Thunderbird Run 'n Gun, July 13, 2013 -- do you have what it takes?

I would be totally down for a winter "run". What pistols would qualify for milsurp status? I can think of a bunch, just don't own any. But I'm happy to bust out the Mosin this winter. I can't say enough how fun this was. I was so proud to finish, running out of ammo on the last stage didn't even bother me.

Also, I was too tired to remember to check; I'd love to see the times (stage times too) posted. I feel like I didn't do too shabby on some stages for my first ever "comp", but I'd like to see for sure.

Rough...

Enjoyed meeting everyone and getting my ass kicked!

TedKennedy said:

I heard about the trail flagging confusion a lot - we'll do better next time...Probably a mil-surp version this winter....any takers?

BTW -everyone showed great attitudes, and persevered, with no real safety issues -that just shows what kind of good folks participate in this kind of event.

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english kanigit said:

The green trail especially was a bit of a bear. I actually liked it though because it required thought and some work to find the trail at times.

It was good putting faces to names! I do wish now that I had run my contour camera though I am afraid that it might've been peeled off my bucket by branches or an obstacle.

Also, 400yds with an 8" AK is freakishly satisfying.

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Ek

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Like EK said, I think the trail confusion just added to the stress. It made us work at it instead of just blindly following a path to the next stage.

Not only was that 8" AK feat at 400 satisfying...it was a gauntlet throw down for folks running bipods and scopes.

I'm in for a Winter version! Although I suppose Nate will show up with something silly like M3 Grease Gun and smoke us all at the 400.

My mosin's all sporterized (scope, composite stock, etc). I know those aren't allowed at the tri-city matches, but it'd be fun to lug that thing around. Also, I hope to have my AK build done by then (building a surplus Romanian parts kit counts as mil-surp right? ).

I might be able to use this as an excuse to pick up a browning hi-power...

I personally would like to see clearly defined trails
The flag idea was a good idea but lead to a lot of confusion too. It also made it fairly easy to accidentally find short cuts. I know after picking up the bullet goin from pink to blue a lot of guys went the wrong way and ended up down range in 4 and 5... I personally almost did this. The cease fire at the beginning of the day was because of this too.
Caution tape to follow instead of flags maybe?
I've seen that done in some GNCC racing...

Ken, the owner of Thunderbird, was a gracious host. He has a great range, but...there's not really enough land there to get much distance running, without crossing the trails. If any of y'all know anyone with land, that would possibly allow this type of event, let me or Henschman know. They'll make a few bucks for it, and have a good show as well!

UMB's semi-coherent AAR follows.

First, I would like to thank, again, the staff, sponsors and our host for a very well organized and executed event. It was nice to finally meet fellow OSA members in person, although somehow I was able to miss a few of them I wanted to meet. perhaps they saw me first and said to themselves, "hell no".
I think for the majority of shooters and movers it was a chance for us to shake out our kit and physical program under stress. I am approaching this review with that in mind as I had no illusions of competing with any one but myself.

With that in mind my goals for the event were:
1. Finish without an injury. This seems to be self evident, but I was more concerned with another heat injury.
2. Shoot the course with an emphasis on efficiency in terms of rounds needed to complete the obstacle, reloads, and clearing malfunctions if needed.
3. To finish the course on my feet.


Gear
From top to bottom:
Sooper cool tactical sand colored ball cap, never washed.
Oakley M frame 2.0. these are probably the best ballistic rated glasses I have owned.
Crye JPC with Large ESAPI plates- Source 3L hydration pack (2L h2o)- 1x HSGI Taco rifle mag holder- 2x HSGI pistol mag holder- HSGI IFAK with shears, israeli bandage, H and H gauze, Quickclot gauze-
small molle pouch with spare ar bolt, lube, firing pin, saline and contacts- Tactical Tailor TQ holder with CATT- 4x PMAGS with 120 rds- 2x Glock 17 mags with 34 rounds.
215 Gear enh. riggers belt with safariland 6004 hooded holster with single leg strap attached to the belt with a safariland 1.5 inch DFA.
Noveske lowered Daniel Defense MK 18 with Geissele ssa, Vltor A5, Elcan Specter DR 1x4, Troy buis, YHM 5.56 suppressor, VCAS sling, BCM mod 1 grip.
Nomex flyers gloves, which stayed in my pocket, and i regretted later.
Glock 17, 2nd gen, 18 rounds of ammo
Massif ACS
Woolrich sooper cool guy pants.
Danner Melee mid high boots.

Having previously run in and done limited training in this gear I felt reasonably sure that it was ready to do work. With gear, guns and ammo I tipped the scales at 275 to 280 lbs with 2 liters of water. For the most part it all performed as well or better than expected, and a couple of items failed to live up to their rep. I had removed the elastic retention for the rifle mag holders on the JPC believing that the mags sat far enough down in the pouches that retention would not be an issue. This proved to be true, they stayed right where I left them. I did re purpose on of the straps to the rifle TACO as it was more exposed out front and less of the magazine is protected by the pouch. Everything stayed put until I needed it. I did have the hood on the 6004 pop down while under the wire but the pistol was retained. The ACS was a recent add on to my kit and worked well to keep my timer and ear plugs handy as well as letting the slight breeze cool my tender flesh under the plate carrier. The thorns had no affect on the shirt, which surprised me, as my pants were a holey mess and the rand around the front of my left boot was all but torn away. I expected more from the Danners than they were able to deliver I guess. I see some Salomon GTX in my near future.


Shuffling around the course:

I started the C25K program 10 weeks ago. At the time I could not jog 100 yards. No, I am not kidding. Between my knees and my weight, I was not ambulatory beyond a quick walk without any extra gear. This program was recommended to me before I heard about the run and gun and I just decided it was time to get off my ass; the run and gun was my motivation. I had been running/ walking in this gear for the past 6 weeks, sans rifle and pistol, for 1.5 to 2 miles every other day working up to all jogging and no running for that distance over the past 3 weeks. During that time I dropped 35 lbs. I stuck to trail running and thought I was half way prepared for the challenge. I was wrong, very wrong. While my 10 week ago self would have died before reaching the pond, my recent self was begging me to stop at about the same spot. An improvement, but not the one i expected. It was my intention to "airborne shuffle" where I could and walk where i had to. This was quickly replaced by a " sweet Jesus, if I can just keep putting one foot in front of the other I will be lucky". several times I was just gassed and had to take a knee. at station 2 and 3 I had to actually stop and sit under the shade while other shooters passed me by. Did I mention heat injury? one of the RO's at station 2 asked me if I was ok, and followed that with "well, your color looks ok, I have fluids in that bag if you need them". This was a question I would be asked at the next stage as well, and like #2 I had to sit for a few until some clarity and wind got back into me. I would like to say here that the RO's were very perceptive to possible medical problems, and would not stop talking to me while i was stopped; evaluating my alertness. I made the mistake of not eating breakfast, instead I relied on the energy from a Clif bar and Clif energy pouch with buckets of water. I am sure that contributed to my lack of juice.
The course was a swell mix of summer heat, nail like thorns, abrupt elevation changes, more thorns ( this time with vines). There were a couple of barbed wire obstacles which were not necessarily physically hard but were just high enough off the ground to grab whatever was on your back and make you back up before continuing, If someone had been screaming at me while I was there I would have had flashbacks to basic training. As for the gulley on the blue trail. We almost had a full on OSA convention down there while contemplating our predicament. Thank you for the rope.
Somewhere between the first and second stages i picked up a small acorn between my left heel and inside of my boot. Thinking it was my sock bunching up i drove on to the second stage. I have a nice blistered divot at the base of my Achilles for not stopping sooner. I had issues with navigation and went off the res in several areas only to backtrack and try again. That, combined with the guidance from other competitors, i did find my way, eventually. This was not particularly troublesome, other than being an annoyance, as I expected being able to find your way in less than ideal circumstances a part of the experience.
What I learned. While my restart into the world of becoming physically productive member society has had a good start, much work is needed. The run and gun was considerably tougher than I had expected, combined with inadequate nutrition provided a welcome wake up call.

Shooting around the course:

Every stage was accompanied by an RO (s) that got right to business. Directions were clear, concise and they were observant of the competitors condition. Every one of them I had contact with seemed genuinely glad to be there and help the shooter complete the stage safely and in time. All of this despite being out in that crap all day after having set up and run the course the previous day for the most part. My hat is off to ya.

Stage one.
Load a shotgun, and shoot the steel. This is the only stage which went without a hitch. wham bam thank you ma'am.

Stage two.
I had practiced what I would do on the VTAC wall. It did not go as I had anticipated. Danny told us to expect changes and if we were flustered by that sort of thing to reconsider our attitude. I had planned to shoot the lower portion of the wall bent over to the right. Since the strut for the wall on the left side was revered from what I had planned I ended up dropping to my knees and shooting it SBU style. plans changed, but I was ready for that one. Move to the tree from bottom to top 1,2,3, 3 again 4, 4 again, 5 and done. This was only one of two times i remember. 1:49. probably because it was at this same place I had to sit, catch my breath and dig that damn acorn out of my foot. By the time i left this station I had consumed all of my water.

Stage three.
This stage stayed the same as I had anticipated. Did the failure drill on bad guy one, moved over and two from the right of the barricade, and probably 3 or 4 rounds to clear the left side. Next spot, took a knee and bam, bam. This is where a slight omission on my part makes its presence known. I dropped satisfyingly quick to my chest and BAM! I had not put in my ear pro. I had not even noticed at the other shooting stations. Well, too late now. Two more shots and the work was done, but not the learning. The next point; load rifle, two on the right and two on the left. Pop, pop right done and transition to the left. I had practiced shooting left handed shooting with the stock in my right shoulder so i could continue to use my right eye to shoot. No problem. Well, that was straight on shooting, not leaning over around cover. While leaning over it was almost impossible to get the correct eye relief on the scope and when it was my right hand had traveled rearward enough to just cover the ejection port. Bang, a hit, and a burning sensation on my palm. I ignored that when I noticed the ejected brass had come out, hit my palm and drove straight back into the port which was now a spaghetti of brass and bullets. Here is where prior planning/training helps. Immediate slap, rack but no joy, remedial strip the mag, lock the bolt to the rear and finger (insert expletive here) the mag well to extract the rounds. Charge the weapon twice, re insert mag, charge gun and fire; this time on my left shoulder with my left eye. I sat down and tended to my wound. It was a nice crescent shaped cut with a brass shaped burn below it. lesson learned.

Stage four.
I actually stopped while passing the firing point at stage 4 to get water. My sis was there and immediately told me my lips were blue. I attribute this to the difficulty I had breathing. It seemed i could not get my breath and was only able to make quick short gasps. This had not been a problem running in my gear before so I dont think it was related to that, but it was certainly another sign that I have a lot more work to do. Watered up, I made the trek out to the edge and back to the stage to shoot. A small disclaimer here. I have shot at this range numerous times. A good portion of it prone about 5 yards behind where we shot the stage. I knew where to hold and hit the 12 inch steel that is normally set up where they had the 18 x 20 steel set up. 3 shots, 3 hits, 20 something seconds later and I was off to the races.

Stage 5.
There were two easy moves in the entire course. The gravel drive from the start line, and the down hill movement on stage 5. This stage was uneventful in terms of problems except it was hard for me to tell when i had hits because the rounds did not splatter and the target did not ring like ar 500 steel. I was told it was 1/2 inch mild steel. Either way, i sent a couple of extra rounds into the target because with out the immediate feedback i overcompensated and sent rounds as i got a sight picture unless stopped by the RO. At the two kneeling stations I had at least one extra hit before the RO could tell me i had completed that portion and could move on.
I anticipated the ammo can would have sand in it. However I was thankful it wasnt full. That trip around the berms and another up and down through a gulley was an ass kicker for me. I had spent whatever fuel I had long ago and stopped twice to lean over and breath while suppressing the urge to puke. Maybe skipping breakfast wasnt a total loss after all.

Total rounds expended: Rifle=40
pistol=31

I will add more as I remember it, but that's what I got for now. Again, thanks for everyone who worked this event and especially to Ken for letting us trample through his fields.

UMB out.

I had a couple of issues myself on getting turned around while I was sucking it physically and in autopilot.

Problem noted and corrected. Recommended action: disengage autopilot. Once I engaged my thinking muscle I had little issue and the directions were not terribly hard, IE "Return on pink, left onto blue trail".

“The final weapon is the brain, all else is supplemental.”


― John Steinbeck, The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights

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Ek

UnSafe said:

In case anyone lost their flyer like me, here's the link to the Alex Arms Zombie Run N Gun in October.
http://www.alexarms.com/

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A zombie run without shotguns? What sacrilege is this? I'd love to do something like this with my Saiga.