.357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ttown

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,619
Reaction score
4,791
Location
Oologah
I wonder if they ever found the answer to this issus?

See toward the bottom:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm



.357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

Several readers have contacted us to ask for our opinion of the .357 SIG cartridge, and its effectiveness for personal defense use, particularly when loaded with a 125-grain JHP bullet. Our usual response is that it demonstrates adequate performance, meaning that the bullets are capable of penetrating deeply enough to potentially inflict an effective wound. But it doesn't seem to perform any better than current 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP bullets in terms of penetration and expansion.

We feel .357 SIG appeals to people who are preoccupied with velocity and kinetic energy more than with producing effective wound trauma.

The velocity of the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP bullet doesn't appear to make it superior in penetrating automotive sheet metal, windshield glass or other hard barrier materials than existing 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP JHP bullets. In fact, .357 SIG demonstrates virtually identical performance characteristics as the other cartridges when fired through hard barrier materials.

To ensure JHP bullets wouldn't over-expand and fragment when propelled at .357 SIG velocities, most bullet manufacturers couldn't simply take existing 9mm 124-grain JHP bullets, install them in .357 SIG cases and pronounce the result as ".357 SIG 125-grain JHP," because this would be a step backwards.

Existing 9mm 124-grain bullets, designed for nominal 9mm velocities, would over-expand, fragment and under-penetrate. Essentially, they'd be re-inventing the 9mm 115-grain JHP +P+ cartridge. Therefore, the ammo companies had to design sturdier JHP bullets specifically for the .357 SIG; ones that wouldn't over-expand and fragment in bare gelatin.

They succeeded in designing such bullets, but the bullets appear to be so resistant to over-expansion that they under-expand when passing through clothing. As a result, in shootings involving clothed people (the most common scenario), the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP bullet will more than likely over-penetrate and exit the body.

In a strict wound ballistics sense, over-penetration is better than under-penetration because the bullet will at least have the potential to intersect and bore through vital cardiovascular structures. But over-penetration is also a waste of wounding potential.

In comparison, many 9mm 147-grain subsonic JHP bullets demonstrate better penetration and expansion performance than .357 SIG 125-grain JHPs.

Perhaps in the future the ammo companies will be able to develop better 125-grain bullets for the .357 SIG. But until this happens we feel .357 SIG is a solution to a non-problem.

Feel the need for speed? You'd be better armed with a standard velocity (1100-1150 fps) .40 S&W 165-grain JHP.
 

JD8

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
32,828
Reaction score
45,806
Location
Tulsa
Oh ya.... I was just thinking...... we need a good ballistic dead horse.

Notice no reference was given in the article.... which is antiquated.... much like the whole "solution in search of a problem" phrase that gets applied to just about everything.

I used to get into these wars on Glock Talk. Once you ask the anti .357sig boys (in which I NEVER understood why people concern themselves so much with what other people shoot) to prove there is a critical period in which damage occurs in terms of increasing velocity, rather that it is not a sigmoidal curve..... they shut up, change the arguement, or tout 1294982 year old data using street results or gel. Neither of which are totally accurate. The science involved usually goes over their head pretty quickly..... :D
 

grwd

Sharpshooter
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
11,245
Reaction score
118
Location
usa
exactly;

We feel .357 SIG appeals to people who are preoccupied with velocity and kinetic energy

doesn't seem to perform any better

doesn't appear to make it superior in penetrating automotive sheet metal

doesn't appear to make it superior

we feel .357 SIG is a solution to a non-problem

but the bullets appear to be so resistant to over-expansion

JHP bullet will more than likely over-penetrate


In conclusion, I seem to feel that it appears that these folks that wrote this article are total goons; and are more than likely firearm posers and wannabes.

I would suggest that readers of this and their other articles keep in mind the old adage about opinions and orifices.
 

Mr.357Sig

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
3,735
Reaction score
88
Location
BA
So, my Glock 31 is a piece of crap? Damnit! Guess I'll just chunk it in the garbage can.

Or, better yet, I'll just toss the .357 Sig barrel and get the .40 S&W instead.:loser:
 

azmrb

Sharpshooter
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
3,430
Reaction score
3
Location
Oklahoma City
It looks like this horse isn't dead after all. :P


I'm just looking at the big picture instead of ballistic gel or cavitation theories.

If a major police department switched from .40s&w to .357sig, or vice versa, would there be any significant statistical difference?

I don't think so.

Now if one of you gentlemen can convince me otherwise, and I'm openminded on this subject, I will be glad.

I'm looking to buy a new glock and you just might sway me.
 

redmax51

Sharpshooter
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
7,918
Reaction score
5
Location
Tulsa
It looks like this horse isn't dead after all. :P


I'm just looking at the big picture instead of ballistic gel or cavitation theories.

If a major police department switched from .40s&w to .357sig, or vice versa, would there be any significant statistical difference?

I don't think so.

Now if one of you gentlemen can convince me otherwise, and I'm openminded on this subject, I will be glad.

I'm looking to buy a new glock and you just might sway me.



Out of shorter barrels,hot 9mm comes close to 357.I have a model 31 and 32 and like them but I don't think they are ballisticly "superior" to 9mm or 40 by much.Where the 357 cartridge reall shines is in feeding reliability.Bottleneck cartridges feed better than straight wall ones.On the down side though,the 357 has a massive muzzle blast compared to the other two.I would hate to fire my model 32 indoors w/o hearing protection. Steve
 

ez bake

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,535
Reaction score
0
Location
Tulsa Area
.357 sig costs too much for me to afford shooting the 1000 or so rounds through a self-defense gun before I can feel comfortable shooting it in every situation, so its out for me.

As far as ballistics, its more effective than a .32, so that qualifies it as self-defense to me - I treat them all the same after that - doesn't matter if its a .45acp or a .380 auto - shoot at center of mass until the bad guy falls from sight picture. If bad guy doesn't fall, reload, rinse and repeat.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom