Open carrying AR15 at Tulsa Gathering Place

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Ethan N

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But the need for Timmy Tactical outfitting? He is either a publicity hound, or just a plain goofball.
Probably, but like you mentioned, he’s got us talking about the issues, which I would imagine is as much a goal of his as the foolish pursuit of that special feeling these guys get when they go out and do this crap. Assuming he is doing this to be noticed, which I admit is the most likely explanation, he’s still a political activist, no matter how misguided, counterproductive, or irresponsible his methods are. I think it hurts free thought and speech when people deny someone’s actions have a political motive when they clearly do. Criticize him all you want, but criticize his message and the way he’s delivering it. Don’t deny he has a message. Leave that dirty tactic to the liberals. It’s one of their favorites.
 

Tanis143

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Yeah I don’t agree with gatekeeping the carry of firearms based on someone’s physical abilities when they are capable of safely handling the gun. It’s an individual’s choice. And discouraging someone from carrying because they might have slower reaction times than usual doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. The most vulnerable people have the most to gain from carrying a gun for self defense.

I described a perfect candidate for carrying a rifle for self-defense and you brought up your imagined reasons he might not have been proficient with a rifle as an excuse for saying a rifle wasn’t the right weapon for him to carry. Performance under stress and reaction times are just as relevant to carrying a pistol as a rifle, so I don’t know why you even brought those up. Most people who carry a pistol don’t have a clue how they would perform under stress. I never saw any evidence his reaction times were unusually slow for an adult. You suggested carrying a .22 pistol (which is what he carried when he went out, since it was easiest to manage), but I already said he wasn’t capable of using pistols effectively because of the grip required. Recoil only added to his inability to maintain a proper grip on a pistol, so a .22 was not a solution. You brought up bulk and weight. Why do you assume that was a barrier to him carrying a rifle? He was perfectly capable of slinging a rifle around for a couple of hours. You seem to be determined to imagine the worst possible scenario, which indicates you may be starting with your preferred conclusion and filtering all evidence and arguments to fit what you’ve already decided. If that’s not what’s going on, I apologize. It’s just hard to see any open-mindedness in what you’re saying. You don’t have to change your mind, but no one has ever been helped by not being open to having their mind changed.

When it comes down to it, as long as someone has chosen a carry weapon based on a good-faith evaluation of what weapon is best suited to their skills and abilities, I will never disparage them for carrying that weapon for self-defense just because they don’t happen to fit the model of a concealed pistol carrier. I know you said you think carrying a rifle should be allowed, but saying a rifle is never the best option for self-defense carry for anyone, regardless of their abilities is ignorance, arrogance, or both. I’m not 100% sure that’s what you’re saying, but it sure sounds like it.

As I said, it was my opinion. But, never did I say that a rifle is never the best option, I simply said that I disagree in your grandfather's case that he should have been able to carry a rifle. This was based on the fact that his arthritis was bad enough to prohibit him from shooting a pistol. How would that arthritis affect his ability to shoot a rifle in a stressful situation? Add in the uncertainty of anyone's reactions under stress and it is just a few too many uncertainties in my opinion. Granted, that is based off soley your description of his affliction and not any substantial observations. However you presented his situation as a model for someone who would benefit from a rifle as a carry weapon. I simply put up my arguments that disagreed with yours.
 

DavidMcmillan

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No one has suggested that he des not have a message, but it really isn't a message that deserves all the attention, or the theatrical approach. His approach is no different than various actress's calling for a sex strike. Just pure grandstanding.
 

Ethan N

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As I said, it was my opinion. But, never did I say that a rifle is never the best option, I simply said that I disagree in your grandfather's case that he should have been able to carry a rifle. This was based on the fact that his arthritis was bad enough to prohibit him from shooting a pistol. How would that arthritis affect his ability to shoot a rifle in a stressful situation? Add in the uncertainty of anyone's reactions under stress and it is just a few too many uncertainties in my opinion. Granted, that is based off soley your description of his affliction and not any substantial observations. However you presented his situation as a model for someone who would benefit from a rifle as a carry weapon. I simply put up my arguments that disagreed with yours.
Fair enough. I’ll agree to disagree.:drunk2:
 

Glock 40

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I agree with you. It was indeed a stunt. There is not now, nor has there been since the Tulsa Race Riot, a need to go into a public park armed in that fashion. He is getting the response he wanted, just look at how much time we have expended on him.

Seriously were you alive 98 years ago for the race riot?
 

Ethan N

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No one has suggested that he des not have a message…
Well, not no one. To be fair, the problem probably seems worse to me than it actually is purely because it bothers me so much when I see it. But whenever stuff like this happens there are people who say things like “he’s nothing but an attention whore.” There’s always a near obsessive flurry of name-calling and making fun of the subject’s desire for attention. To me, dismissive posts like those are a pretty clear suggestion that his “speech” is either not worth addressing thoughtfully or doesn’t exist at all and he’s only in it for attention. That’s the kind of thing I meant when I talked about denying he has a message. Nothing wrong with jokes, but if a demeaning joke is all someone has to contribute, they ought to think twice. There are always people posting various thoughtful perspectives, but I don’t think they are generally the majority. You usually have some pretty good comments to share, but even your last post about him being a publicity hound or a goofball seemed pretty dismissive of his motives, hence my response. Here’s a selection of some posts that I think are also “pure grandstanding” and others that just contain unhelpfully dismissive comments…
It’s frightening how pathetically ignorant some people are! I’m sure he felt like a real badass!
What an idiot! Of course someone will be along shortly to tell us he's an upright citizen exercising his rights (rather than his mind, which obviously he doesn't ever use).
Carpal tunnel braces from too much internet masturbation.…
He probably went home, watched the video, and played with himself.
Auditing the2A...Ha! At least he got to be on TV.
Agree attention whore, who just wants more traffic on his YouTube page.
 

saltydog

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And when incidents like Norman, BA and other places these yahoos provoke a response go mainstream you don't think people are stopping and going "Ok, I didn't see the harm before but if people are carrying them like that then maybe we should ban them". I can guarantee they are. I've already had several discussions with friends who are now leaning towards being ok with an AR ban because of people like this. I've had to explain what is going on, why it is allowed and why the AR is not the problem. To be honest, I don't think I've convinced them. And that is just a few people I know. So again, keep screaming its his right, until the lawmakers take that right away. They have before and they can do it again.


If it’s legal, I don’t have a problem with it nor would I have a problem with you packing an M16 if you wanted. Would I? No, I prefer a handgun. As far as an AR15 ban, that’s coming anyway. Happened once before but will be permanent the next time. Just gotta wait for the right politicians to come into power and it will happen. EO’s have come along ways since the 90’s with very little backlash from the general public. Redefining existing laws “to include” are now the new norm in Washington...
 

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