Teachers strike

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sumoj275

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You know, one of the suggestions I have been making to my district and to the state legislature is the need to supply teachers with trauma training and trauma kits. Remember in the military, we all carried a first aid bandage and had first aid/ emergency aid kits/personnel dispersed around a position. We are not allowed to give out a band-aid to a kid. Last week, we had to pass a state law so elementary school teachers can apply suntan lotion to a kid, without getting sued.
Coaches have to have training in first aid, and all teachers are suppose to have the blood borne pathogen classes yearly so a kit and all teachers being trained in cpr and first responder is a great idea.
 

chadh2o

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I'm just trying to figure out your post. I am also trying to figure out if you know the dollar amount the raise will cost the state. Lastly, I am trying to figure out if you are just making statements based on nothing.
In a way I was trying to be a smart a $$, but mostly confused.
Since your seem to be in the know, can you answer some questions that would help shed some light.

Background for my ire.
The other night I was watching the news (which I religiously never do) and the NEA President said that they were proposing a production tax of 7-8%. Then later in the broadcast another person interviewed said raise the income tax by .5%-1%. This was the basis for my earlier comments.

Now for the questions...
1) How many teachers are there in Oklahoma?
2) Of the xxx teachers, which group will be receiving a "raise"? (All, certified, alternative certified, temporary, substitute)
3) If the district already pays above the base teacher rate, will this group also receive the dictated raise or the difference or TBD?
4) Are there any exemptions for any teachers who might get a raise, but will or should not?
5) After the above are answered, then we can figure how much $$$ are necessary to provide for the increase.

My thought of revenue generation (not what I want but what they may do) for this...
1) Production tax increase
2) Tobacco tax increase (sin tax)
3) Capital gain tax increase (stock, bond, property/business sale profits)
4) Income tax increase
(#3&4 will be a very hard sell. These are already higher than some bordering states and could hurt new business relocation, which hurt growing the overall economy and may turn off some of the newly announced moves. #1 will hurt the oil and gas production industry that is already not doing well (Chesapeake, Devon and Sandridge are a few that have recently laid off hundreds. An increase in the production tax may lay off hundreds more and close some businesses (hence my comment earlier about Wishire street in OKC being mostly for rent). Others with marginal profit wells will turn off the spigot.). #2 is the easiest, but a $50 pack of smokes will literally put a lot of poor people in the street that seems to becoming more populated judging by the street corners in OKC.

If you can't tell, I'm a numbers cruncher in a past life. 1+1=2 not 3,4,5 as the .gov seems to advance. When the tobacco tax was passed last time, the revenue numbers they were expecting did not add. I went to the state site and referenced all the numbers, figured the new tax based on current tax generation, packs sold, at that time, and calculated they were off by more than half. But it was sold to the public, even though basic arithmetic could see the folly. If the teachers want a sustainable pay increase, the increase should be based on a substantiated outcome of tax generation. Otherwise it's a fart in the wind, back in a few years for another wiff.
 

Shadowrider

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chadh2o your prognostication and observations about the production tax increase is spot on. One small detail that they don't want you to know about is that the Chesapeakes, Devons and Sandridges of the state are already paying more than they are calling for. It's just not in production tax. They are taxed at 3 other levels on top of that which takes the overall operational tax rate they are paying up towards the top of this industry and they just want to grab more. Yes it will have an effect, you will see more leave this state so the tax and spend assholes will get their precious tax rate but not the dollars. Then who pays?

Yes I work in this sector. Yes it's already having an effect. My projects are no longer in this state. They are in west Texas...
 

TerryMiller

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View attachment 115401
Wait, so if the state is providing 79 percent, where will it come from? It won't be federal funding, as the government isn't responsible for it. Where exactly will the money come from? I'm seriously curious. I want to be assured as a person with no kids in the school system, I won't have to pay more for this.

Is that the right chart? This is the one I found for the State Department of Education. The one you posted was for "Department of Career and Technology Education.

Okla Dept of Education Funding.jpg
 

Pokinfun

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In a way I was trying to be a smart a $$, but mostly confused.
Since your seem to be in the know, can you answer some questions that would help shed some light.

Background for my ire.
The other night I was watching the news (which I religiously never do) and the NEA President said that they were proposing a production tax of 7-8%. Then later in the broadcast another person interviewed said raise the income tax by .5%-1%. This was the basis for my earlier comments.

Now for the questions...
1) How many teachers are there in Oklahoma?
2) Of the xxx teachers, which group will be receiving a "raise"? (All, certified, alternative certified, temporary, substitute)
3) If the district already pays above the base teacher rate, will this group also receive the dictated raise or the difference or TBD?
4) Are there any exemptions for any teachers who might get a raise, but will or should not?
5) After the above are answered, then we can figure how much $$$ are necessary to provide for the increase.

