Having to another truck

FullAuto said:

I'm just not confident in this trucks ability to hold up over 20 years like what we've been used to. Maybe if it becomes so common place and a mass production of parts can drive the costs down, and repair procedures become more common.... but for now, I just don't want to be part of the learning curve.

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Don't expect longevity out of those ecoboost engines either. For that matter a lot of newer design engines are not going to last at least without major components replaced ( turbos, variable valve timing phasers, actuators, cams, lifters and cyl heads, direct injection pumps, and injectors) Already seeing a bunch of these components failing on vehicles before and barely out of warranty.

What have body shops been doing to repair the countless vehicles that have been using aluminum body panels for years? Almost every manufacturer uses aluminum body panels, a few higher cars are all aluminum but I guess ford is first at using a full body on a high volume vehicle. From what I have noticed aluminum body panels dent very easily, they are the first to suffer damage in hail storms or other small dings, that will be another factor to drive up insurance costs on these.

FullAuto said:

It went from pulling the bumper, tail light, setting the bed back so it could be painted and repairing the bedside for 12 hours at $48/hr to buying the bedside, buying the inner structure that was destroyed when you could separate the skin. buying the front bedside panel that was destroyed attempting to drill out the rivets, buying I think $600 in self piercing rivets and then paying $125/hr to put it all back together. Then paint is $48/hr labor and $38/hr in materials. It required almost 4x the amount of paint and materials because so much additional required replacement.

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I personally wouldn't charge a customer if I screwed up their inner structure or their front bed panel when I was trying to fix the bedside.

doctorjj said:

I've found that you can never argue with an "expert". Lol.
The replacement parts are the same price as the old parts so I don't see an increase being justified. Of course, insurance companies don't always need to justify rate increases!! That Tundra sure won't get the mileage that the new Ecoboost will. I'd seriously consider the new baby Ecoboost. It's right there with the 6.2 Chevy and will outrun the Dodge.
http://youtu.be/23O-hS-r0gQ

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It has been my experience that when you add power and lower displacement, longevity and reliability suffer. A larger engine running more efficiently at less rpms > smaller engine boosted up to higher rpms to match power. Plus the mileage gains just aren't there with the EB from most of what I've read.

farmerbyron said:

It has been my experience that when you add power and lower displacement, longevity and reliability suffer. A larger engine running more efficiently at less rpms > smaller engine boosted up to higher rpms to match power. Plus the mileage gains just aren't there with the EB from most of what I've read.

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90% of the miles put on these trucks aren't under heavy load and don't need a larger engine so the smaller engine can provide all the power needed without having to work hard and is more efficient than the larger motor. My Ecoboost got great mileage. Are they having more reliability issues with the Ecoboosts?

FullAuto said:

I haven't heard any issue that is being corrected. But another thing people aren't considered is the contamination issue between steel and aluminum is going to be a big deal. Anyone that screwed a steel toolbox into that aluminum bed just contaminated the bed. It will eat itself from the inside. Same thing for people that bolt up step rails. If they don't know what they're doing and don't use the proper attachment procedures, their cab is going to eat itself up. I'm just not confident in this trucks ability to hold up over 20 years like what we've been used to. Maybe if it becomes so common place and a mass production of parts can drive the costs down, and repair procedures become more common.... but for now, I just don't want to be part of the learning curve.

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Ford and almost every other automotive manufacturer uses flow drill screws to connect panels together.

doctorjj said:

90% of the miles put on these trucks aren't under heavy load and don't need a larger engine so the smaller engine can provide all the power needed without having to work hard and is more efficient than the larger motor. My Ecoboost got great mileage. Are they having more reliability issues with the Ecoboosts?

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My Tacoma has spend probably a quarter or more of its life pulling tandem trailers with a tractor or implements loaded as well as moving big implements around the different places. I have an 8' pull behind disk that I've pulled over hundreds of cumulative acres to generate food plots, as well as slugging through thick red mud down country roads, so that small engine thing gets put to rest for the Tacoma anyway. With my history of keeping a vehicle for so long, I've been impressed with the stats of the ecoboost, but wary of the consumables in the turbo's, like bearings.

Any 300K ecoboosts?

dennishoddy said:

So connection corrosion ='s dielectric issues. That's not good. My current driver is a 1995, the one prior was a 1982. I don't trade vehicles often, so this issue sure makes me focus on the Tundra now, or an extremely low mileage 2014 F150.

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Dennis, think about this for a minute. How many aluminum flatbeds have you seen? How about aluminum stock trailers and horse trailers? How many of those have melted down around the steel springs and steel spring shackles that were "contaminating" them? ZERO!!! Is galvanic corrosion real? Of course. Is it a concern in this application? No. Not at all. Thinking that screwing a couple holes into your bed with steel screws will cause your entire bed to disintegrate and eat itself up is idiocy. How many aluminum tool boxes have you seen that have melted down due to galvanic corrosion from sitting on a steel pickup truck bed? NONE! EVER!! You know what I have seen? I've seen a lot of rusted out steel trucks and rusted out steel stock trailers. I'll take aluminum with its possible galvanic corrosion over steel with regular old red rust any day.

doctorjj said:

Dennis, think about this for a minute. How many aluminum flatbeds have you seen? How about aluminum stock trailers and horse trailers? How many of those have melted down around the steel springs and steel spring shackles that were "contaminating" them? ZERO!!! Is galvanic corrosion real? Of course. Is it a concern in this application? No. Not at all. Thinking that screwing a couple holes into your bed with steel screws will cause your entire bed to disintegrate and eat itself up is idiocy. How many aluminum tool boxes have you seen that have melted down due to galvanic corrosion from sitting on a steel pickup truck bed? NONE! EVER!! You know what I have seen? I've seen a lot of rusted out steel trucks and rusted out steel stock trailers. I'll take aluminum with its possible galvanic corrosion over steel with regular old red rust any day.

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You make a point. Galvanic corrosion is bad enough that we have to use anodes on our water tanks and boat motors, but the corrosion takes many years to become a problem.

4play said:

What have body shops been doing to repair the countless vehicles that have been using aluminum body panels for years? Almost every manufacturer uses aluminum body panels, a few higher cars are all aluminum but I guess ford is first at using a full body on a high volume vehicle. From what I have noticed aluminum body panels dent very easily, they are the first to suffer damage in hail storms or other small dings, that will be another factor to drive up insurance costs on these.

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Most of your aluminum panel cars have been limited to hoods and a few trunk lids. Have you priced an F150 hood from an older truck? They are about $1200. A Mustang hood made in the last decade is closer to $1500. These are about triple what the steel versions cost and there aren't any aftermarket. If these parts are damaged and need conventional repair, you'll pay more time for the same sized dent and you'll have to replace them sooner. If it's hail damage, you pay a straight 25% more for the same damage, again with much more limited repair capability.

The higher end cars with much more aluminum structure have considerably higher repair costs and higher premiums. There are manufacturers that will only sell certain parts to certified repair facilities. You need a core support for your Mercedes? You can't buy one. Neither can your local body shop. They can't do the repair. There is only 1 shop in the state that can do it. There are 4 shops in Texas, 1 in CO, 1 in MO and 1 in LA. There are none in Kansas, New Mexico or Arkansas. Wreck your car in Little Rock or Santa Fe, we tow them to Edmond. After it's repaired, we'll tow it back to you. Several higher end manufacturers do similar things. And if you've been in the shop that repairs these cars, it's more like a hospital than a body shop.