100 years down the drain

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NikatKimber

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MoBoost,

I'm with you on the not needing it to start with ".30". Not saying .30 is a good caliber. I have three rifles, 5.5mm, 6mm, and 7mm. Particularly fond of both the 6 and 7.

If for some reason we had to have only one rifle to do everything with, the cartridges you mentioned would be great compromises for everything. But the simple fact is that we don't. I can have a .22-250 for prairie dogs and other long range vermin hunting, I can have a .338 Lapua for killing anything in the crosshairs at 1500yds, and I can have a 7mm-08 for short-to mid range deer, and a 7mm wsm for long range. Why limit yourself to just one?

As to metallurgy. There have been advancements, like it or not.
As to the test pressure, .22-250 has operating pressures up to 63.7ksi, .243 WSSM has operating pressures up to 63.8ksi, both more than 33% higher than the max operating pressure of 46k of 7x57, and only 3% less than TEST pressures for the 7x57.

I'll give you this: while we may not have had much in "revolutionary" firearms development in the last century, how long was it previous to that before the last "revolutionary" period of development? Centuries wasn't it?

From muzzle loading smooth bore black powder I see the revolutionary advances being:
Rifling
Self Contained Cartridge
Breech Loading / Repeaters (made possible primarily by above)
Self Loading

I know it's been worked on, but I would have to say I see the next big advancement coming in the form of "caseless" cartridges.
 

ldp4570

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MoBoost,



I know it's been worked on, but I would have to say I see the next big advancement coming in the form of "caseless" cartridges.

Thats already been tried by Walther an H&K, both were major failures. The only partially caseless ammo thats been a a barn burner is the 120MM tank round for the M1 Abrams.
 

HiredHand

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Caseless ammo would suck for the reloader.

I think its pretty cool that black powder is still around after well over 100yrs of smokeless powder being available.
 

NikatKimber

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Thats already been tried by Walther an H&K, both were major failures. The only partially caseless ammo thats been a a barn burner is the 120MM tank round for the M1 Abrams.

Like I said, I'm aware it's been tried. But it hasn't been successful in small arms yet.

Caseless ammo would suck for the reloader.

This is true.

Caseless ammo is as old as firearms ... but breach-loading patent is rather recent - 1809 to be exact :)

How many reliability issues revolve around ejecting the spent case? At least 50% if I was guessing. So by perfecting a caseless ammo you could immediately double the reliability.
 

MoBoost

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How many reliability issues revolve around ejecting the spent case? At least 50% if I was guessing. So by perfecting a caseless ammo you could immediately double the reliability.

I'll buy that - it is possible that future weapons will be caseless - but that doesn't pull 20th century out of the centerfire development pooper:offtopic:

I looked and I couldn't find any documentation or proof of any advancements in firearm metallurgy since 1890s, does anybody have any sources?
 

NikatKimber

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Not firearm specific, but knowledge and capability in metallurgy in general has improved.

But then, you would say that would fall under "stretching/sizing/changing" existing designs.

But then, you weren't talking about firearms in general in the OP, just cartridges.

I for one wouldn't want to go back to 1890 in firearms. Period.
 

ldp4570

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The biggest issue with caseless ammo is with the primer, caseless reqiures an electronic ignition not a standard firing pin strike. When your riding around in 70 tons of steel with lots of electricity, the primer issue doesn't raise its ugly head unless your tank dies electrically. With a shoulderfired gun, it means its got to have a battery source. Even with lithium all the rage, its still not reliable enough to withstand all the abuse of the battlefield, and they just don't.
 

NikatKimber

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The biggest issue with caseless ammo is with the primer, caseless reqiures an electronic ignition not a standard firing pin strike. When your riding around in 70 tons of steel with lots of electricity, the primer issue doesn't raise its ugly head unless your tank dies electrically. With a shoulderfired gun, it means its got to have a battery source. Even with lithium all the rage, its still not reliable enough to withstand all the abuse of the battlefield, and they just don't.

Like I said, I would see caseless ammunition and the firearms that go along with it to be a completely revolutionary development.
 

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