9mm .40 .45 ?

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mugsy

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Putting the round on the (right part of the) target matters most for typical civilian encounters for self-defense. There are also practical matters of effective concealment of your weapon and the economics of ammo (9mm is cheap because the military market has manufacturers tooled to produce billions of rounds).

All the other stuff is extrapolation and assumption - take your preference. Why not .41 magnum? Its a great round so if you like it knock yourself out but I find the 9mm is a good all-around mix of capability and cost. If I want a lot more power I probably need a long gun.
 

aking

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As a kid/young teenager we would have bb gun wars. The rule was we could only pump our air rifles one time per shot. i shot a buddy in the eye and it did an excellent job of "stopping the threat". He curled up on the ground and cried like a 2 yr old. I can say this because we are still friends and can see perfect out of the eye and after a few years he got up enough guts to tell his parents and have the bb removed from his eye lid. This to say I carry a 9mm when packing heavy and a 380 the rest of the time. I can do more accurate shots in the same amount of time with my 9mm than any other gun I own, including my 460mag (hehe). I've never checked to see if you can legally conceal a loaded air rifle! Plus I would have to buy a better belt to carry most 45s
 

dennishoddy

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Stopping the person in his tracks and knocking him down won't happen with 9mm, .40, or .45.

I have to disagree with this statement.
Any round, be it .22 short to a .500 S&W hitting the central nervous system, will instantly put the threat on the ground in a half second.


"Stopping power" is nothing but hollywood BS and a statement used by people that watch movies and see people blown backwards by a 9mm after taking a hit.

Trust me, I've seen people hit multiple times by CF rifle rounds at the same time. They just fold up and fall.
 

MoBoost

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On second thought, I may have to re-evaluate my opinion. Here's some new research on the subject. It says some things we all should already know (all handguns suck in the stopping power dept.), and some others that are pretty startling.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

That's a great study! Thanks for sharing. It just needs to keep data added over more and more years.
 

Shadowrider

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Ok time to chime in again. To bring back my question when i first started this thread .In my opinion in self defense you are going to be uber close to the perp. Maybe I am wrong but in my thinking at a distance of a few feet my 9mm armed with 115 gr Winchester SXZ JHP should work just as good as a .40 or .45.

Okay I'll give my two cents. Bear in mind that's a little more than it's worth.

In the '80's when I got into guns, I wouldn't even consider a 9mm for SD. It had a very long track record of being anemic. It's only redeeming value to me was that there was some most excellent guns chambered for it. Fast forward to today with the advances in bullet construction and you will find me carrying a 9mm most of the time.

As long as you stay away from the gimicky loads and stick to a proven, modern loading a 9mm is plenty adequate. Federal Hydra-Shocks, HST, Remington Golden Sabre, Speer Gold Dot, most all of the Cor-Bon and Winchester SXT are all good. My personal preference is Speer Gold Dot +P or +P+ (in a gun that will handle them like a Sig, Glock, M&P, etc.). But any in this list are going to be just fine. Find the one that runs in your gun and if one or several do, use the one that's most accurate.

All that said, I'm still a little "old school" in that I don't place a lot of faith in the lighter bullet weights. I'm a firm believer in big heavy bullets based on my hunting experience. I don't think that the 115 is the one I'd pick, I don't even use them in .357 Mag either. In 9mm my choice is 124 grain, in .40 and .45 you get a little more leeway because of the increased momentum. In .40 it's almost hard to find a JHP SD load that DOESN'T work well from what I've read. And in .45, well even the old 230 grain ball round has a good stopping record, it's not my choice, but it'll do in a pinch. Can't really say that about any of the others.

Here's what I have on hand for SD loads.

9mm - Speer Gold Dot, 124gr +P
.38SP - Speer Gold Dot, 135gr +P Short Barrel
.357 Mag - Cor-Bon, 125gr JHP, Remington and Winchetser 125 JHPs are fine too, I just happen to have the Cor-Bons on hand
.45 - Cor-Bon 200gr +P JHP
 

