In all honesty this breaks my heart ...

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chefrick72

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Well, you are the one who suggested I was ignorant on the matter, figured you must be an expert if you know enough to tell me I don't have a clue?? Now, you say you don't have an explanation, so, how do you know I'm wrong if you don't have the answer??

It's your contention that "initial bailout was very much needed to prevent a total collapse" that I call into question. I haven't seen any proof that there would have been a total collapse without the bailout?? I have heard some say that, but I have heard just the opposite from others.

I'm not sure that the nature of economic is as technical as some want us to believe. I believe much of it is like lawyer talk, purposely obtuse to confuse the masses and insure the need for their services! :rolleyes:

I concur. Economics is quite simple really.:teach:
 

_CY_

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never have I claimed to be an expert... but your comments including below clearly demonstrates where you stand on technical economic issues.

by the way... in no way shape or form is being ignorant of technical economic issues considered a negative. if it was... most of the general US population would fall into that group.

the only thing I claim is to know enough to realize what I don't know.

Well, you are the one who suggested I was ignorant on the matter, figured you must be an expert if you know enough to tell me I don't have a clue?? Now, you say you don't have an explanation, so, how do you know I'm wrong if you don't have the answer??

It's your contention that "initial bailout was very much needed to prevent a total collapse" that I call into question. I haven't seen any proof that there would have been a total collapse without the bailout?? I have heard some say that, but I have heard just the opposite from others.

I'm not sure that the nature of economic is as technical as some want us to believe. I believe much of it is like lawyer talk, purposely obtuse to confuse the masses and insure the need for their services! :rolleyes:
 

onearmedman

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Yes Sir, I do vote, I DID NOT vote for Obama. I'm also not going to depend on him to take care of me and mine, and I'm afraid that anyone that does will be greatly disapointed.

You are correct,sir! We are in a bad place at a bad time, when the ballot box may no longer be effective and other "box " options may have to be looked at...
 

Jefpainthorse

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Larry Summers is heading back to Harvard, Roemers quit a little while back and the buzz is that many other high level advisors will bail at the mid-term point.

Obamanomics has been a failure. I can't see policy salvaging the situation
 

TerryMiller

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This is how the stimulus works:

It is a slow day in the small Saskatchewan
town of DYSART, and streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit.

A tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, and lays
a $100 bill on the desk saying he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs to pick one for the night.

As soon as he walks upstairs, the
motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier,
the Co-op.

The guy at the Co-op takes the
$100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her "services" on credit.
The hooker rushes to the hotel
and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner.

The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the traveler will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves.

No one produced anything. No one earned anything... However, the whole town is now out of debt and now looks to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how a Stimulus package works.


With my extensive experience as a 64 year old, I must protest this theory. I contend that the stimulus ended with the hooker.

:blush:
 

boomerzz

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Bailout (for banks) is one thing, stimulus is another.

The bailout is an intervention to assist in solving a problem that was created by an intervention.

The bailout was definitely needed, but the blame is placed incorrectly... it's not some rich bank president who was at fault... lol It was the ruleset they were forced to live by, and them making loans without real money (which is the norm). This gives a large and complicated set of equations when it comes to money... it should just be made simple, like it used to be, then was changed, then was changed back, then changed back again in the history of our country. How about state run banks? That way they can fail and can be rated differently? oh... what an idea!


If you want people to spend more money, allow the private sector to create jobs. Anything you do that is not that will not work. Going more into debt to bail out failing companies to "keep jobs" does not work in the long run. Allowing taxes to raise on people who hire others doesn't work... even just scaring them into thinking they will have more bills will cause them not to hire (obamacare). Doing more debt spending does not give these businesses confidence to hire... bailing out their competitors with tax money does not help.

Government jobs don't create any tax revenue or good. They are a net loss, they will always be a net loss. Forever.

You don't have to spend other peoples money to "recover" an economy, you merely have to take less from the right people, and downsize yourself (if you are a government).

Do more research on the first depression, and the 80%+ income tax rate... Read about how they were just taking a bunch of wild ass guesses and it prolonged the depression for so many years. It sounds so familiar.
 

flatwins

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Bailout (for banks) is one thing, stimulus is another.

The bailout is an intervention to assist in solving a problem that was created by an intervention.

The bailout was definitely needed, but the blame is placed incorrectly... it's not some rich bank president who was at fault... lol It was the ruleset they were forced to live by, and them making loans without real money (which is the norm). This gives a large and complicated set of equations when it comes to money... it should just be made simple, like it used to be, then was changed, then was changed back, then changed back again in the history of our country. How about state run banks? That way they can fail and can be rated differently? oh... what an idea!


If you want people to spend more money, allow the private sector to create jobs. Anything you do that is not that will not work. Going more into debt to bail out failing companies to "keep jobs" does not work in the long run. Allowing taxes to raise on people who hire others doesn't work... even just scaring them into thinking they will have more bills will cause them not to hire (obamacare). Doing more debt spending does not give these businesses confidence to hire... bailing out their competitors with tax money does not help.

Government jobs don't create any tax revenue or good. They are a net loss, they will always be a net loss. Forever.

You don't have to spend other peoples money to "recover" an economy, you merely have to take less from the right people, and downsize yourself (if you are a government).

Do more research on the first depression, and the 80%+ income tax rate... Read about how they were just taking a bunch of wild ass guesses and it prolonged the depression for so many years. It sounds so familiar.

Nice post.
 

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