My thought of revenue generation (not what I want but what they may do) for this...
1) Production tax increase
2) Tobacco tax increase (sin tax)
3) Capital gain tax increase (stock, bond, property/business sale profits)
4) Income tax increase
(#3&4 will be a very hard sell. These are already higher than some bordering states and could hurt new business relocation, which hurt growing the overall economy and may turn off some of the newly announced moves. #1 will hurt the oil and gas production industry that is already not doing well (Chesapeake, Devon and Sandridge are a few that have recently laid off hundreds. An increase in the production tax may lay off hundreds more and close some businesses (hence my comment earlier about Wishire street in OKC being mostly for rent). Others with marginal profit wells will turn off the spigot.). #2 is the easiest, but a $50 pack of smokes will literally put a lot of poor people in the street that seems to becoming more populated judging by the street corners in OKC.

If you can't tell, I'm a numbers cruncher in a past life. 1+1=2 not 3,4,5 as the .gov seems to advance. When the tobacco tax was passed last time, the revenue numbers they were expecting did not add. I went to the state site and referenced all the numbers, figured the new tax based on current tax generation, packs sold, at that time, and calculated they were off by more than half. But it was sold to the public, even though basic arithmetic could see the folly. If the teachers want a sustainable pay increase, the increase should be based on a substantiated outcome of tax generation. Otherwise it's a fart in the wind, back in a few years for another wiff.
1) How many teachers are there in Oklahoma? 41,775
2) Of the xxx teachers, which group will be receiving a "raise"? (All, certified, alternative certified, temporary, substitute)certified, alternative certified, and
I am pretty sure​
a raise for s​
upport personnel will be included.

3) If the district already pays above the base teacher rate, will this group also receive the dictated raise or the difference or TBD? The raise will be on the base salary, not the formula, that means everyone. There are 100 districts, the largest districts, in the state pay above state minimum, part of the problem now is that the last pay raise was on the formula, which means the teachers in those 100 districts did not get the raise. If you did not give the raise on the base, we would be right back here next year. My wife and I did not get the last raise.
4) Are there any exemptions for any teachers who might get a raise, but will or should not? all, I am not sure how you would decide exemptions. They need to do away with the National Board Certification, it is meaningless and has zero benefit to the student. There is discussion about making different types of certifications, which some would pay more. I do not care for the different types of certifications, although it would benefit me, because it would not be the best teachers or the hardest working teachers that would be reward, it would be part of the good old boy system. Also, there is a discussion about a percent increase to award higher levels of education. Right now, the system does not really reward teachers that have improved their education. The amount the system pays for a Masters, makes it difficult to ever pay off the Masters. My wife has a Bachelors plus 64, to include a Masters, She has been an educator for 10 years longer than I have, I make nearly the same amount as her with a Bachelors because I get credit for military service, and the step increases that were not paid. I actually decided against finishing my Masters last year because there was not enough of a reward versus cost.
5) After the above are answered, then we can figure how much $$$ are necessary to provide for the increase. 256,000.000 is the number that was being tossed around the other night. I am pretty sure they were going off of a $5000 raise.

My thought of revenue generation (not what I want but what they may do) for this...
1) Production tax increase
2) Tobacco tax increase (sin tax)
3) Capital gain tax increase (stock, bond, property/business sale profits)
4) Income tax increase
1) The state needs to tax wind power, they need to have the Indian Tribes, I am a Creek Indian, pay more for their exclusive rights to gambling, and oil and wind need to pay ad valorem taxes.
2) We need to create a lockbox type of endowment for education about 5 billion in investments, North Dakota did it, that can be used to pay for a large portion of education instead of using the fluctuating general revenue every year.
3) We pay for 60% of all child births in the state, we need to get out of that business.
4) Something many teachers are not going to realize is the fact that if they get a raise, they may not qualify for new entries into Oklahoma Promises for their children, and they may no longer qualify for a childcare credit. I few teachers out there that are single mothers, may actually be hurt by the raise.
5) I do not think the tobacco tax will help very much, because we are already taxing on the far side of the Laffer Curve. A higher tax should actually generate a lower amount of revenue for the state.
 

Pokinfun

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Coaches have to have training in first aid, and all teachers are suppose to have the blood borne pathogen classes yearly so a kit and all teachers being trained in cpr and first responder is a great idea.
Our district blood borne pathogen classes are online slide shows that we have to watch over the summer. we do not get paid for watching these videos on our time. Not that I do this, but you can start it and walk away for an hour. We have to do several hours of online training, one could start several computers and cellphones to complete all of the training in one hour.
 

Seadog

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Fire any who walk out on their job to strike. Use the subs until new are hired or just extend school till the time is made up. Let teachers move to other states if they want. It's a free market and we have a poor state.
 

Pokinfun

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Fire any who walk out on their job to strike. Use the subs until new are hired or just extend school till the time is made up. Let teachers move to other states if they want. It's a free market and we have a poor state.
I am going to be polite, your idea is ignorant. The first issue is not enough subs, really not even close to enough subs, if 16 percent of our district walks, it would take all subs, all teachers that could cover a class, administrators in classrooms, and you would still have classrooms without teachers.
By the way, your welcome for trying to help our state by being an educator, it makes me feel good that I am helping people like you.
 

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