Acorn falls on hood = shoot at handcuffed suspect

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

KurtM

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
2,427
Reaction score
2,825
Location
Edmond
Well, destruction of city property comes right to mind of a charge. Wreckless endangerment comes bubbling up, culpable mental state or not, but I digress. I agree on one thing, his department and training let him down. Over the last 25 years that I have been involved in training L.E. I have noticed a very disturbing trend of fear based training which has become wide spread in almost all aspects of training. Older training was more like be wary and make sure you see hands to now a days, treat every interaction as if they intend to kill you. Get the wrong guy, scared of his own shadow, any loud noise and wah lah, you get a guy shooting across his partner seated in the car to shoot the complainant at the window of the car because you "thought" you heard a loud noise (Minnesota), or this fine stalwart who is so sure he was being fired upon he shot up his own car and fell to the ground "wounded". By merely saying you can't understand because you've never done the job at some level implies that he is less at fault, or at least should be treated with less harshness, and at that point we can agree to disagree.
 

Beautiful Mulberry

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
1,336
Location
Oklahoma
Please point out to me where I asked anyone to give either of these officers any benefit of the doubt or where I defended anything they did. Go ahead... I'll wait. Or, let me save you the time and effort. I didn't. Not at all. I never made any statement in support of their actions so you can't possibly know how I felt about it. And that's typical of so many on this forum. They pretend to be experts on something they know nothing about and couldn't be objective regarding a situation like this to save their lives. Should some of these people ever screw up in life and face legal consequences for their actions I sincerely hope they have people on their jury who are just like they are when looking at the evidence...incapable of critical thought, incapable of objective reasoning and totally biased against them.

The reality is this. The officer f'd up. Huge. So did the Sgt. There is no way in the world to justify shooting into a vehicle at a threat you can't see and really haven't identified. My guess is this guy was some sort of affirmative action (or similar program) hire. And we're getting exactly the type of police service many have been asking for over the years.

So, for those without the ability to consider any aspect of this situation besides the fact the officers fired numerous shots into a car at a threat they couldn't see, I'm not defending what they did. But I can also see a few things in this video that are exceedingly obvious:

The officer was obviously and truly panicked by a noise he thought was a gunshot. Now, if anyone knows anything about police work, which most people here don't because they've never done it, then you'd know that cops in general know little about guns. Most of them wouldn't carry a gun if it wasn't a requirement of the job. Even fewer know what a suppressed gunshot sounds like. This guy honestly thought he heard a gunshot and if you can't see that from the video then you're just a moron ("you" in the general sense...not specifically towards one person). He was so frightened and panicked thinking he'd been hit that he was nearly debilitated and unable to act.

So, while I don't condone what he did and I think it was a monumental f-up, I understand what happened based on his obvious emotional state and reaction. I also understand what a culpable mental state is. People are saying (not necessarily here) that he should be charged and blah, blah, f'n blah. Many crimes require a culpable mental state. Some lesser offenses (reckless endangerment comes to mind) that don't require a culpable mental state might come into play but any reasonably competent attorney could easily show this guy had no criminal intent. There's really no point in charging him with anything since no one was hurt. That in no way assumes he shouldn't face civil liability...which, I can guarantee, he will and he should. It's the same people who prattle on about qualified immunity when they have zero understanding of what that actually entails. So, yeah...the stupidity is tiresome.

Personally, I think the Sgt's actions were more egregious than the officers. I'm finding it hard to defend her actions in shooting into the car. On the other hand, I think she did a good job of attempting to verify the officer was OK and dealing with the screaming idiot trying her damnedest to make a bad situation worse.

I also think both of these officers have been failed by their departments and by a society that values gender and race over ability.



Yeah... I think you know he's not who I'm referring to.

Most of the mentally challenged who make ridiculous comments on this forum are the same type who will walk up to an officer holding a gun on a suspect, while screaming at the suspect to drop a weapon or something like that, and ask the officer for directions or something else dumb. In terms of police work I do think most of the public is stupid. Information is out there they just refuse to absorb it and can do nothing but criticize something they don't understand. I guess they'd rather put their ignorance on display for others.
Your good at writing and making your point,
This place could be a TV series!
 

OneMoreEvan

Snake Eater
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Oct 24, 2022
Messages
334
Reaction score
885
Location
Norman
Cops are good at covering for cops. :rolleyes2
You know that if it was a concealed carrier or an armed security guard or something, he would be sitting in jail for at the very least attempted murder and I'm sure a whole host of other charges right now. Rules for thee and all that. Tyrants love the privilege that comes with having a monopoly on violence.
 

