Kentucky court clerk....

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Dave70968

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Does the same argument apply to the President's deliberate failure to enforce immigration laws?

Actually, no. It's well established that an executive has discretion in how to execute enforcement of the law; in this case, though, we're dealing with a clerical function, not an executive one. Her job is to hand out blank forms, take payment, and file filled-out forms.

Now, it's the governor's executive privilege to determine whether or not to prosecute her for violation of the law, but in her case, she's not executing anything; she's just a file Clerk.

ETA:

To expound: she presumes to arrogate the authority of a judge. It is up to the judge of the relevant court to determine the outcome of a legal matter; she is standing as an obstacle, saying "I won't allow you to see a judge." She is fundamentally violating the little-known fourth clause of the First Amendment ("to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"). She is acting as the final arbiter of claims, saying "the Court will not hear you"). Her position is not to determine the outcome of a claim, but merely to acknowledge that a claim has been filed; yet she refuses to allow a claim to be filed. Furthermore, even when she has had a claim filed against her in a superior court, and has been found in liability, she refuses to comply with an Article IV order (which, under the Supremacy Clause, is the highest authority in the land), duly constituted under the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause.

Put shortly: she has no legal basis upon which to stand. Her job is not to judge, but to shuffle papers, and she refuses to do so. Were she an ordinary employee, she could have been canned long ago, but for some reason, Clerk of Court is an elected position. If anybody can give me a good reason why, I'd love to hear it, but frankly, I don't see her as anything more than a paper-pushing small-s secretary, who ought to be taking filings and issuing receipts as necessary.

But do, please, give me a reason to think otherwise.
 
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RickN

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WOW!!! By now I expected all of you to have jumped in demanding that they start enforcing the federal drug laws in the states that have legalized pot or resign so that they can get people who will enforce the laws on the books.
 

RickN

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Edited to add answer (edit was in progress while you replied; I mean no dishonesty in editing afterward). Note the difference between executive and clerical functions.

Not a problem, and while I do not agree, I do understand what you are saying. I also think she is hoping to get removed or jailed so that she can file suit.
 

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Does the same argument apply to the President's deliberate failure to enforce immigration laws?

It should, but how far back do we go? To Reagan? Do we only charge the Presidents or do start at the bottom with the first sworn officials and work our way up the ladder? That's another discussion though.

What she is doing is no different than chief law enforcement officers refusing to sign off on Class III purchases. We have the right to own these weapons, but some government officials are choosing to deny us these rights based on their personal beliefs.

Her religious freedoms are no more important than a homosexual couple's right to marry.

Are you comfortable with government employees determining which rights they will allow you to enjoy based on their opinions?

What I find truly ironic about this woman is that after multiple divorces she feels that somehow she is defending the sanctity of marriage.
 

Dale00

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Actually, no. It's well established that an executive has discretion in how to execute enforcement of the law; in this case, though, we're dealing with a clerical function, not an executive one. Her job is to hand out blank forms, take payment, and file filled-out forms.

Now, it's the governor's executive privilege to determine whether or not to prosecute her for violation of the law, but in her case, she's not executing anything; she's just a file Clerk.

ETA:

To expound: she presumes to arrogate the authority of a judge. It is up to the judge of the relevant court to determine the outcome of a legal matter; she is standing as an obstacle, saying "I won't allow you to see a judge." She is fundamentally violating the little-known fourth clause of the First Amendment ("to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"). She is acting as the final arbiter of claims, saying "the Court will not hear you"). Her position is not to determine the outcome of a claim, but merely to acknowledge that a claim has been filed; yet she refuses to allow a claim to be filed. Furthermore, even when she has had a claim filed against her in a superior court, and has been found in liability, she refuses to comply with an Article IV order (which, under the Supremacy Clause, is the highest authority in the land), duly constituted under the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause.

Put shortly: she has no legal basis upon which to stand. Her job is not to judge, but to shuffle papers, and she refuses to do so. Were she an ordinary employee, she could have been canned long ago, but for some reason, Clerk of Court is an elected position. If anybody can give me a good reason why, I'd love to hear it, but frankly, I don't see her as anything more than a paper-pushing small-s secretary, who ought to be taking filings and issuing receipts as necessary.

