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The Water Cooler
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‘Stand your ground’ law protects shooter in deadly fight over parking space: sheriff
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<blockquote data-quote="Dave70968" data-source="post: 3137172" data-attributes="member: 13624"><p>Due to a similar discussion in another thread, I'm going to put on my pedant hat (again!) and take issue with your statement "...to stop a confrontation."</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69772" target="_blank">21 O.S. 1289.16</a>:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Except for an act of self-defense</strong>, it shall be unlawful for any person to willfully or without lawful cause point a shotgun, rifle or pistol, or any deadly weapon, whether loaded or not, at any person or persons for the purpose of threatening or with the intention of discharging the firearm or with any malice or for any purpose of injuring, either through physical injury or mental or emotional intimidation or for purposes of whimsy, humor or prank, or in anger or otherwise, but not to include the pointing of shotguns, rifles or pistols by law enforcement authorities in the performance of their duties, armed security guards licensed by the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training pursuant to the Oklahoma Security Guard and Private Investigator Act in the performance of their duties, members of the state military forces in the performance of their duties, members of the federal military reserve and active military components in the performance of their duties, or any federal government law enforcement officer in the performance of any duty, or in the performance of a play on stage, rodeo, television or on film, <strong>or in defense of any person, one's home or property</strong>. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in <a href="http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=69773" target="_blank">Section 1289.17</a> of this title.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>"A confrontation" isn't sufficient; it has to be a confrontation such that you reasonably fear for life, home, or property. The discussion elsewhere concerned displaying a firearm in a nonviolent "confrontation" where one person took offense at the appearance of a cargo rack (thought it looked like a gun), and someone offered to display his own gun in response. Sorry, but no, that's not justified; there's no threat to justify pointing. Moreover, you have to have clean hands; the court will not look upon you with favor if you initiated (or escalated) the confrontation. I know somebody serving five years <em>right now</em> for failing on this one: it was a road rage incident, he followed the jerk to the gas station, they both got out of their cars, he came out armed.</p><p></p><p>I hope defending his honor from that middle finger was worth it to him.</p><p></p><p>The other relevant section might be <a href="http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69782" target="_blank">1289.25</a>, specifically subsection J:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px">J. A person pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or <strong>in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony</strong> shall not be deemed guilty of committing a criminal act.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>This is the much-ballyhooed recent change (go through the legislative history at the bottom) specifically allowing for pointing without shooting...but look at it carefully, notably the boldfaced text. The "confrontation" has to constitute a forcible felony. I can be sitting at a restaurant, drinking a wholesome glass of milk, when you come up to me and start shouting all manner of profanity at me. An ugly confrontation, and swearing is still a crime in this state, but not a felony, let alone a forcible felony. Can I still draw down on you?</p><p></p><p>Not so much.</p><p></p><p>I'm sorry to get pedantic about this, but when it comes to misunderstandings that can get people jailed, injured, or killed, I think it's worth it to get things right. The best way to win a gunfight is to <em>not have one</em>. If that means walking away, take the insult and consider the source; as I often say, "I've been called worse by better." If you absolutely insist on drawing your gun over such things, well, I'll let you pick out the leather in my new King Air; it seems only fair, since you'll be paying for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dave70968, post: 3137172, member: 13624"] Due to a similar discussion in another thread, I'm going to put on my pedant hat (again!) and take issue with your statement "...to stop a confrontation." [URL='http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69772']21 O.S. 1289.16[/URL]: [INDENT][B]Except for an act of self-defense[/B], it shall be unlawful for any person to willfully or without lawful cause point a shotgun, rifle or pistol, or any deadly weapon, whether loaded or not, at any person or persons for the purpose of threatening or with the intention of discharging the firearm or with any malice or for any purpose of injuring, either through physical injury or mental or emotional intimidation or for purposes of whimsy, humor or prank, or in anger or otherwise, but not to include the pointing of shotguns, rifles or pistols by law enforcement authorities in the performance of their duties, armed security guards licensed by the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training pursuant to the Oklahoma Security Guard and Private Investigator Act in the performance of their duties, members of the state military forces in the performance of their duties, members of the federal military reserve and active military components in the performance of their duties, or any federal government law enforcement officer in the performance of any duty, or in the performance of a play on stage, rodeo, television or on film, [B]or in defense of any person, one's home or property[/B]. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in [URL='http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=69773']Section 1289.17[/URL] of this title. [/INDENT] "A confrontation" isn't sufficient; it has to be a confrontation such that you reasonably fear for life, home, or property. The discussion elsewhere concerned displaying a firearm in a nonviolent "confrontation" where one person took offense at the appearance of a cargo rack (thought it looked like a gun), and someone offered to display his own gun in response. Sorry, but no, that's not justified; there's no threat to justify pointing. Moreover, you have to have clean hands; the court will not look upon you with favor if you initiated (or escalated) the confrontation. I know somebody serving five years [I]right now[/I] for failing on this one: it was a road rage incident, he followed the jerk to the gas station, they both got out of their cars, he came out armed. I hope defending his honor from that middle finger was worth it to him. The other relevant section might be [URL='http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69782']1289.25[/URL], specifically subsection J: [INDENT]J. A person pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or [B]in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony[/B] shall not be deemed guilty of committing a criminal act. [/INDENT] This is the much-ballyhooed recent change (go through the legislative history at the bottom) specifically allowing for pointing without shooting...but look at it carefully, notably the boldfaced text. The "confrontation" has to constitute a forcible felony. I can be sitting at a restaurant, drinking a wholesome glass of milk, when you come up to me and start shouting all manner of profanity at me. An ugly confrontation, and swearing is still a crime in this state, but not a felony, let alone a forcible felony. Can I still draw down on you? Not so much. I'm sorry to get pedantic about this, but when it comes to misunderstandings that can get people jailed, injured, or killed, I think it's worth it to get things right. The best way to win a gunfight is to [I]not have one[/I]. If that means walking away, take the insult and consider the source; as I often say, "I've been called worse by better." If you absolutely insist on drawing your gun over such things, well, I'll let you pick out the leather in my new King Air; it seems only fair, since you'll be paying for it. [/QUOTE]
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