Fence line vs Survey

easy · Apr 12, 2017

How does this work. Fence line is different than the survey in that the adjacent property fence is on my side of the surveyed line, in some places as much as 18 to 25 feet. Within that area the neighbor has structures and animal pens and a rather abundant junk pile.

The fence has been in place for an unknown number of years. We bought our property four and a half years ago and had survey completed approx 18months ago. Neighbor claims that the fence line will win out in court as the 'traditional' property line.

Anyone have any experience with such things and/or suggestions?

D. Hargrove · Apr 12, 2017

The fence line will not win IMHO. I had a similar situation about 8 years ago, their fence was 5-7 feet over the survey line and it was removed and reinstalled correctly. Court was not necessary, just a letter from my lawyer. You pay the taxes based in part on the size of your lot, you own it and pay the taxes so it is really pretty simple. A fence is a fence, it needs to be moved.

Perplexed · Apr 12, 2017

I have. It may fall under the legal concept of "adverse possession" if the neighbor can claim that the fence was visible to the world, hostile to the interests of the original owner, and continuous for a minimum period of time. In Oklahoma, I think it's 15 years, but I'm not positive. If the neighbor can prove all those conditions are true, then you'd have a tough fight.

"Hostile" in this case being "not what the original owner intended."

Glocktogo · Apr 12, 2017

You need to research "adverse possession" as it relates specifically to Oklahoma law.

This is what I found open source:

Code Section 12 §93, 94
Time Period Required for Occupation 15 yrs.-
Time for Landowner to Challenge/Effect of Landowner's Disability After disability lifted: 2 yrs.
Improvements -
Payment of Taxes -
Title from Tax Assessor 5 yrs.

In other words, it depends on how long the fence has been up. So before you tear that fence down, you should consult with a real estate attorney who's fluent in adverse possession law.

Surveyor1653 · Apr 12, 2017

Adverse possession is incredibly hard to prove, and has to be proven in court. You don't just get someone's land by occupying it. The standards for proving AP are high for a reason. This is probably one of the biggest misconceptions/wives tales of land ownership.

There's a lot in play here:
Under what kind of deed was your title transferred to you?
Did your title work include any prior survey documents?
How long has the neighbor been the neighbor?
Did your surveyor pin all of your corners and mark the line when he did the survey?
Did you get an actual boundary survey done, or a Mortgage Inspection? (I'm assuming boundary since you had it done a couple of years after you bought your house)

Your best bet is to have a cordial conversation with the landowner next door. Ask him politely to relocate his junk and structures. If that doesn't work, then you can engage a title attorney to potentially send a cease and desist letter with notice to vacate, accompanied by the plat of survey. Where you go from there is up to you under counsel from the attorney.

Good luck.

donner · Apr 12, 2017

Without knowing more about the situation, it might be a matter of which is more important, the space reclaimed or the relationship with the neighbor.

For example, if they relocated the fence farther onto their property, you might not be able to hook up with it and would then be out even more $$$ to run a new length of fence.

ConstitutionCowboy · Apr 12, 2017

At the very least, if you lose, the county needs to reimburse any taxes you paid on the disputed property and re-collect them from the guy who "stole" your property. Your county's mileage may differ.

Woody

Glocktogo · Apr 12, 2017

Surveyor1653 said:
Adverse possession is incredibly hard to prove, and has to be proven in court. You don't just get someone's land by occupying it. The standards for proving AP are high for a reason. This is probably one of the biggest misconceptions/wives tales of land ownership.

There's a lot in play here:
Under what kind of deed was your title transferred to you?
Did your title work include any prior survey documents?
How long has the neighbor been the neighbor?
Did your surveyor pin all of your corners and mark the line when he did the survey?
Did you get an actual boundary survey done, or a Mortgage Inspection? (I'm assuming boundary since you had it done a couple of years after you bought your house)

Your best bet is to have a cordial conversation with the landowner next door. Ask him politely to relocate his junk and structures. If that doesn't work, then you can engage a title attorney to potentially send a cease and desist letter with notice to vacate, accompanied by the plat of survey. Where you go from there is up to you under counsel from the attorney.

Good luck.

While true that the adverse possessor has to file that claim in court and prove it to a preponderance, you can't legally tear down existing fence of another property owner and relocate it without permission. That's all I was saying.

Surveyor1653 · Apr 12, 2017

Glocktogo said:
While true that the adverse possessor has to file that claim in court and prove it to a preponderance, you can't legally tear down existing fence of another property owner and relocate it without permission. That's all I was saying.

Absolutely. I wasn't responding to anyone in particular, just putting out there what I did before the thread devolved into the inevitable "That's your land. Do with it what you want." or the ever popular "The fence is the boundary after so many years." I can absolutely rent a skid steer and push the neighbor's crap over the line my surveyor marked. I'm free to do that. I'm just not free from the consequences of destroying that guy's property.

The likelihood that either or both of them can afford or has the will to take this thing to court is not known to me. I do know this: If you don't know the limits of your property, the courts are not generally kind to you when you get there. Surveys are like divorces: They're expensive because they're worth it.

easy · Apr 12, 2017

Surveyor1653 said:
Adverse possession is incredibly hard to prove, and has to be proven in court. You don't just get someone's land by occupying it. The standards for proving AP are high for a reason. This is probably one of the biggest misconceptions/wives tales of land ownership.

There's a lot in play here:
Under what kind of deed was your title transferred to you? ?Explain please?
Did your title work include any prior survey documents? Yes
How long has the neighbor been the neighbor? Long story - Neighbor was 'no cost' tenant on parents land. Parents sold part of property in dispute to daughter. Does the 15 year rule still apply or does the clock start over?
Did your surveyor pin all of your corners and mark the line when he did the survey? Yes
Did you get an actual boundary survey done, or a Mortgage Inspection? (I'm assuming boundary since you had it done a couple of years after you bought your house)
Boundary survey
Your best bet is to have a cordial conversation with the landowner next door. Ask him politely to relocate his junk and structures. Did this, didn't go well. Stiff neck hairs and terse words about timelines. If that doesn't work, then you can engage a title attorney to potentially send a cease and desist letter with notice to vacate, accompanied by the plat of survey. Where you go from there is up to you under counsel from the attorney.

Good luck.

Been reading up on this. Headache generator for sure. See additional info in red.

The attempt to talk to neighbor was the obvious first step. Then asked here of course just to see if there could be any useful insight. Corners and direction line changes are marked very well with pins and now with T-posts.

Fence line vs Survey

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