.

[druryj]

Keep it clean fellers. We can all have an opinion.

 

[nich018]

I like it, but always liked the Sig p238 and 938

 

[okierider]

The ARX is doing the job just fine in the 380!! And they recently came out for the 38 as well!!

 

[CGS1]

 

[NikatKimber]

They both are a modified version of the old Colt PocketLite/Mustang.

I'd like to get my hands on a P3-AT. It still offers the highest power density of all the micro guns. 7rds of .380 in 10.7oz (loaded).

I'm not a fan of .380, but there are times I could carry that when I couldn't carry a gun.

 

[druryj]

You have no worries carrying a 380 because you havnt shot anyone with one. 380 often comes up short on penetration, especially hollow points. There are MANY cases where a 380 got less than 4inches of penetration.

A lot of you guys are looking at gel tests and thinking that's how it works in the human body. Guys it doesn't. Gel test aren't wearing clothes and dont have ribs and a sternum to contend with. Not to mention that human tissue/organs are a lot tougher than gel. That massive expansion you see in gel tests isn't stopping any human for but a moment

No; I have no worries because I am confident in my capabilities with a handgun...of pretty much any caliber. I didn't say .380 was the end all do all, just that I'm okay with it if I have to settle for it. Now, it is true that I have not shot anyone with a .380, but my experience with other calibers is sufficient that I do think I am qualified to state my opinion.

 

[1911master]

They both are a modified version of the old Colt PocketLite/Mustang.

I'd like to get my hands on a P3-AT. It still offers the highest power density of all the micro guns. 7rds of .380 in 10.7oz (loaded).

I'm not a fan of .380, but there are times I could carry that when I couldn't carry a gun.

Of which was a version of the Star D, DK, BM, BKM, Ect

 

[adamsredlines]

I got "carry lazy" when I got my P238...it goes everywhere in my pocket and my $1,500 Kimber pretty much became a safe queen. This new Springer looks just like the P238/Kimber Micro/Colt Mustang. I think it'll be popular.

If you want penetration in a .380, look up Buffalo Bore. 1,065fps with 100gr hard cast flat nose getting north of 30" of penetration on ballistics gelatin. I have a few boxes of it but have never shot it. Its pretty friggin spicy for a .380

 

[Go_Ordnance]

I’ve got quite a few mouse guns, most in 9mm. For summer the Kahr P380 is about as handy and concealable as it gets. I put 99gr HSTs in mine.

For those that want to argue that it ain’t enough gun, feel free to post the countless cases of folks that died trying to protect themselves with the “barely adequate or inadequate ” caliber. I’m sure Mas Ayoob has them posted on the internet along with his opinion.

 

[rc508pir]

So what happened when you shot someone with a .380? What load did you use?

Surely some loads are crap, but the loads I just posted are not.

Gel tests are incomplete for reference to the human body that is true, however it's the best we have.

That's the thing, they are not the best we have. For the average guy that's making his own gel, yeah. But Ammo manufacturers have a load more money to get and use those body trauma dummies. They have simulated bones and organs in them. Even light clothing can often make a difference in penetration depth. Penetration by the way is FAR more important than expansion in the body cavity. The expansion you see in gel tests is NOT indicative in any form of damaged tissue.

Contrary to popular belief these days, energy is very important in SD loads. its what carries the bullet mass through the body.

By the way, what gun, or length of the test barrel was that load you posted?

No; I have no worries because I am confident in my capabilities with a handgun...of pretty much any caliber. I didn't say .380 was the end all do all, just that I'm okay with it if I have to settle for it. Now, it is true that I have not shot anyone with a .380, but my experience with other calibers is sufficient that I do think I am qualified to state my opinion.

Your skill has nothing to do with a hand gun in any caliber if bullet performance is lacking. on more than a few occasions 380 cal bullets have been stopped short and prevented enough damage to stop an attacker. Your skill means nothing if your on the mark but your bullet only penetrated 4inches in a average sized guy (or woman, gotta be PC LOL)

Physics is physics. Powder can only expand at a certain rate (given the type of powder) and a 90/95 grain bullet can only be driven so fast and keep enough energy to possibly punch trough bone/layers of clothing and get to a proper depth.

Another thing to consider is the gun itself. 95% or so of the 380 caliber guns out there are mouse guns with less than a 3 inch barrel. A bullet fired from those barrels are not even starting with a good MV to begin with. Take Speer Gold Dots. One of the more popular and reliable SD cartridges out there.
-In 380 the test barrel was 3.75in. How many 380 ACP guns have a 3.75in barrel? The stated MV is 1040fps for a 90gr bullet. That puts the energy at 216 flb. Your not getting 216 flb with a barrel a full inch shorter in a gun like the Ruger LCP