you dont find < 18" barrels on a .410 (You would think with the rounds available in .410 that have recently coming out for HD, you would see a manufacturer release a .410ga rifled barrel firearm in a 16 - 18" barrel if the rifled truely negates the smooth bore property of being a shotgun).

Now, with all I have said. I am not saying its legal to do this, nor is it legal for a sub 18" AR upper chambered in .410 on a SBR'd lower. I am saying, none of us work for the ATF or are practicing lawyers who specialize in NFA law (and even if we did, I doubt there has been a case to set precedence). If someone is truely interested, ask the powers that be.

Now, Im not really interested in a .410 upper and my only interest in the subject is theoretical. Who knows, if I get bored, I might just write the letter to find out.

;)
 

Karat

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
626
Reaction score
0
Location
moore
You know I was wondering the same thing when I saw that thread about .410 uppers the other day...and thanks to Dustin I got atleast one of my ?s answered, why judge isn't a SBS...
 

Eric67

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
220
Reaction score
0
Location
Bethany
I am saying, none of us work for the ATF or are practicing lawyers who specialize in NFA law (and even if we did, I doubt there has been a case to set precedence). If someone is truely interested, ask the powers that be.

I couldn't agree more, I don't think (or at least hope) that anyone reading this takes this thread or any other like it as nothing more than it is, just us having a converstion about it and speculating what the correct interpretation is. I would never put my nuts in a vice over someting I didn't have definitive clarification on.

Good thread though.
 

WhiteyMacD

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
60
Location
Mustang
Wouldn't a 45 Long Colt barrell be the same?

Yeah a .410 rifled barrel is a 45LC. And that is my point, technically, based on the information here, wouldnt that now be a rifle and subject to the 16" minimum barrel length? But its not, because the firearm was manufactured as a shotgun, it still retains the 18" minimum. (as stated previously, this example cannot be considered a DD, as the bore is less than .50). Same could be said for a 20ga. Rifled 20ga barrel cannot be 16" although it is a rifled barrel.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom