My reloading steps ,why a progressive can't work for me.

swampratt · Nov 6, 2013

I have too many steps to make a progressive work
Step 1. and 2
Deprime and pin tumble.
Step 3 and 4
Brush inside necks with spinning brush and lube inside and out.
Step 5
Full length size.
step 6
Clean off lube with rag on outside case and with Qtip inside the neck.
Step 7 and 8
Trim and "Lightly" chamfer.
Step 9
brush inside necks with spinning brush again.
step 10
measure inside diameter of necks and check for runout and smoothness of inside neck.
Step 11
Prime cases.
Some steps left out like letting cases dry and sorting cases.

Now i can place in my loading blocks and measure the powder from my modded 505 scale.
Then seat the bullet ever so carefully..
Seat just a tad then turn case and seat further then one more turning of the case and seat the rest of the way.

How accurate is your progressive ammo at 200-300 yards.
I have found 100 yards with slapped together stuff can make 1" groups
But to keep that 1" at 200 ???

Revived · Nov 6, 2013

Ok… I’ll take the bait… haha… Very well done and thought out… I’m all for finding your comfort zone – confidence plays a key role in accuracy… The goal is consistency from round to round…. I think you’d be surprised how many competitive shooters use 550’s, 650’s and LNL’s for reloading precision long gunning… sure their machines are heavily modded and they certainly don’t use them for every step in the process…. But by sheer volume and experience they know how to make it work for them as you have… The problem is the measuring stick of 200-300yds… Most inconsistencies at these distances are shooter error and/or their guns, NOT the ammo from experienced reloaders… Sometimes you’ll hear accuracy measured as MOD (minute of deer)… because most simply don’t shoot longer distances than this… the real differences start happening from 600 – 1,000yds+
I think there’s a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience from both camps… might be nice if maybe a small group of us experienced (should read: old dudes) could get together and go shoot sometime… or if nothing else exchange ideas… I believe we could all learn a little something from others – even though I still think I know everything…lol

aviator41 · Nov 6, 2013

I'm not going to knock your process, swampratt. If those are the steps that allow you to gain the confidence for very long shots, go for it.

Personally, I don't see the need for the (IMHO) overzealous brushing of the case necks and multi-step seating of the bullet and run out check for sub 600 yard shooting. However, if it makes you feel better about the quality of ammo you are making, I see no reason to stop. It's important to understand that regardless of the quality of the ammo, if you're not loading ammo using what you have determined to be the best powder, brass, primer and bullet combination for a specific rifle platform on TOP of the process you mention, you are most likely wasting your time doing all the extra steps.

Then there's the platform you choose to shoot from.

As revived eluded to, most inaccuracies at lower yardages (sub 500) can be attributed to the shooter, not the platform and certainly not the ammo.

I'm not raining on your parade, just realize that chances are ammo made on a progressive that has been properly set up, using brass that has properly been batch cleaned, would most likely yield ammunition that is just as accurate as what you're making. and yes I can get sub MOA (2" at 200 yards) from ammo loaded on my Lee turret press at 200 yards. The secret is knowing what combination my rifle likes, and having a high quality platform to shoot from and the right caliber to shoot with.

Once you start shooting out past 800 yards, the conversation changes.

swampratt · Nov 6, 2013

Fish on!
So one step i can't get past is lube inside the case necks. Does the lube contaminate the powder.
I use imperial sizing die wax or hornady unique case lube.
What do you guys do for that?
As neck sizing is out for me , and i have an expander that pulls through the inside of the neck.

I have 3 powders i use for my rifles. IMR4064, Varget, H4350. Do you guys have a powder measure that meters these with reliable consistencies.
primers are 210M not that that makes a difference in loading...but it does for my groups.

The initial brushing of the case neck is for wear and tear on my die.
The second round just makes them much smoother...And i noticed a slight improvement in my groups.
To the tune of .25" at 100 yards.
All my brass is used remington and winchester ..never had the higher buck stuff.

