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JD8

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Generally, I would agree with you but I'm not convinced Bates really didn't realise he'd pulled a gun instead of his tazer, so I'm inclined to think he's not much better than the guy he shot ...

I sure would like to see ALL the evidence that will be produced at discovery ... and I'd like to read the stipulations ...

Yeah um no. Known the guy for years, and while he was grossly incompetent and I will agree with anyone who says he shouldn't have been out there....but sorry.....he's not a murdering type.... far from.

As far as comparing him to Eric Harris, that's a bit ridiculous to me but YMMV.
 

yukonjack

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Yeah um no. Known the guy for years, and while he was grossly incompetent and I will agree with anyone who says he shouldn't have been out there....but sorry.....he's not a murdering type.... far from.

As far as comparing him to Eric Harris, that's a bit ridiculous to me but YMMV.
No, I don't think he was the murdering type at all. Just too old and incompetent to do the job. Given the circumstances the DA brought the appropriate charge. I don't think he'll get convicted but this does need to be publicly vetted.
 

mugsy

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That is the main problem with Sheriff Offices, the "Good O Boy" system has very deep roots.
I keep hearing this same refrain that Sheriffs Depts. are worse, or more prone to police abuse or corruption than PDs. I think BB's objection is valid here, i.e. Show some evidence. I grew up in NYC with the country's largest and most professionalized PD. yet as a kid I remember we were just coming out of the Knapp Commission scandals (remember Serpico?), likewise again in the 80-90 and there are signs of mini-scandals in the 2010s. So, a long rant to say that while SDs have issues, I am pretty sure PDs have their own and I don't think one is really "cleaner" (or dirtier) than the other - one may have more cronyism, the other may become more isolated into an us/them mentality, etc.
 

Kyle78

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Great Thing about Sheriff's, is that the people elected him, can he can be RECALLED.
Majority of the PD Chiefs are hired by the city council.
Good Ol'Boy system isn't going anywhere, it's a ingrained part of politics.
I've arrested 3 bad cops during 12 years, and investigated a few more.
It's part of the job, and the job does slowly corrupt your sense of morality after a while.
Gotta remember to keep it tight, and above board at all times.
 

BadgeBunny

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Yeah um no. Known the guy for years, and while he was grossly incompetent and I will agree with anyone who says he shouldn't have been out there....but sorry.....he's not a murdering type.... far from.

As far as comparing him to Eric Harris, that's a bit ridiculous to me but YMMV.

Well, wanting to be a big-shot JBT and getting a shot off, and wanting to murder someone are two different things. I never said he wanted to murder the guy ... but I will say that firing a tazer or a gun, and a weapon that was NOT authorized for carry by the department and that he had not qualified with at FA training, into a crowd of people (people who arguably had the BG sufficiently subdued) indicates to me that he really WANTED to get a shot off somewhere besides the training center or range.

I don't generally buy the "poor innocent me, I'm a victim of circumstance" argument from BGs ... and I'm not buying it from him now either. There are standards for LE officers ... This guy does not meet those standards and should be dealt with as harshly as the law will allow, both criminally and civilly ... There is plenty of documentation that he had absolutely no regard for the legality or safety of what he was doing as a reserve officer ... I have no reason to believe he had any regard for either the bad guy here or his fellow officers when he fired off what he says he thought was his tazer ...

Given what I've seen of him when he made the rounds on the national morning television circuit ... and what little I've seen of what went on at TSCO with regard to him and his training (or lack thereof), and his attitude towards the position of reserve deputy, in general, I'll stand by my comments.
 

Lurkerinthewoods

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Well, wanting to be a big-shot JBT and getting a shot off, and wanting to murder someone are two different things. I never said he wanted to murder the guy ... but I will say that firing a tazer or a gun, and a weapon that was NOT authorized for carry by the department and that he had not qualified with at FA training, into a crowd of people (people who arguably had the BG sufficiently subdued) indicates to me that he really WANTED to get a shot off somewhere besides the training center or range.

I don't generally buy the "poor innocent me, I'm a victim of circumstance" argument from BGs ... and I'm not buying it from him now either. There are standards for LE officers ... This guy does not meet those standards and should be dealt with as harshly as the law will allow, both criminally and civilly ... There is plenty of documentation that he had absolutely no regard for the legality or safety of what he was doing as a reserve officer ... I have no reason to believe he had any regard for either the bad guy here or his fellow officers when he fired off what he says he thought was his tazer ...

Given what I've seen of him when he made the rounds on the national morning television circuit ... and what little I've seen of what went on at TSCO with regard to him and his training (or lack thereof), and his attitude towards the position of reserve deputy, in general, I'll stand by my comments.

I agree. First thing that came to mind after seeing the video was " why was this guy even trying to use a taser let alone his firearm" jackass needs to lose a million or two and the TCSO needs a good house cleaning from the head down.
 

JD8

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Well, wanting to be a big-shot JBT and getting a shot off, and wanting to murder someone are two different things. I never said he wanted to murder the guy ... but I will say that firing a tazer or a gun, and a weapon that was NOT authorized for carry by the department and that he had not qualified with at FA training, into a crowd of people (people who arguably had the BG sufficiently subdued) indicates to me that he really WANTED to get a shot off somewhere besides the training center or range.

I don't generally buy the "poor innocent me, I'm a victim of circumstance" argument from BGs ... and I'm not buying it from him now either. There are standards for LE officers ... This guy does not meet those standards and should be dealt with as harshly as the law will allow, both criminally and civilly ... There is plenty of documentation that he had absolutely no regard for the legality or safety of what he was doing as a reserve officer ... I have no reason to believe he had any regard for either the bad guy here or his fellow officers when he fired off what he says he thought was his tazer ...

Given what I've seen of him when he made the rounds on the national morning television circuit ... and what little I've seen of what went on at TSCO with regard to him and his training (or lack thereof), and his attitude towards the position of reserve deputy, in general, I'll stand by my comments.

And I stand by mine, knowing a bit more than what the media tells me. You said you're not fully convinced he didn't realize that he hadn't pulled his tazer. There's a significant amount of video evidence that points to the contrary. Sorry, but if you know him, he's just not that good of an actor to yell tazer and shoot someone because he secretly wants to. That's ridiculous. Anyone that knows him would figure out differently pretty quick.

Now this isn't say he's completely innocent of significant negligence or any wrong doing, that will all pan out I'm sure and don't worry...... Harris' family will get their payday for sure.
 

BadgeBunny

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And I stand by mine, knowing a bit more than what the media tells me. You said you're not fully convinced he didn't realize that he hadn't pulled his tazer. There's a significant amount of video evidence that points to the contrary. Sorry, but if you know him, he's just not that good of an actor to yell tazer and shoot someone because he secretly wants to. That's ridiculous. Anyone that knows him would figure out differently pretty quick.

Now this isn't say he's completely innocent of significant negligence or any wrong doing, that will all pan out I'm sure and don't worry...... Harris' family will get their payday for sure.

I hear ya ... I'm betting that if you talked to other officers who worked with him the "itch" to pull a weapon was not really all that secret ... but, I'm no mental health professional and I haven't actually spent any time with the guy ... my opinions are based solely on what little I've seen and heard (same stuff everyone else has seen and heard) and my experience working ...

No real worries from me other than the problems guys like him create for the good, honest officers out there. Like others have said, justice may be blind but money and influence sure help soften the blowback it seems ...
 

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