Cashion: 65yr old woman becomes aggressive toward officer---refused to sign ticket and was tased

dennishoddy said:

He was the one that could have given the ticket and walked away with it unsigned.
It would be tough to issue a ticket and not have it stand in court with her DL info and a tag # plus video confirmation.
I never sign a credit card receipt. Usually draw a happy face on it and it comes back as as signature accepted.
A lot of businesses don’t require signatures now at all.

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A signature is much different than a mark. All that is required for a signing a legal document is your mark, which most people use their signature. A bit of history: When native americans were signing legal documents back in the 17-1800's many didn't speak english nor wrote it, so they put their mark, usually some symbol or just an x (this is where the x on some signature lines come from). All that is required for a legal document is your mark, whatever you chose. This is why when you sign a CC receipt with something other than your signature its accepted unless stated they need a signature.

Signing the ticket, as stated before, is needed to be released on the promissory that you will either show up for court or pay the ticket. Yes, there are a few that are doing e-tickets, but not many and most jurisdictions still require a signature. If he let her have the ticket without signing she can go to court and say she never got the ticket and it would be dropped.

A traffic stop is a legal physical arrest for a misdemeanor committed in your presence.
The signature is your promise to appear in court on or before the court date in lieu of physical arrest.
Failure to sign is no longer "in lieu of" and therefore you must be taken before a magistrate.

So if you refuse to sign your ticket for the misdemeanor crime of methamphetamine possession, do they then go ahead and arrest you?

I mean, to be fair, the whole point of changing drug possession crimes to a misdemeanor was to stop clogging up the jails - but still allow the state to get their cash from the fine, right? So...

I dunno, it's a whole big ass mess.

tRidiot said:

So if you refuse to sign your ticket for the misdemeanor crime of methamphetamine possession, do they then go ahead and arrest you?

I mean, to be fair, the whole point of changing drug possession crimes to a misdemeanor was to stop clogging up the jails - but still allow the state to get their cash from the fine, right? So...

I dunno, it's a whole big ass mess.

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I think the changes were to drop some of the charges from felonies to misdemeanors. A misdemeanor usually gets a ticket and a fine and you’re on your way unless you PO the judge and he adds a few days in jail for it.

I’ve noticed that there has been some changes in petit larceny and grand larceny by raising the dollar amount for it to be a felony. To me, this encourages shoplifting and other thefts. All a thief has to do is know the dollar amount to keep it a misdemeanor and if they’re caught, they get a ticket, a fine and no jail.

I agree, now I think they've raised felony larceny to $1000. I think that was YUGE mistake, as well. I'm not for decriminalizing obviously bad behavior. We're not talking about stealing a candy bar or a pack of smokes. $1000 is a pretty damned high bar, if you ask me. But then, they DID ask me, and I got outvoted by the public.

dennishoddy said:

How so?

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Plenty of other people have explained why you are wrong on this one. I don’t think I need to beat a dead horse

74834 said:

Plenty of other people have explained why you are wrong on this one. I don’t think I need to beat a dead horse

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token smilie face!

Could it have been handled differently, sure. 20/20 hindsight applies. It also depends on policy and training. Don't know what those are in this situation but honestly she was being a derp.

As far as the mark I read a story about a guy who started drawing on his credit card receipts thinking they would be possibly flagged as invalid. Those things are not actually transmitted to the CC processor or the CC company. They are held locally for a few months until dispute time is done and then deleted or destroyed. Anyway he made a "rooster" and ballbearings pictogram as his mark. Eventually a woman asked to see his card and stated the signature didn't match. He signed again correctly so they matched and he moved on. I started signing the back of my cards that way and may just start signing my other stuff that way as well... I am sure that if I get another fix it ticket the officer will not be amused but if it's on my license it's legal.

I do know that in the video she stated she knew the damage was there and was waiting on insurance to do something. My best guess would be a tractor trailer or something fairly large hit the back end. Should she at least have tried to do something, yes. Common sense would have said at least try and make it workable. However she chose not to and was pretty open about she was waiting for other people to do their thing. Officer could have issued a fix it ticket as well and she probably would not have been as belligerent about it all. My guess is she already had some and expected the same and didn't get it so was pissed. If she had attempted to make it halfway legal with some tape or plastic and the bulbs all working she probably wouldn't have been pulled over to begin with and would have just gotten a fix it ticket if he still decided to pull her over. I learned a long time ago that if everything works as it should, you drive correctly, and do not speed you do not get pulled over.

Before a long trip I do all my checks and make sure things work and are legal. I do the same at least once a month. My last traffic stop was when some jackwagon decided to squeeze between a moving truck and my vehicle and broke the mirror off. I had not had a chance to fix it at that point and was waiting for estimates and parts. Officer issued the fix it ticket and it was all good.

When she refused he was probably going to put her in cuffs and sit her in the back of the squad car let her simmer a bit and then offer to let her sign and go on her way. She chose to do the stupid thing and took off, fought, and then felt her body convulse. When she goes to court the judge will probably laugh, give her a fine plus the original and send her on her way. But if she continues to act stupid she will end up with bad things. Right now it's all on her but I can bet she won't do something stupid to get tased again.

Will the department issue a memo and make some changes probably but again hindsight is 20/20.

tRidiot said:

So if you refuse to sign your ticket for the misdemeanor crime of methamphetamine possession, do they then go ahead and arrest you?

I mean, to be fair, the whole point of changing drug possession crimes to a misdemeanor was to stop clogging up the jails - but still allow the state to get their cash from the fine, right? So...

I dunno, it's a whole big ass mess.

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We can't write tickets here for drug related offenses, it is still a jail offense. The statute that reduced them to misdemeanors didn't cover that process. It was an oversight on the legislatures part. Most of the municipal agencies changed to allow it so they could get the fines instead of the state. I doubt the legislatures will fix this issue.

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I still sign all credit card transactions "obvious forgery" nobody has ever noticed. The bank did notice when I signed checks that way and asked me to stop. Lol
If I earn a ticket I'll give it a try and report back the results!

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