Iwant1

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Why is this always a debate? I think it's a pride issue. The real answer to these debates is this: Whatever each person has is the best! That's the only real answer for us manly men who can't except reality....
After reading I can't help but add my two cents. To get the most out of any caliber whether it be for animals or humans, you always want the bullet to enter, and STOP if possible. If not stop, slow it down as much as possible. The reason being, is because every bullet has energy and we want our target to receive as much of that energy as possible. If the bullet leaves the target after striking it, that is lost energy and then becomes a huge risk factor as well. The goal then is to choose a caliber, bullet style and brand that will enter and slow down as much as possible if not stop.
For illustrations sake, imagine a needle that weighs 1 pound and is projected at 1000 fps. The small diameter of the needle + the weight of the needle (momentum) + the velocity would result in a highly penetrating bullet. The penetration would be EXTREMELY dangerous. This is why .22's have so much penetration or a .223 as well. Now, on the other end of of the spectrum imagine a larger diameter object like a marble (3/4" diam.) being projected at just enough velocity for human penetration. Because of the large diameter and the slow velocity, the results will be similar to being punched with a fist (except with more blood). Have you ever wondered why a person being shot with a bullet having around 450 foot pounds of energy doesn't actually push the object back 5 feet? But if you punch someone in the chest with all of a man's force, the fist does not penetrate but pushes the individual back around 5 feet in some/most cases knocking them down. This knock down power is based on the velocity and the diameter of the fist versus the bullet. The bullet causes more destruction, but the fist actually pushes the assailant off of you and pushes them back 5 feet. Therefore, the idea is to find a bullet/caliber that will penetrate, open up and slow down as much as possible before exiting for the object to receive as much of the bullets energy as possible.
So the next time you're out in the woods, shoot stuff with different calibers and see the results for yourself.
I will add that there are many variables to the above ideas. Distance and barrel lengths make a big difference and also if you custom load your ammo. There may be cases where you want more penetration (like bear hunting) or for Law Enforcement scenarios and the above ideas would be irrelevant.
Please let me know if you guys agree or if I was unclear.
 
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ERIC FUSON

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Over penetration is only a problem when considering any other bi standers in the area. Most hunting rifle rounds need to exit the target to get the best total wound channel possible. Unfortunately rifle ballistics do not translate to pistol ballistics. You need approx 2200 FPS to acheive tempory wound channels. 9,40,or 45 are not going to make that. That tells me that pistol bullets just poke holes. I have also shot many game animals with 9,40 and 45, and have observed very little difference in the time it takes the animal to go down with proper shot placement. On occasion i have also seen animals be alive long after the shot if placement was a little off. Only about 30% of people shot by handguns in this country die from the wound. All you really need to have an effective defense round is a projectile that will penetrate at least 12" of human flesh and bone. This will allow the bullet to actually get somewhere that can cause massive bleeding, loss of blood pressure and eventually the "stop" that you want. Put a bullet through a major artery and you still have an assailant that can fight for 3 minutes on average. Gun fight are over in much less time than that on average. Velosity is also of less importance that weight and construction of the bullet for penetration. 9mm will always penetrate more ballistic gel that 223 fmj, even though 223 is moving over 3000 fps. This age old argument can be settled by the test of what do you shoot fastest and most accurate. As Tom Givens says," A good hit with a marginal bullet is always better than a marginal hit with a good bullet.

Hope this helps.
 

Koshinn

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Over penetration is only a problem when considering any other bi standers in the area. Most hunting rifle rounds need to exit the target to get the best total wound channel possible. Unfortunately rifle ballistics do not translate to pistol ballistics. You need approx 2200 FPS to acheive tempory wound channels. 9,40,or 45 are not going to make that. That tells me that pistol bullets just poke holes. I have also shot many game animals with 9,40 and 45, and have observed very little difference in the time it takes the animal to go down with proper shot placement. On occasion i have also seen animals be alive long after the shot if placement was a little off. Only about 30% of people shot by handguns in this country die from the wound. All you really need to have an effective defense round is a projectile that will penetrate at least 12" of human flesh and bone. This will allow the bullet to actually get somewhere that can cause massive bleeding, loss of blood pressure and eventually the "stop" that you want. Put a bullet through a major artery and you still have an assailant that can fight for 3 minutes on average. Gun fight are over in much less time than that on average. Velosity is also of less importance that weight and construction of the bullet for penetration. 9mm will always penetrate more ballistic gel that 223 fmj, even though 223 is moving over 3000 fps. This age old argument can be settled by the test of what do you shoot fastest and most accurate. As Tom Givens says," A good hit with a marginal bullet is always better than a marginal hit with a good bullet.

Hope this helps.

Unless the good bullet is explosive or .50 BMG. Or explosive .50 BMG. Then pretty much any hit, no matter how marginal, will take them down.
 

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