But do, please, give me a reason to think otherwise.

What is the basis of "legal basis'? Is it not the consent of the governed? I understand the logic and reasonableness of your argument but please dig deeper. Others in this thread have impugned the character of the court clerk but I suspect she enjoys the support of the people who elected her. Did the Kentucky legislature or the U.S. Congress vote to legalize gay marriage? No - the Supreme Court acted to legislate judicially.

When the common person perceives that they are being forced to do something against their will, pushback will occur. If you support gay marriage, you may mistakenly view all those who do not as bigots. For those who are irate about the actions of this clerk - please tone down the rhetoric. You are blinding yourself to a full and complete understanding of the issue. Reasonable people can disagree on this issue. Present your arguments dispassionately if you wish to influence the opinions of others. Civil rights - Civil disobedience - Civil discourse.
 

JD8

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What is the basis of "legal basis'? Is it not the consent of the governed? I understand the logic and reasonableness of your argument but please dig deeper. Others in this thread have impugned the character of the court clerk but I suspect she enjoys the support of the people who elected her. Did the Kentucky legislature or the U.S. Congress vote to legalize gay marriage? No - the Supreme Court acted to legislate judicially.

When the common person perceives that they are being forced to do something against their will, pushback will occur. If you support gay marriage, you may mistakenly view all those who do not as bigots. For those who are irate about the actions of this clerk - please tone down the rhetoric. You are blinding yourself to a full and complete understanding of the issue. Reasonable people can disagree on this issue. Present your arguments dispassionately if you wish to influence the opinions of others. Civil rights - Civil disobedience - Civil discourse.

The legal basis is the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. What more do you need?

In all fairness they are bigots, that's not passion, that's just transparency. Some christians don't want to be called out for what they are when they are being hypocrites. It's the same way they justified the treatment of black populations in the south for so many years.
 

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What is the basis of "legal basis'? Is it not the consent of the governed? I understand the logic and reasonableness of your argument but please dig deeper. Others in this thread have impugned the character of the court clerk but I suspect she enjoys the support of the people who elected her. Did the Kentucky legislature or the U.S. Congress vote to legalize gay marriage? No - the Supreme Court acted to legislate judicially.

When the common person perceives that they are being forced to do something against their will, pushback will occur. If you support gay marriage, you may mistakenly view all those who do not as bigots. For those who are irate about the actions of this clerk - please tone down the rhetoric. You are blinding yourself to a full and complete understanding of the issue. Reasonable people can disagree on this issue. Present your arguments dispassionately if you wish to influence the opinions of others. Civil rights - Civil disobedience - Civil discourse.

I'm forced to do things against my will everyday, but those things are part of my job and I accept the responsibility. There really is no arguing that religious intolerance toward homosexuals is not bigotry. Intolerance is kind of the definition of bigotry.

I saw this morning where the crack pot was quoted as saying "this is a heaven or hell issue for me". Really? You don't think those three divorces are going to be an issue?
 

RickN

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What is the basis of "legal basis'? Is it not the consent of the governed? I understand the logic and reasonableness of your argument but please dig deeper. Others in this thread have impugned the character of the court clerk but I suspect she enjoys the support of the people who elected her. Did the Kentucky legislature or the U.S. Congress vote to legalize gay marriage? No - the Supreme Court acted to legislate judicially.

When the common person perceives that they are being forced to do something against their will, pushback will occur. If you support gay marriage, you may mistakenly view all those who do not as bigots. For those who are irate about the actions of this clerk - please tone down the rhetoric. You are blinding yourself to a full and complete understanding of the issue. Reasonable people can disagree on this issue. Present your arguments dispassionately if you wish to influence the opinions of others. Civil rights - Civil disobedience - Civil discourse.

Very well said and something I have been hammering on for years. Even religious people have rights and that includes the right to protest as long as it is peaceful which is what this woman seems to be doing. I know some wish she would go away but then she does not get her say.

We all have rights and that includes the right of everyone here to speak our mind. You do not have to get hateful to make your point and be heard. You also do not have to get mad if not everyone agrees with you. Besides this is the internet, what are you going to do? Bust a caplock in their a$$?
 

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