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  1. #1

    Default The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    I'm looking to invest in a basic civilian model M4 military rifle with none of the high speed gadgets already included, but that will allow for them to be put on at a later date. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Basically any flat-top carbine, nearly every manufacture makes one.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Hi,

    I bought/put together my first AR in the last couple of months and you can either buy a completed rifle or build it yourself if you like building things. I went the "semi build" route and it all started with a CMMG lower I picked up at Sports World for $99. I bought a completed BCM upper so I wouldn't have to do any of the upper building or buy tools to do it. I got some great prices at stuff from palmettostatearmory.com too.

    Good luck,

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  4. #4
    Patron robar-g19's Avatar
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    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Any 16" government profile barreled flattop AR with carbine length quadrails will get you what you're looking for.
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  5. #5
    Patron been's Avatar
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    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Ive heard that the shorter barrels on the M4's underpower the 5.56 round.is this true?

  6. #6
    Patron ez bake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Quote Originally Posted by been View Post
    Ive heard that the shorter barrels on the M4's underpower the 5.56 round.is this true?
    The short answer is "no". You loose velocity with each inch you shorten, but I'm not sure how short you're talking about or what "under power the round" means - lots of SBRs on this board and around the world function just fine (and the rounds are still accurate).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    just what i heard.wasn't sure if it was true or not because i don't have much experience with AR's.

  8. #8
    Cannot be Ignored NikatKimber's Avatar
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    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    If you're wanting the true M4 style, with the M4 contour barrel, this from DelTon is about the cheapest you can get.

    DelTon M4 Rifle Kit $485 + Lower receiver. This includes everything you need except the receiver. If I remember correctly, there is someone in the classifieds selling receivers for $81 OTD. So for less than $600 you could be have a complete rifle.

    If the exact look of the M4 is not required, I recommend getting a midlength gas system like this one:
    DelTon Mid Rifle Kit $465 + Lower receiver. The Midlength gas system is smoother and less harsh on the gun.

    If you're not as concerned with price, this is even more accurate to the M4 specs (14.5" barrel), and higher quality.
    BCM 14.5" M4 Upper $449 + BCG + CH + Complete Lower. BCG (bolt carrier group) + CH (charging handle) can be had for ~$150, and figure $200 for a basic M4 type complete lower if you build it yourself.

    As far as the high speed add ons later, as long as you build with a A3 upper (flat top upper vs A2 w/ built in carry handle and sight), everything else can be changed. The AR-15 system is beautiful that way, it is completely modular. You can set up two uppers for one lower, swap stocks on a lower, barrels, hand guards, everything.

    PS**** Anything with less than 16" barrel is an NFA item if built as a rifle. Just FYI. The upper I linked to with the 14.5" barrel has a permanently attached flash hider that therefore counts as barrel length making it 16.1".

  9. #9

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Quote Originally Posted by been View Post
    Ive heard that the shorter barrels on the M4's underpower the 5.56 round.is this true?
    The original 55gr 5.56 round was designed around the 20" barrel. The velocities the round was able to achieve caused the round to violently tumble and fragment consistently. Using a shorter 14.5" barrel will result in having less velocity and cause the round to not tumble and violently fragment as much as it would through a 20" barrel. Note that I said "as much." They still will tumble and fragment and are still deadly, but just not as much as it would through a 20" barrel. The same is true for the XM855 62gr penetrator rounds. Those are notorious for being icepicks with little to no tumbling at all, especially through shorter barrels.

    This can be compensated by using heavier 75-77 gr. rounds which will fragment and tumble at very slow velocities. The downside is that these actually will penetrate less than the old 55gr rounds. Some of the US troops deployed in the middle east are using MK262 5.56 rounds that are 77gr open tipped match grade rounds. There is also a new 62gr penetrator round that the military is using called the XM855A1, which is dubbed the "green" round since it is lead free and uses a copper core and a stacked steel tip. Supposedly these have better penetration than most .308 rounds and they tumble consistently, eliminating the icepick type wound usually associated with the old XM855 rounds.

    I haven't shot the new XM855A1 (don't think it's available for civvies yet and can't find any surplus) but I can attest to the 77gr rounds. Awesome rounds, just a bit expensive to shoot. I plan on reloading my own 77gr rounds in the future.

    Also, if you want to shoot heavier rounds, you'll need a 1:8 or 1:7 twist. If you want a general AR that shoots both cheap 55gr rounds and the heavier stuff, I'd recommend a 1:8. If you're only concerned with plinking and shooting targets and small varmints, then a 1:9 twist is fine.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Model1sales.com has some good prices and good upper kits (upper and lower parts kit) then all you need is a stripped lower!!!
    http://www.model1sales.com
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  11. #11

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Quote Originally Posted by been View Post
    Ive heard that the shorter barrels on the M4's underpower the 5.56 round.is this true?
    You'll obviously lose velocity as EZ said. That does translate to the rounds not fragmenting as much or at all if it gets slow enough either due to the inherant loss of velocity or just from the distance and slowing below proper fragment speeds.

    But are you really concerned about that?

    Re: Switching to 77 grain slow boolits that cost more and still fragment at the slower speeds (to a point) due primarily to the thinner jacket, I don't think I'd waste my time with that. They'd be good if all you needed to penetrate were flesh, but overall I wouldn't consider the tradeoff worth it.

    So are you wanting something that's just got the look of an M4 or are you wanting M4 performance in total including using milspec ammo, etc... what are your concerns?
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  12. #12

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    Quote Originally Posted by NikatKimber View Post
    The upper I linked to with the 14.5" barrel has a permanently attached flash hider that therefore counts as barrel length making it 16.1".
    ^^^This is the way to go for max M4 authenticity. If you get a 16" barrel there really isn't any reason you shouldn't go with the mid length gas system IMO.

    Also my 1x7 twist seems fine for 55gr haven't tried anything lower though. There may be negligible accuracy loss over the heavier stuff but I can't tell. Definitely no ripping bullets apart or key hole issues.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    As others have said get a 14.5 inch with perm. attached flash hider. If you go with a 16 inched get a midlength. A 16 or 14.5 inch barrel doesn't 'underpower' the 556, but it will shorten the range the round will fragment. IIRC it's around 100-150 yards, but don't quote me. For as close to M4 spec as possible I'd go with a Colt 6921 and permanently attached flash hider, or a Bravo company (BCM). For the best deal going get a BCM blemished lower, and a BCM permanently attched flash hider.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    the very closest to a military M4 you could get while keeping it semi auto would be a Colt 6920 with a 14.5" barrel, GI flashhider, and a SBR stamp. That would be GI spec except for the 3 round burst or full auto trigger group. If you want the issue quad rails, that is a Knights Armament Co. RAS. The issue rear sight is a Matech BUIS. The issue red dot is an Aimpoint Comp M2 or M4. The issue scope is a Trijicon TA31RCO-M150CP or TA31RCO-M4CP depending on whether you want the Army or Marine version.

    If you want to go a little off mil spec but avoid all the NFA bullcrap with the $200 SBR stamp, registration, etc., you might go with a 14.5" barreled rifle with a permanently attached flash hider that is a little longer than the GI one, which brings total barrel length over 16" and avoids the NFA business.

    I said Colt because they are the one who makes the military's M4s, but BCM and CMMG sell rifles that are equally mil spec.
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  15. #15
    Patron Seadog's Avatar
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    Default Re: The closest thing to an M4 military rifle in a civilian model.

    If I recall right F&N made em for the army to but that may have been the A2 and not the M4.

    Ive see alot and forgotten about as much. So I could be wrong
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