TANSTAAFL

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
4,123
Reaction score
8,170
Location
Oklahoma City
Looks Like Mag Dumps are the new tactical move for police:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Woman approached her front door with a gun in hand, unaware of what would happen next <a href="https://t.co/qOtGHryZIo">pic.twitter.com/qOtGHryZIo</a></p>&mdash; Crime Net (@TRIGGERHAPPYV1) <a href="">February 21, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


More here:

https://x.com/githii/status/1760427161725345865?s=20
 

OK Corgi Rancher

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
7,909
Reaction score
25,074
Location
Greater Francis, OK metropolitan area
You know that if it was a concealed carrier or an armed security guard or something, he would be sitting in jail for at the very least attempted murder and I'm sure a whole host of other charges right now. Rules for thee and all that. Tyrants love the privilege that comes with having a monopoly on violence.

No, he wouldn't. This has nothing to do with tyrants. It has to do with how the law works and elements of various crimes. Attempted murder requires a culpable mental state that includes intent and conduct that plainly shows that intent. There is no way any rational, reasonable person can watch that video and come to the conclusion this guy didn't think he was in some sort of grave danger. On the other hand, maybe that explains a lot about some of the comments we see here after an incident like this. I've already explained that to anyone who's paid attention. Some property damage crime or some type of recklessness charge with a firearm are about it.

I do have sympathy for the officer, but think that affirmative action hire is not a good excuse, and points out major issues with the hiring system.

If for the sake of diversity an airline hires a pilot who has only had Piper Cub experience to fly a 737 and he or she crashes it, that does not excuse their actions (they took a job they new was over their head,) or that of the airline. I can see PTSD as a possible issue, however the public trust of our officers is absolutely essential. I doubt if I or anyone here mag dumped into their car in public we would have no consequences and be permitted to carry.

It's only speculation and not an excuse. I threw that out there only as a possible reason he had been hired in the first place...that being due to the current political climate many agencies are not hiring the best and brightest. It's almost like they were hiring from OSA...

No one on this forum was there. No one knows exactly what was going thru the mind of this officer, though we have some pretty good clues based on his behavior.

And there are plenty of pilots who probably shouldn't be in the cockpit. We see evidence of that frequently, too. As a matter of fact there was something in the mainstream media recently (and maybe posted here) regarding airlines hiring pilots based on race to fill diversity quotas. It happens.

Just asking, can you think of any good reason to mag dump into your car (I may add with a suspect in the back seat) after you hear an acorn hit your hood or roof? I cannot except for a variety of reasons that may preclude the police officer from duty. Thank you.

Well, duh... Not if you hear an acorn hit your car and you know that's all it was. Of course, that's not at all what happened here. Or are you another one who just has to change the narrative to fit your prejudices?

Well, destruction of city property comes right to mind of a charge. Wreckless endangerment comes bubbling up, culpable mental state or not, but I digress. I agree on one thing, his department and training let him down. Over the last 25 years that I have been involved in training L.E. I have noticed a very disturbing trend of fear based training which has become wide spread in almost all aspects of training. Older training was more like be wary and make sure you see hands to now a days, treat every interaction as if they intend to kill you. Get the wrong guy, scared of his own shadow, any loud noise and wah lah, you get a guy shooting across his partner seated in the car to shoot the complainant at the window of the car because you "thought" you heard a loud noise (Minnesota), or this fine stalwart who is so sure he was being fired upon he shot up his own car and fell to the ground "wounded". By merely saying you can't understand because you've never done the job at some level implies that he is less at fault, or at least should be treated with less harshness, and at that point we can agree to disagree.

Well...I mentioned reckless endangerment as a potential charge. One of the many reasons I left LE when I did. The 'us' vs 'them' mentality and the para-militarization of many departments and policies wasn't something I was down with. The tide was already turning to a much more kindler and gentler approach to policing. Now it's not only turned but it's swamped the entire law enforcement culture. There's no way I could do it again. Like I said...our society as a whole has finally got the type of law enforcement they've always wanted. And, SHOCKER, now they don't like. Too f'n bad...because that genie ain't going back in the bottle for a long time.
 
Last edited:

Snattlerake

Conservitum Americum
Special Hen
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
21,300
Reaction score
33,572
Location
OKC
Looks Like Mag Dumps are the new tactical move for police:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Woman approached her front door with a gun in hand, unaware of what would happen next <a href="https://t.co/qOtGHryZIo">pic.twitter.com/qOtGHryZIo</a></p>&mdash; Crime Net (@TRIGGERHAPPYV1) <a href="">February 21, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


More here:

https://x.com/githii/status/1760427161725345865?s=20

Dahell are they shooting at the rubber plant in the corner? That is what they are hitting the most.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom