Constitutional carry passes the Oklahoma house

tRidiot · Mar 13, 2016

ronny said:
So, I said restrictions are perfectly OK? If ya'll would spend more time reading instead of trying to read something into it, we'd all be better off.

You said you didn't have a problem with requiring training to carry a firearm in public. Is that different than a restriction? I'm just curious, that's how I understood what you said, and that's how I understand restrictions. Am I putting words in your mouth somehow??

ronny · Mar 13, 2016

tRidiot said:
You said you didn't have a problem with requiring training to carry a firearm in public. Is that different than a restriction? I'm just curious, that's how I understood what you said, and that's how I understand restrictions. Am I putting words in your mouth somehow??

No, you're not. However, this has gone from the fact that I think some sort of rudimentary training should be developed for people wanting to carry weapons to charges that I want to remove the freedoms we all have. Yet, this freedom we're talking about is one we don't even have yet. We are required to take a training course. Yes, it sucks, but that's partly our fault. We constantly ***** about how crappy it is, but that accomplishes nothing.

If anyone thinks we currently have this freedom, just walk down to the local police station with a gun on your hip without a license.

We require licenses for the rights to do a lot of things much more mundane than carrying a deadly weapon. There have been countless threads on this site, and others, with members ranting about "novices", by other, not so nice names, sticking their fingers in front of the muzzle, leaving a loaded weapon where a child could reach it, pointing a firearm south on a north-reaching range, etc. How many of those instances might have come to a different conclusion with a little basic training?

You'd think common sense and freedom could find a way to live together.

The funny thing is, 10 years ago we would all have been cheering in the streets to hear that the House had passed the law we're talking about, even with a mandatory training requirement.

tRidiot · Mar 13, 2016

The Constitution says "shall not be infringed".

Yes, our rights have been infringed.

Personally, I think they shouldn't be... like the Constitution says.

You are for a "training requirement".

That says enough.

uncle money bags · Mar 14, 2016

Individual rights require individual responsibility. Any .gov interference to that end; no matter the reason, is antithetical to liberty.

Thats the sound bite version.
What it means is you, as an individual, should be responsible for ensuring you exercise those rights in a manner which does not impede any one elses rights. By requiring government "training" you are essentially handing over the responsibility aspect of the right to another entity in the false hope that it has more competence to ensure that right.
If you choose not to seek training with a firearm then you are a fool to carry or use one. You will fail; probably spectacularly, at the very moment you need to perform. That failure is yours.

ronny · Mar 14, 2016

But, the failure I'm talking about is not the failure to protect yourself adequately. For sure, that's on you. I have little concern for folks who are that negligent for their own safety. It's the ones who have no regard for the safety of others I worry about.

SMS · Mar 14, 2016

ronny said:
But, the failure I'm talking about is not the failure to protect yourself adequately. For sure, that's on you. I have little concern for folks who are that negligent for their own safety. It's the ones who have no regard for the safety of others I worry about.

Perfectly understandable worry ronny. The problem is looking to the government to alleviate those concerns. There are thousands of poorly trained people around you everyday, in this state and in the country. Not just in terms of firearms either. We have legions of untrained/poorly trained parents, drivers, cops, etc...endangering us everywhere we go. No law will fix that and constitutional carry won't drastically increase the number of untrained carriers. Take a visit to a state that has it now, you rarely see people carrying at all.

Protect yourself, be vigilant and move on.

ronny · Mar 14, 2016

I don't argue with a thing you say. I just feel anything we can do to save a few is worth the effort. There will always be dingbats and we can't fix them. But, there are so many who just don't know and appreciate. Oh, well. I think training is a good idea; so do most others. However, I think it won't get done voluntarily; the rest of the world does. The world will go on.

Catt57 · Mar 14, 2016

I think we need to return to 50 years ago where firearm safety was taught in schools and shooting competitions were normal. That way training starts early and there is no training requirement. I have taught my kids to respect firearms, and keep pounding the basic safety rules into their heads. They each have a BB gun and they MUST treat it as if they were a real firearm. Even the most minor infraction of the basic safety rules results in harsh (to them) penalties. You want to punish a child? Make them take a time out and watch while their brother/sister are still having fun.... Repeat offense? Lose the BB gun for the rest of the day. So far, each of them has only had to sit out the entire day 1 time over the last 2 years. They have learned there is no forgiveness in the consequences of breaking or ignoring the basic safety rules, just as there is no forgiveness in the possible consequences of a negligent discharge with a real firearm.

I have shown them several times what a 12G slug can do to milk jugs, fruit, melons, and 2 liter sodas. We have also let them shoot the .22s and even a little 25acp pistol we have. If you sate the curiosity, demonstrate what a firearm can do, AND (very important,) give them instruction on how to safely handle one, it makes everyone safer. My children know they are not toys and do not treat them as such.

ronny · Mar 14, 2016

I think most folks on this site understand and appreciate where you're coming from. The mindset was different back then. But, today, you can go to a gun show and just observe and see some scary stuff. It's pretty clear that most of those who don't know where to point a weapon and to keep their finger off the trigger simply don't know. My Grandpa taught me that when the rifle was longer than I was tall.

henschman · Mar 14, 2016

UMB and SMS are nailing it... I don't really have anything more to add.

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