Old Fart · Nov 6, 2013

I've got 3 progressives and I still find myself using my single stage as much as any.
Different strokes for different folks. But to be fair I don't burn through ammo these days either.

acp · Nov 6, 2013

Don't shoot rifles and go shoot bottom feeder pistols a whole bunch and I bet you can figure out what progressives are for! ( I use a single stage for rifle bullets too, but don't shoot rifles much) I learned how to reload on a single stage and since I mostly shoot pistols it wore me out. I could not wait to get a progressive. I went cheap at first, now have a LNL that I love.

aviator41 · Nov 6, 2013

swampratt said:
Fish on!
So one step i can't get past is lube inside the case necks. Does the lube contaminate the powder.
I use imperial sizing die wax or hornady unique case lube.
What do you guys do for that?
As neck sizing is out for me , and i have an expander that pulls through the inside of the neck.

I have 3 powders i use for my rifles. IMR4064, Varget, H4350. Do you guys have a powder measure that meters these with reliable consistencies.
primers are 210M not that that makes a difference in loading...but it does for my groups.

The initial brushing of the case neck is for wear and tear on my die.
The second round just makes them much smoother...And i noticed a slight improvement in my groups.
To the tune of .25" at 100 yards.
All my brass is used remington and winchester ..never had the higher buck stuff.

I use RCBS case lube cause thats what they had last time I needed some. the pin tumbling should get the case neck more than sufficiently clean to run through your die without fear of damage. Just a tiny bit of lube on the outside of the neck is all it takes for FL sizing. I scrape my fingertip over the neck to get just the tiniest bit inside. There should never be enough sizing lube on the case to worry about contaminating the powder. I can usually get 3-4 cases sized for every one I have to lube. Any more and I have too much on there.

I use both the Lee disk measure and the Lee perfect powder measure with great success for the powders you mention. The perfect measure is better, but slower and not an on-press operation. It's used for 30-06 and 300wm cases for two reasons: 1) there's not a disc large enough to get me the charge I need for the big 308 rounds and I'm too cheap to buy a double disk kit. and 2)these are hunting rounds. I owe it to the animal I am hunting to make the most accurate round I can. 0.1 grains could mean the difference between a heart shot and a shoulder shot at 100 yards on a white tail.

You should do what you're comfortable with, no question. Enjoy the process and be proud of the finished product. If the steps you use are filling those requirements, I see no reason to stop. You're definitely not doing anything detrimental. How many reloading manuals do you own? The Lyman 4th is what I'm currently loading with. The front of their manuals is always a gold mine of information!

ASP785 · Nov 6, 2013

I use my progressive for pistol ammunition and 223 ammunition. I have a single stage I use for "accurate" loading but I can tell you that in my 223 rifle there is no discernible difference in accuracy for the same load, loaded on either the progressive or single stage, utilizing the same dies and powder. I have posted photos on this board of the results, but sub moa was the norm.

I have 4 sets of 223 dies. My 22.99 RCBS small base sizer produces the least amount of case runout...even less than the fancy Gold Medal Match set I have. Go figure. In reloading, take nothing for granted and measure everything you have the ability to.

For my Surgeon I measure all of my extruded powder charges on an RCBS charge master. My brass prep consists of Lapua brass (yes that is a prep step) and uniforming the primer pockets. That's it. I neck size using Imperial wax but I do not use an expander ball so I do not lubricate the case necks. Even on the single stage it does not take too long to crank out 100 rounds.

dlbleak · Nov 6, 2013

aviator rings the 1000 post bell! i will admit that i probably don't do enough case prep, so swamratt's post gives me some things to look at that make sense. i also agree with aviator mainly because i don't have the time for the extended process. if i get a chance to get to the range and get 2 inch groups at 200 with my abbreviated method, i'm happy. thanks for the step by step swampratt.

Revived · Nov 6, 2013

I’ve had times where I approached case prep and ammo building with an almost “OCD” methodology… then I’d get a flyer and almost have a nervous breakdown….haha… I found that it was simply more important to achieve round consistency and use my skill set to make adjustments… I spent good money on a Lab type scale (0.02 accuracy) and all the other cool bells and whistles…. Now I do basic case prep and in my volume ammo I use carbide dies and a spray on’s – like One Shot….sounds pitiful – doesn’t it? My arm and back sure appreciate it….and my groups haven’t suffered one bit… Invest in a good action. barrel and trigger… get quality trigger time behind it and your groups will shrink considerably… the very best reloads (single stage or progressive) will not cure most of the common shooting problems I see with even good shooters at the range…

My reloading steps ,why a progressive can't work for me.

swampratt

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Revived

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aviator41

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swampratt

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Old Fart

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acp

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aviator41

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ASP785

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dlbleak

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