A Good One.

[Snattlerake]

Obama giving aid to those countries was a humanitarian effort. I have no issue with that.
Building this wall will accomplish absolutely nothing.
I'm not a Lib either, just real. Start hammering employers who hire illegals, and hammer them HARD. That will completely stop this issue of illegal immigration.
If they can't get a job, they have no reason to want to be here.

How can you actually say a wall will not help? A wall will deter them from crossing in places that are very inhospitable and like 918evo said it will funnel them toward places we can expend better surveillance resources. I do agree a sea to sea wall is not needed, yet, but a wall is needed. Period.

 

[Glocktogo]

Obama giving aid to those countries was a humanitarian effort. I have no issue with that.
Building this wall will accomplish absolutely nothing.
I'm not a Lib either, just real. Start hammering employers who hire illegals, and hammer them HARD. That will completely stop this issue of illegal immigration.
If they can't get a job, they have no reason to want to be here.

I don't have a problem with certain humanitarian efforts either, but you have no PROOF that walls don't do something. That's your opinion, not fact. Your worn cliché about Visa overstays is just that, worn. CRIMINAL illegal aliens who've been previously deported don't get Visas. CRIMINAL illegal aliens often don't even get jobs, so hammering employers won't do squat to discourage them. Discouraging CRIMINAL illegal aliens should be top priority, but any mitigation efforts that allow BP resources to be focused towards high frequency crossings and make it more difficult so as to discourage all other crossings is guess what? Doing something.

So I have to ask whether this is really all about the money since the .gov wastes trillions every year, or if it's because it actually WILL do something, which is what illegal immigration proponents are so obviously against.

#32YEARS

 

[CHenry]

I don't have a problem with certain humanitarian efforts either, but you have no PROOF that walls don't do something. That's your opinion, not fact. Your worn cliché about Visa overstays is just that, worn. CRIMINAL illegal aliens who've been previously deported don't get Visas. CRIMINAL illegal aliens often don't even get jobs, so hammering employers won't do squat to discourage them. Discouraging CRIMINAL illegal aliens should be top priority, but any mitigation efforts that allow BP resources to be focused towards high frequency crossings and make it more difficult so as to discourage all other crossings is guess what? Doing something.

So I have to ask whether this is really all about the money since the .gov wastes trillions every year, or if it's because it actually WILL do something, which is what illegal immigration proponents are so obviously against.

#32YEARS

Yeah it's my opinion based on common sense. Telling me that a person overstaying their visa, isnt criminal is just pure funny and maybe you didnt mean it that way. The pure fact is, that is a more widely use method to get here and stay here - illegally..
I really dont care if they build a wall and spend a few billion doing it. But I stand by my assertion that it will not fix the problem. Not even 50%, will it reduce some of the crossing? Well duh, of course it will but they will just find another way.
That is my opinion.

 

[Glocktogo]

Yeah it's my opinion based on common sense. Telling me that a person overstaying their visa, isnt criminal is just pure funny and maybe you didnt mean it that way. The pure fact is, that is a more widely use method to get here and stay here - illegally..
I really dont care if they build a wall and spend a few billion doing it. But I stand by my assertion that it will not fix the problem. Not even 50%, will it reduce some of the crossing? Well duh, of course it will but they will just find another way.
That is my opinion.

Your "common sense" must be on the fritz then. Walls and fences have been used successfully (and unsuccessfully) for eons. And I didn't say overstaying a Visa wasn't a crime. I said CRIMINAL aliens who've been previously deported, (you know, the ones we see the tragic death stories about on the news?) don't overstay Visas because they're ineligible for them.

100% of them will not just find another way. If you make it too dangerous and too onerous to cross, and then increase the odds of being caught because the other resources can be concentrated, it will deter more than a few. That is the literal definition of "doing something". When and only when the border security is beefed up to the extent practicable (and $8B is eminently practicable under the circumstances), we can move on to address all the other immigration deficiencies. The promise was made 32 years ago and reneged on. It must be rectified before moving forward.

 

[CHenry]

Your "common sense" must be on the fritz then. Walls and fences have been used successfully (and unsuccessfully) for eons.

I never said a fence wont have an impact, but I garrandamntee ya, it wont have the impact that some think it will and there's also NO proof that it WILL or WONT.
It's really fine if you disagree with me, honestly it is.
Just dont be a prick about it...mmmkay?

 

[918evo]

We are not trying to say that the wall is a fix-all that will stop all illegal Hispanic immigration, but it will slow it down dramatically. Overstaying work and student visas is a small portion of the way illegal immigrants get here; most crossed through the desert and very dangerous terrain. With a more difficult to cross border, the other ways of getting here will be more expensive(higher demand). More money means less can afford to do it.

 

[CHenry]

Overstaying work and student visas is a small portion of the way illegal immigrants get here; most crossed through the desert and very dangerous terrain. With a more difficult to cross border, the other ways of getting here will be more expensive(higher demand). More money means less can afford to do it.

That is simply not true. Look it up, I even posted the data but no one looked I guess.

 

[Cowcatcher]

I support building the wall/barrier/fence/deterring arrangement of materials thingy and I also support fixing all the other illegal immigration issues mentioned above. Even if illegal border crossings are a small hole in the dam filled with large holes, it's still a hole that needs fixed. I don't know what size any of the holes are but if they are a hole....fix em!

 

[Glocktogo]

That is simply not true. Look it up, I even posted the data but no one looked I guess.

The problem is that your "data" are statistics that have been manipulated. If you look here:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...sitors-to-u-s-who-overstay-deadline-to-leave/

You'll see that of all the Visa overstays, only about 31% of the Visa overstays have any correlation to the Southern border. The rest are from North of America or overseas. Even if you assumed 152,000 overstays from Central and South America every year for 32 years, that still only accounts for 4.9 million of the estimated 11-20 million illegal immigrants in America.

Further, the overstays are predominantly entries through airports and seaports. That's 54 million people entering the United States on a Visa per year. So 98.5% of all Visa holders depart on time. If someone overstays their Visa by ONE DAY, that's an overstay and it's added in the total. How many of them have already left whether it's a day, a week or a month late? Funny, you don't see those numbers posted in the media do you? That's because it doesn't fit the narrative.

And yet again, no one who's ever been previously deported from the United States is eligible for a Visa. They're denied. So whether they've been apprehended after overstaying a Visa, detained for crossing the border illegally, caught smuggling drugs or humans, arrested for DUI, robbery or murder, THOSE people cross the border illegally. They don't get Visas.

The reason I'm "being a prick" is because you're parroting leftist, pro-illegal immigration talking points. They're designed to mislead and create a false narrative. So stop promoting falsehoods under the guise of "statistics".

 

[Fyrtwuck]

A wall will slow some down and discourage others, but there are numerous documentaries on TV that have shown tunnels underneath. There are so many that the Border Patrol created their own version of a Tunnel Rat unit to crawl through them looking for drugs and couriers.

There is no perfect solution, but something needs to be done. The catch and release program isn’t working and it’s common knowledge that some cities self proclaim themselves as sanctuary cities and won’t turn them over to the feds when they commit crimes. So, what’s the solution? They walk all over us and we let them.