Theoretical legal question

Tanis143 · Jun 24, 2019

Ok, here is an idea I had to force blue states into reciprocating my CCW. This is just theoretical, so don't know how this would play out. Say I called the NY state police and told them I was going to visit NY, but need a waiver so I can CC. Of course they will tell me no, so I'll demand a state trooper to escort me my entire time. The premise being that if they will strip me of my right to self protection that means they will guarantee my protection for me. Of course they will say no to that as well. So I take them to court. Either they need to provide me 24 hour protection for the duration of my trip or they will allow me to carry concealed with my personal firearm, regardless if it has a 10+ or higher mag. We have a fundamental right to be secure in ones self and belongings, and if they refuse to allow me to protect myself they absorb that burden.

I just wonder how that would play out in court.

Aries · Jun 24, 2019

Haven't the courts ruled multiple times that the police have no specific responsibility to protect you?

Tanis143 · Jun 24, 2019

Aries said:
Haven't the courts ruled multiple times that the police have no specific responsibility to protect you?

On a general stance yes, but police can be assigned to individuals for escort and protection. In this case I would be asking the state of NY assigned an officer(s) to be my escort for the duration of my visit IF they are dead set on removing my capability to provide self protection. That is the difference.

druryj · Jun 24, 2019

How much do you want to spend on attorney fees? New York probably has some pretty high priced lawyers eagerly waiting to drag you around the courtroom. Sorry to say, but I think your idea is a non-starter. I got an idea though, don't go to New York. If there's somebody there you wanna see, fly 'em here to the Land of the Free.

Tanis143 · Jun 24, 2019

druryj said:
How much do you want to spend on attorney fees? New York probably has some pretty high priced lawyers eagerly waiting to drag you around the courtroom. Sorry to say, but I think your idea is a non-starter. I got an idea though, don't go to New York. If there's somebody there you wanna see, fly 'em here to the Land of the Free.

Oh, this I know. This is just for theoretical "what if" discussion. I don't have the money to wage that kind of war, unless I win the lottery soon. And the idea is to use their "precedent" method against them. The hope would be to force these states into reciprocity.

DavidMcmillan · Jun 24, 2019

I think you answered your own question. An individual has no chance of changing a state's laws on their own, when the prevailing views of that state are in opposition to your views.

Yeti695 · Jun 24, 2019

Ok, your what if scenario, the NY state police, local police or any other law enforcement will not waste time on a person from Oklahoma there on vacation. I don’t care how much of the law, regulations or any other judgments you throw at them, it won’t happen ever. If you are not a rich and powerful or celebrity, the state will not give you an escort anywhere while on vacation.

Tanis143 · Jun 24, 2019

Yeti695 said:
Ok, your what if scenario, the NY state police, local police or any other law enforcement will not waste time on a person from Oklahoma there on vacation. I don’t care how much of the law, regulations or any other judgments you throw at them, it won’t happen ever. If you are not a rich and powerful or celebrity, the state will not give you an escort anywhere while on vacation.

That's my point though. If the state of NY seeks to strip me of my fundamental right to be secure in person or possessions, then they need to take up that responsibility. That is the axis of my argument. These nanny blue states keep saying that their firearm laws are for our protection, yet when it comes to actively protecting us they refuse. I say its time to force them to either allow for self protection or to protect us directly. Maybe if that aspect was forced into view, the court would rule that the state (regardless of which one) either has to restore the right of self protection for visitors or they have to protect them directly. I would like to visit NY, there are a lot places that are down right beautiful (that is another aspect of West Point I miss, the Highland Falls area is spectacular). However, with today's issues, I won't travel unless I have my sidearm with me. And in several states my sidearm is not allowed (12+1 capacity).

Aries · Jun 24, 2019

Tanis143 said:
On a general stance yes, but police can be assigned to individuals for escort and protection. In this case I would be asking the state of NY assigned an officer(s) to be my escort for the duration of my visit IF they are dead set on removing my capability to provide self protection. That is the difference.

Doesn't "can be assigned" also mean they don't HAVE to be assigned? You can request, but the answer will be "No". And unless the law or courts have determined that a request MUST be accommodated, I don't see where you'd have a case.

NightShade · Jun 24, 2019

It's a deal where unless you have money they will snowball you and not care. A few people not visiting isn't going to hurt their bottom line one bit. They have enough people coming from all around the world who are happy to forgo any sense of securing themselves as they are indoctrinated that the place they are will protect them.

And if you do have enough money to fight them it's cheaper to just hire armed security. The best thing I can think of around all this is the red states sheriff's start deputizing people so they are LEOSA eligible at which point in time the blue states will start crapping their pants.

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